Asami List Theoryfaux

[InvokeChaos]

Another list for feedback!

So I have run this list a few times actually, unlike a couple of my other ones where I was looking for feedback before using it. And I must say it's a lot of fun. The core is Asa, Anna and Hannah. I rotate out the rest of the list as needed by try to always include one source of healing/condition removal, which normally ends up being a low river monk, Chiaki if I can fit her in. I was running with Tannen and he was fun and cool to have in, but I didn't feel he was "necessary" and I'd rather Chiaki over him for her utility. The upgrades on Anna and Hannah are more for Obsidian Oni heals than anything else.

Drawing 9 cards every round, even pitching two of them, feels GREAT. I totally understand the Lilith, Primordial, Wings of Darkness thing now. I mean, I got it before, but doing it yourself... totally changes how amazing it is. With all the TNs on Asami and her summoning... it's SO good.

Anywho.

What I really like about this list so far is that it's got consistent options. Hannah can copy off Monk, Anna and Chiaki for heals, condition removal or consistent damage as needed. Swirling Damned is AMAZING on Anna, and that horror duel pulse can be devastating end of turn when cards are low in the control hand. Yokai are superstars, and yes even while hired. I often complete Convict Labor in one turn thanks to them. My summons are almost never slow now, thanks to Chiaki, Hannah and LRM. And because of the hand fixing, I am summoning much more consistently now. 

I have considered dropping Smoke Grenades for another SS in the cache. But I really really love smoke grenades. And Anna and Hannah tend to be fairly near to each other.

That is definitely what I would call the weakness of this list... lack of a heavy melee beater/tank and it's kind of a bubble. But with the Yokai, I have some really strong offense, Anna and Hanna are doing min dam 3, and my hand fixing let's me summon in what I need to throw in my opponent's face.

So far, it seems to be working alright. Still puzzling it out. If I look to replace anyone it's definitely Hannah, Anna is too useful in this list, and has proven that time and time again. She's the closest to an auto-include I have so far next to Chiaki.

But that's all I got right now, lemme know what you guys think and what directions maybe I should try going in  

 

[Gottkaiser]

I need to go through this again the next days, but I liked Anna from the day I saw her in the book. Looking at the list, I must admit I never considered hiring Yokai. I can just summon them in if need be. And, being summoned and dying sooner or later anyway, I can toss them at my opponent and never mind them being slaughtered. Have you considered exchanging them for something like ten thunders brothers?

[InvokeChaos]

I have actually. But I find that they provide so much being able to be out with flicker 5. 

Combining ephemeral warriors eith their 0 action to lower flick to interact they match the scheme running potential of a 10T bro. They have a more consistent 3" place, and can double move and interact. For a total of like 14" of movement (place is not completely within). 10T bros can only interact with about 9" movement. 

They also are far more killy than a bro, but much less stalwart. 

If it was a guard the stash, I probably would take the bros instead because I need staying power.

Ultimately if you need utility and staying power, stick with bros. You want mobile death dealing schemers, go with Yokai.

Their placement shenanigans are just so good and I find that my scheme runners tend to be gone by turn 3 or so anyways depending on my opponent, so their drawback of flickering out isn't a big deal for me. 

[qoob]

I like your list @InvokeChaos. The 7 cards + 2x Rush of Magic is really really great. Had the Red Joker 3 times from the start.

I would like to add Yasunori to the crew because he has some great synergy with Asami imo. The question is what can I drop for him? I'm thinking of either Hannah or Lovelace but i'm not sure. Can you help me out?

[Eclipse]

If you do that @qoob, then I think the list changes altogether. Though this is just in theory since I have no experience with Asami

[daniello_s]

I was tinkering about Asami and I came up with something like that:

Asami (6SS pool) - Heavenly Design, Feign Weakness

Amanjaku

Ohaguro - Smoke Grenades

Yasunori - Equality

Katanaka Sniper

Katanaka Sniper

Yokai

The idea is to have Snipers to harass enemy scheme runners and it they were to be threaten by enemy beatstick they should have a fast support from Yasunori. Equality should help Yasunori stay on the table a bit longer. Yokai would start scheme running and would be joined by 2 Yokai summoned by Asami on turn 1. Ohaguro would be used as additional harassing piece and 'bodyguard' for Asami (if needed). 

Not sure if that works but it looks not bad and is quite cheap start (maybe 1-2 Jorogumo would be needed and 1-2 Obsidian Oni just for Asami to summon apart of Yokai).

 

[Nukemouse]

May i ask why Yokai over Tengu as scheme runners?

[InvokeChaos]

35 minutes ago, Nukemouse said:

May i ask why Yokai over Tengu as scheme runners?

TL;DR Tengu are solid but just outclassed by Yokai, even accounting for being 1pt cheaper.

So tengu work best in pairs (or with a models that drop rampant scheme markers) offering their biggest mobility with marker jumping each other. This isn't the only time they are useful, but it does two things:

1) Encourages them to be grouped up for maximum potential or for you to be using AP to drop scheme markers in your backfield to give them extra movement.

2) Allows them to cover a tremendous amount of board while littering scheme markers in the process.

Now Asami likes her scheme markers, mostly to chomp on them, so there is some synergy here. But in general, they aren't really "giving" her anything but a cheap scheme runner. They have flight. They have a decent walk. Their 0 action is amazing, just absolutely awesome (at least in the right scheme pools). And their ability to pop regen 1/2 on something is actually pretty damn useful, especially with all the hard to kill models we sport. But where I lose them in favor of yokai are in their non-scheme utility and their dependence.

Yokai are completely autonomous. They don't need a second model to facilitate anything. They can put out a surprising amount of damage. In a direct comparison: 

1) Yokai walk, Tengu fly the same distance.

2) Yokai have a reliable place within 3" (potentially multiple times a turn), Tengu have a place that requires an AP or ability to have triggered.

3) Tengu have lower Df/Wp and just aren't nearly as combat effective.

4) Tengu can remove scheme markers for a 0, where Yokai can interact on a 0.

If I knew I was facing a colette or Titania, I probably would reach for the Tengu. Or if it was stake your claim, because they can leapfrog and ignore terrain, allowing one to enable the other for dropping that claim marker. But even in stake your claim, a yokai can move 18" turn 1 (double walk for 10", 2x place within 3"). Then just use his place at the end of each subsequent turn to warp to a new claim position.

I guess long story short, Tengu are really good, but just out classed by the Yokai. A Yokai on the charge takes out a silurid. A tengu on the charge ties one up and gets gobbled up the following turn. Neither are stalwart, so if your opponent is scheme runner hunting, Yokai are faster and just a tiny bit tougher to take down.

[InvokeChaos]

8 hours ago, daniello_s said:

I was tinkering about Asami and I came up with something like that:

Asami (6SS pool) - Heavenly Design, Feign Weakness

Amanjaku

Ohaguro - Smoke Grenades

Yasunori - Equality

Katanaka Sniper

Katanaka Sniper

Yokai

The idea is to have Snipers to harass enemy scheme runners and it they were to be threaten by enemy beatstick they should have a fast support from Yasunori. Equality should help Yasunori stay on the table a bit longer. Yokai would start scheme running and would be joined by 2 Yokai summoned by Asami on turn 1. Ohaguro would be used as additional harassing piece and 'bodyguard' for Asami (if needed). 

Not sure if that works but it looks not bad and is quite cheap start (maybe 1-2 Jorogumo would be needed and 1-2 Obsidian Oni just for Asami to summon apart of Yokai).

 

I personally am not a big fan of Black Betty with Asami, as they both are hungry for cards. Especially with "only" 7 models in your crew. I would probably remove her for a yokai and maybe throw in a wastrel or monk of low river for healing and utility. Betty + grenades and going down to cache 5 = 9pts to work with. So there's options. Chiaki is a consideration, as her ranged condition removal and heal is really valuable for Asami's summons and to keep yasunori pumped. Snipers can zone out whole areas, but with a good terrain board, they don't have those lanes of control that just can keep the opponent out. 

Like the list though, may have to give it a shot myself! I have yet to run snipers with Asami.

[InvokeChaos]

On 11/8/2016 at 4:21 AM, qoob said:

I like your list @InvokeChaos. The 7 cards + 2x Rush of Magic is really really great. Had the Red Joker 3 times from the start.

I would like to add Yasunori to the crew because he has some great synergy with Asami imo. The question is what can I drop for him? I'm thinking of either Hannah or Lovelace but i'm not sure. Can you help me out?

You can drop hannah for a direct swap. Yasunori is conveniently 12 and Hannah + grenades is as well. You lose a bit of that fun synergy, but going down to 6 cards again is pretty much nullified by Scales of Heaven and his Great Sage ability.

This is actually my current choice to try out, because I've been finding I don't have a solid answer to beaters. Hannah is great, but she is also a support piece that can be a midfield model. Without a dedicated ranged attack, she relies on copying Anna, Chiaki or Obsidian Oni for effects. While i'm generally ok with this, I just really feel I need a model that makes my opponent stop and go... crap, I can't just get too close to that. And a Charge 10", flying beatstick that does 4 attacks with  on attack and reach 2"... well that just fits the bill. Especially when I can move him 6" into position near Asami and then still get that beautiful 1AP charge off. We are talking 18" of threat!

My only concern is that he has Stubborn, Armor 1 and average Df for his please don't kill me. Good amount of wounds, but I have to say I really want Equality on this guy. So I'd jump that off Asami on to him, and just be a little more careful on how often you're pinging Asa for that charge. Obsidian Oni are great with him, because they can just pitch a dead card to heal 2 on him if he has Equality. But the real make you cry situation is Terracotta Warrior. Remember that Ancient Protection is a may ( )  so you can pop it on early, and just wait for that inevitable severe or red joker damage flip to just go... "nope."

They don't have any real synergy otherwise with my list, but one positive is that they can pitch hidden agenda or peaceful waters if need be to give you some better upgrades. (UPDATE THANKS TO @Eclipse). Or if your monk gets focused down because your opponent realizes that two ranged healing flips that drop scheme markers is pretty damn good (this is still something to take note of in general, despite not having the previously thought of synergy with terracotta).

I would also consider dropping out equality mid-game for a recalled training to make sure that last charge of Yasunori does the deed. And best part is you can just swap out a yokai for one and laugh maniacally... or something.

Edited November 11, 2016 by InvokeChaos
ability clarification

[Eclipse]

2 hours ago, InvokeChaos said:

They don't have any real synergy otherwise with my list, but one positive is that they can pitch hidden agenda or peaceful waters if need be to give you some better upgrades.

Unfortunately, the Terracottas can't swap 0ss upgrades (my Samurai are crying with abandon in the dark corner of the room right now).
Other than that, very solid ideas. A real eye-opener towards the value of Low Rivers with the new upgrade, to be sure.

[MagicGis]

The first List on the page is nearly what I  Play with at the Moment.

 

The only changes are:

- Grasping Strands on Asami  instead of Equality. I like equality but the Crew tends to bubble up the first few turns and shoot out Oni.  Anna blocks a lot of stuff, tempting People to Charge in where Strands just provides another layer of stuff they need to consider. Also I feel the heal is less needed in this Setup though the other Options are nice too.

- Upgrades on Hannah and Chisaki switched (feels saver that way for me)

- Emissary instead of 2 Yokai. I feel the emissary makes the death ball much more of a threat. Fast min dmg 3 Beaters are way more scary, as are Focus 2 attacks. Sure she has no upgrade but the Standard one helps her summons, and allows to later cycle. Or you can place Equality or smoke grenades here.  Thanks to the totem he also should be dealt with or maybe Pop his dest Zero twice a game. Also giving Blasts to Focus dmg tracks with Anna, Hannah and a master that can hand out Focus 2 seems rather solid. In Theory her summons also can use every condition option he has.  Sure pushes you down to 7 models but... well..

[InvokeChaos]

On 11/10/2016 at 3:54 AM, Eclipse said:

Unfortunately, the Terracottas can't swap 0ss upgrades (my Samurai are crying with abandon in the dark corner of the room right now).
Other than that, very solid ideas. A real eye-opener towards the value of Low Rivers with the new upgrade, to be sure.

Ah, good catch, I forgot about that. I will amend my post to avoid confusion.

[InvokeChaos]

On 11/10/2016 at 8:10 AM, MagicGis said:

The first List on the page is nearly what I  Play with at the Moment.

 

The only changes are:

- Grasping Strands on Asami  instead of Equality. I like equality but the Crew tends to bubble up the first few turns and shoot out Oni.  Anna blocks a lot of stuff, tempting People to Charge in where Strands just provides another layer of stuff they need to consider. Also I feel the heal is less needed in this Setup though the other Options are nice too.

- Upgrades on Hannah and Chisaki switched (feels saver that way for me)

- Emissary instead of 2 Yokai. I feel the emissary makes the death ball much more of a threat. Fast min dmg 3 Beaters are way more scary, as are Focus 2 attacks. Sure she has no upgrade but the Standard one helps her summons, and allows to later cycle. Or you can place Equality or smoke grenades here.  Thanks to the totem he also should be dealt with or maybe Pop his dest Zero twice a game. Also giving Blasts to Focus dmg tracks with Anna, Hannah and a master that can hand out Focus 2 seems rather solid. In Theory her summons also can use every condition option he has.  Sure pushes you down to 7 models but... well..

In my meta, seven models gets punished, but otherwise I like it. I generally have Chisaki and Hannah in range of each other, so yeah, those upgrades are absolutely interchangeable. Chisaki tends to survive longer in my games, so Hannah gets the defensive tech. 

How do you like Grasping Strands? I've run it a few times, but find that I'm often against crews that shoot, cast or both... and the anti-charge rarely comes into effect. When it does its golden, but that extra healing on Asami just is so clutch pretty much every game I find. I do really like the Emissary and think the synergy is clutch.

On a semi-related note (the emissary specifically) I've been theory crafting a burning list with Asami, just in that vein. Obsidian Oni's damage track is obscene if you have burning on the target, and they fuel Asami's summons amazingly well. I've been looking at doing something like running a dawn serpent and the emissary as my big models, then 2-3 obsidian oni. Dawn Serpent loves the obsidian oni, and focus 2 on a model that blasts and hands out fire seems legit. The bonus of the two dragons chilling side by side is amazing, for blasts or just the  Emissary would grant the Dawn Serpent.  If you go on the concept of a death ball here you are looking at all of your oni and the serpent getting  on attacks, and the oni getting the same on damage for any burning targets. Asami can continue to support with her mobility and summons and the other 4 just walk up and say hi. 

My only real "issue" is no target for the emissary's push. So I would want to maybe look at another enforcer, maybe a yamazaki for the back line and her brace yari... she also has blasts and doles out some punch... still working it through though. I'll let you guys know when I finish crafting and piloting in.

Any tips on mercs or other models that might synergize well with the burning concept without costing too heavily? Rail Workers popped into my head at one point, but I think I'm solid on the minion front...

[newsun]

Kaimitachi hands out burning with discards.

Shenlong comes to mind with high river style. And though you are good in minions, high river monks have some synergy.

Mei Feng, emberling, rail golem, kang, willie, komainu, mech pork, sparks, rail workers, metal gamin

The last section has me thinking I'll look to the foundry to make my burning list.

[InvokeChaos]

Was looking to keep it in Asami, but now that you point it out, that core can kind of work anywhere. Hmmmm...

I still think I would try it in Asami first, so she can continue to summon in yokai and the odd jorogumo. But shenlong and mccabe sound really good for this too. Especially mccabe, who loves the wonder weasel already. 

May have to move this thought to another thread. Thanks @newsun!!

[Eclipse]

7 hours ago, InvokeChaos said:

Any tips on mercs or other models that might synergize well with the burning concept without costing too heavily? Rail Workers popped into my head at one point, but I think I'm solid on the minion front...

The Freikorps Specialist also has blasts and burning on the attack (and unlike the Dawn Serpent can give Burning+? with the blasts as well!) and he would greatly benefit from some added mobility/pushes. I've been thinking of playing him with Shenlong, Dawn Serpent and Obsidians, but it seemed like none of them need the (0) Focus much. Now that Asami is out, I might think of integrating those guys in her list instead. Oh, and the Kamaitachi pushes and gives Burning, too

[MagicGis]

On ‎12‎.‎11‎.‎2016 at 0:14 AM, InvokeChaos said:

In my meta, seven models gets punished, but otherwise I like it. I generally have Chisaki and Hannah in range of each other, so yeah, those upgrades are absolutely interchangeable. Chisaki tends to survive longer in my games, so Hannah gets the defensive tech. 

How do you like Grasping Strands? I've run it a few times, but find that I'm often against crews that shoot, cast or both... and the anti-charge rarely comes into effect. When it does its golden, but that extra healing on Asami just is so clutch pretty much every game I find. I do really like the Emissary and think the synergy is clutch.

On a semi-related note (the emissary specifically) I've been theory crafting a burning list with Asami, just in that vein. Obsidian Oni's damage track is obscene if you have burning on the target, and they fuel Asami's summons amazingly well. I've been looking at doing something like running a dawn serpent and the emissary as my big models, then 2-3 obsidian oni. Dawn Serpent loves the obsidian oni, and focus 2 on a model that blasts and hands out fire seems legit. The bonus of the two dragons chilling side by side is amazing, for blasts or just the  Emissary would grant the Dawn Serpent.  If you go on the concept of a death ball here you are looking at all of your oni and the serpent getting  on attacks, and the oni getting the same on damage for any burning targets. Asami can continue to support with her mobility and summons and the other 4 just walk up and say hi. 

My only real "issue" is no target for the emissary's push. So I would want to maybe look at another enforcer, maybe a yamazaki for the back line and her brace yari... she also has blasts and doles out some punch... still working it through though. I'll let you guys know when I finish crafting and piloting in.

Any tips on mercs or other models that might synergize well with the burning concept without costing too heavily? Rail Workers popped into my head at one point, but I think I'm solid on the minion front...

If you wanna play around with Burning I would go to Mei. She has easy Access to some of the Support and Profits herself with positive Flips.

She also likes scrap and minions and can work well with toshiro.

 

I could post a list that I used a bit ago but that would derail the Topic... ^^

In General I think Obsidian Oni in many cases are better hires than summons. If they die from flicker they do not explode, and I want some high Cards for triggers on attacks etc. the 10+ Region seems solid for that, with 13th and if you have tannen  11+ per turn turning into Jorogumo.

I experimented with Chisaki and the totem out as well as smoke grenandes (instead hidden on Hannah for emissary pushes and fast) for another low river + tannen. It was a bit one dimensional, and requires a set up activation, but allows to turn this low moderates into Yokai.

I think it Plays quite different though. So if you are happy with your core I would not recommend this Change.

The 7 activations to start I think is not a big deal for asami. If you really want you can always spam out a few yokai early in the turn. If it is an issue to be outactivated she can usually avoid being outactivated against most normal Crews, and can allow them to go first on t1. Some Gremlins Hamelin Kirai sure not but most of the time one model would not make a big difference here.

I find the Emissary provides several important Options:

- The few left over low Cards are seldomly used better than for Focus 2 which can provide one very significant attack

- Fast + push on Hannah and Anna are very significant.

- Blast on Focus attacks is also really worth the mention if your master also Hands out Focus 2... to giant Spiders for example...

- The possibility of 2 times Dest ability and the additional reg, makes the totem higher value too.

- HTK in a Crew with several heal Options

- Another big base to hide Asami behind

I like this Setup because it provides some redundancy to the Support Options. Also it makes the totem a more valuable target.  If you want to shut down the heal you have to Kill Chisaki and The Low River or the upgrade carrier. If you want to shut down the Card Quality you need to go through Hannah and Anna, if you want the Utility down you need Anna the totem and the Emissary dead. It also leaves you with 4 solid but not insane damage dealers in the Group besides summons, which also makes it hard to pick a target. The models are also all good enough on their own to not completely fall appart when Asami falls (though it should be avoided modelcount and so on).

For non blasters you can ball up quite a bit and it is not so easy to go in and survive. This is also where Strands shines I believe. The Thing is, like many Upgrades it is hard to judge. If your Opponent knows what it does, you will seldomly see him Charge in to do one attack unless he needs the movement. So it is hard to judge if it was worth it in a game... after all unless he tells you, you will never know exactly how much your Opponent felt he needed to Play around it. I feel against meele centric groups that allow me to ball up it gives them one more thing to think about.  Also the tigger seems situationally useful. I feel it is often worth the 1ss though I believe thats true for equality too.

 

 

 

[Tapdancer]

Yasunori must always have recall training.  On what is already a threatening  piece RT makes him into a blitz monster that seriously inhibits your oponent. From an endurance perspective the positive to all flips for the turn makes taking him down far more difficult.  Also given after using RT it is far more likely your high value target is dead and your opponent has burnt more cards trying to slow Yasunori down, the counter punch is usually much weaker.

[Tris]

Off topic, so sorry for that, but - it's Chiaki, not Chisaki, the Niece is not amused :/

Thank you

[Kbonn]

8 hours ago, Tapdancer said:

Yasunori must always have recall training.  On what is already a threatening  piece RT makes him into a blitz monster that seriously inhibits your oponent. From an endurance perspective the positive to all flips for the turn makes taking him down far more difficult.  Also given after using RT it is far more likely your high value target is dead and your opponent has burnt more cards trying to slow Yasunori down, the counter punch is usually much weaker.

I disagree, when you start flipping 3 cards per attack, and might have 5 or so attack per turn, you are fishing out your black joker.   Also, I find smoke grenades is extremely helpful on him so he can't be shot down or lured out once he's stuck in.  Not saying smoke is always better, but recalled isn't always the answer.

[Nikodemus]

If I'm doing five awesome attacks a round I don't mind wasting one for black joker. Even if it does hurt when it wastes a red joker. I agree that + is good enough that I wouldn't automatically use my only upgrade slot on an already expensive model to get a round of ++.

There's always Samurai you can use to fish out the joker early on. No idea if Asami list can fit one in though.

[InvokeChaos]

So been running Yasunori in my lists, and so far it's been fantastic. I have all my rezzer models out for painting, so I don't have chiaki (no typos this time) nor anna right now. So I replaced them with yasunori and a jorogumo. 

Good stuff! Yasunori is great, as you would imagine. And the potential threat of attacking three times only to still be able to abuse his 10" charge is just icing. I will say that I have yet to take recalled training and I don't miss it. Here's why:

You have baked in  on attacks already. His damage track is NOT stellar. It's very mediocre, which it had to be for the quantity of attacks he can put out. So I don't really need positives on damage, I just need to hit and do min damage a few times. His defenses benefit from it, but honestly, with a 12wd armor 1 model, he's already hard to shift. Don't need the flips for wp duels because stubborn. And I generally want him to get hit, for his card draw. I like equality on him. Combined with obsidian oni, I can easily heal 4 wds off him a turn. And that is usually enough to get PLENTY of mileage out of him. 

I find that I am missing Anna for the double rush, but not necessarily Hannah. So I think Yasunori is a permanent swap now. I need the beef and a model that the opponent HAS to pay attention to. Asami has too many movement shenanigans that can help reposition him and a 1AP 12" threat charge that ignores terrain is just going to kept him anywhere I want him. My only real concern is the ranged game, so if going against say guild, I would probably give him smoke grenades.

[MrDeathTrout]

How have people been using Ohaguro Bettari? Sometimes I'll charge her in first to give the + to the Oni that will follow, but usually I like to user her late as clean up.  With her charge schenanigans she can get where she needs to be for the final blow.  If she's near Asami I like to charge for 1, hoping I can kill off the charge and then use her last AP to get to a safer posision.  I also like to activate her late since that threat of her charging anything with built in flay and sever of 6 cannot be ignored.  She's a big threat until she activates then she's a big target since she's not that hard to kill.

 

 

[Cadaverousbirth]

49 minutes ago, MrDeathTrout said:

How have people been using Ohaguro Bettari? Sometimes I'll charge her in first to give the + to the Oni that will follow, but usually I like to user her late as clean up.  With her charge schenanigans she can get where she needs to be for the final blow.  If she's near Asami I like to charge for 1, hoping I can kill off the charge and then use her last AP to get to a safer posision.  I also like to activate her late since that threat of her charging anything with built in flay and sever of 6 cannot be ignored.  She's a big threat until she activates then she's a big target since she's not that hard to kill.

Betti has become an auto-take for Hunting Party. We usually play with a lot of LoS blocking terrain here so she has lots of places to hide and jump out for a big wallop on something tiny. She's a scary bully. Whenever I have her go up against anything with backup she ends up doing some damage and then getting crushed, but just the threat of her Flay can get people spooked. Speaking of which I actually like to use her early if I have the appropriate severe in hand not being used for summons. A dead model can't score

I haven't used her ability to deny charges/can only walk towards her yet. Usually she can't see anyone to get it off or is too far from the big beaters (again, hiding) to help with that.