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Sandeep experiences so far?


Anung Un Rama

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@crimzzen - generalist upgrade deck 2 is just hitting stores. (example: http://www.atomicempire.com/item.aspx?item=209226&utm_source=psw&gclid=CKi338H6xs8CFQ6MaQodAdEHMQ )

*not promoting this store over any of the others you can find it at, don't know that I've ever shopped there before, just showing that it has been hitting shelves in the last couple of days. I know our LGS has them too

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Questions about his summonings. Which upgrade is better To Behold Another Plane or To Command Another Plane, or are they just as good?

 

I have three games with him and I can´t make good or bad list for him. He has bonuses with academics, but not so great that you can´t take other models with him. It is so much about how to use models on the board. That makes him very interesting master to play, half of turns I forgot something to do with him, or with beacon. I don´t know yet how powerful he is, too damn versatile. I myself like to use Valedictorian with him, that is only must have.

 

Summa summarum: Sandeep is something player need to practice, to build routine with him. No certain build is greater, but key is flexible minded player.

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19 minutes ago, Daimoniodes said:

Questions about his summonings. Which upgrade is better To Behold Another Plane or To Command Another Plane, or are they just as good?

It really depends on  what your schemes are.  However, having said that I find myself taking Behold way more than Command so far.  The Visions giving so much Interact control gives something that may not appear strong right off the bat but wow they're great.  For example, you can summon in a model with Visions of Wind to Interact the turn it's summoned, then have it take a walk action and then use Sandeep's (0) As Your Deed, So Your Destiny to Interact right away - with the option to do it while engaged, or with a push for even more distance on it.  Just think of having Set Up, summoning in a model with Visions of Wind with the above actions (taking the do it while engaged trigger) and summoning a Visions Of Fire model who (1) Interacts while engaged with the model.  That's two Scheme Markers by the model in question, which you can do from really decent distance away and probably pretty late in the turn too for some basically guaranteed VP.

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  • 5 weeks later...

I tried something new with Sandeep last weekend. I made a note card grid with his extra action and four cast actions in a column and turns numbers as the row. It made it super simple to keep track of what I had used for the turn, and gave me the added benefit of easily seeing which turns I didn’t use him to his full potential at the end of the game.

On a side note Kudra can take a huge amount of punishment with a little bit of luck. I had a game where she took out a Shadow Emissary, and prevented 10 damage with two stones and two cards from my hand ending the game with over half her life still.

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Played Commands Sandeep into Summoning Dreamer.

 

It was a very complicated game with killy schemes in the pool. Summoned an Immune to Slow Banasuva later in the turn when both of our hands were already depleted (so not being able to cheat did not matter) with Kudra still waiting to activate and a high Crow in hand, with the :+fate from Arcane Conflux on Emissary and :+fate from the Sandeep-summoned Metal Gamin... he was a wrecking ball and drew a ton of fire in my opponent's next activation (he mobbed it with enforcers trying to bring it down for Hunting Party, but with limited cheat potential could not make the attacks stick enough damage), only for me to move Kudra up and use her (0) to kill Banasuva outright, splashing fire and burning onto the nightmares around him while denying him Hunting Party.

I mentioned it was complicated, right? I messed up the order of activations a couple of times, but still had incredible control of the board throughout the game. One of the activation order things I wanted to do but got caught up in the summoning shenanigans was to use the Beacon-triggered (1) action to make the Emissary Incorporeal and chain-activate into the Emissary, who would pitch a card for further action delegation and charge through the line of models and terrain to blast away Convict Labor scheme markers and attack an enforcer. I forgot my own plan and ended up summoning in a new Gamin instead, setting up the ghost-charge later in the turn when it would do less to restrict my opponent's movements.

I've heard about the tanking power of an Incorporeal Joss.. The threat of an Incorporeal Emissary is just nuts, especially if you're using buried Wind Gamin to shunt him into position. It should be once per activation, it really should. Two Wind Gamin gave me 10" in pushes on an Incorporeal model with a 10" charge and 2" reach. Doing something similar with Howard Langston would also be nuts.

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13 hours ago, Razorbunnie said:

I tried something new with Sandeep last weekend. I made a note card grid with his extra action and four cast actions in a column and turns numbers as the row. It made it super simple to keep track of what I had used for the turn, and gave me the added benefit of easily seeing which turns I didn’t use him to his full potential at the end of the game.

That's literally what inspired me to finally get around to making tokens (seen here).  I just have the spells that are available on the board, take them off when they're used, and put them back at the start of the next turn.  It's really handy and guarantees you don't forget what you have and haven't used.

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17 hours ago, spooky_squirrel said:

One of the activation order things I wanted to do but got caught up in the summoning shenanigans was to use the Beacon-triggered (1) action to make the Emissary Incorporeal

 

One thing... I'm reading Beacon and says: 'Other friendly non-Peon models within 12" and LoS may take Ca Action PRINTED ON THIS MODEL STAT CARD at -1 Ca during their Activations...'

So you can't Beacon 'The formless Mantra' because it's an upgrade and is't printed on Sandeep, it's true?

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4 minutes ago, Fictor said:

 

One thing... I'm reading Beacon and says: 'Other friendly non-Peon models within 12" and LoS may take Ca Action PRINTED ON THIS MODEL STAT CARD at -1 Ca during their Activations...'

So you can't Beacon 'The formless Mantra' because it's an upgrade and is't printed on Sandeep, it's true?

Yep, can't beacon spells on his upgrades, only his card.

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15 minutes ago, Fictor said:

 

One thing... I'm reading Beacon and says: 'Other friendly non-Peon models within 12" and LoS may take Ca Action PRINTED ON THIS MODEL STAT CARD at -1 Ca during their Activations...'

So you can't Beacon 'The formless Mantra' because it's an upgrade and is't printed on Sandeep, it's true?

I think he's referring to the 1ap action Sandeep is allowed to take when a beaconed ability has a tome in the casting duel.

I have a query regarding silent ones, now I'm not a huge fan of them anyway, but people were talking about copying his actions with a silent one and then ice mirroring them through a well placed acolyte. I gave this a try, and it results in ca4 spells? (-1 for beacon, -1 for mirror) this resulted in needing 7's to get anything cast, and any attacking spell was pretty much useless. The only work I got from it was using the lure type action to drag Sandeep toward the acolyte, which was a lot of investment for very little gain, did I play this right?

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22 minutes ago, Fictor said:

 

One thing... I'm reading Beacon and says: 'Other friendly non-Peon models within 12" and LoS may take Ca Action PRINTED ON THIS MODEL STAT CARD at -1 Ca during their Activations...'

So you can't Beacon 'The formless Mantra' because it's an upgrade and is't printed on Sandeep, it's true?

 

Yes, but on the :+fate, Sandeep himself can take a (1) action. The reason I had been planning it was because I was (erroneously) thinking "action, I could use Sandeep to make him incorporeal" until several  flips later. I picked up the Commands Upgrade and fired off a summons instead of checking his other abilities. After I unraveled myself from the constant summoning idea, I reminded myself that there were other things I was thinking about doing but never checked because I was caught up on the summoning. In hindsight review, when I'm not on the table trying to figure out how to unravel my opponent's schemes, I can double check things, like the fact The Formless Mantra is a (0) and thus not a legitimate AP use off of the Beacon once-per-turn bonus.

 

8 minutes ago, Ampers&nd said:

I think he's referring to the 1ap action Sandeep is allowed to take when a beaconed ability has a tome in the casting duel.

I have a query regarding silent ones, now I'm not a huge fan of them anyway, but people were talking about copying his actions with a silent one and then ice mirroring them through a well placed acolyte. I gave this a try, and it results in ca4 spells? (-1 for beacon, -1 for mirror) this resulted in needing 7's to get anything cast, and any attacking spell was pretty much useless. The only work I got from it was using the lure type action to drag Sandeep toward the acolyte, which was a lot of investment for very little gain, did I play this right?

With the reductions on AV, you'll want some way to get positive flips or force your opponent onto negatives for opposed duels. Other than that, not sure what you would be hoping to get out of that? Teleported a lot further up the board than you can walk as a (0)?

 

 

6 minutes ago, Fictor said:

Yes, I check that, but  'The formless Mantra' it's a (0) and can't be done with that xD

This was something I noticed long after finishing the game, not long after I remembered that I was trying to figure out a way to get the Emissary Incorporeal early in the turn but still have Sandeep's activation towards the end of the turn. Fortunately it never actually came up.

 

I have since figured out that if I want to do something like that, then I'll want Sandeep to end up in Beacon range of a model that's somewhere near where the Emissary will end up, Formless Mantra the Emissary, use his AP, then in the subsequent activation pitch a card for Flesh and Metal, charge, use the activation on that non-leader model to Beacon, flip/cheat/use ability with built in :tome on that Beacon, then use that second 'free' action for a later-turn summoning.

It's too complicated to pull off in a competitive game, but it does make for some interesting activation control.

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Both my opponent and I ended up rehashing the game afterwards (independently of each other) and trying to figure out ways to not cross ourselves up. I don't normally have control and summoning on the table at the same time and he's never played a summoner, let alone playing one into a summoner, before.

For me, I need some way to keep track of legal Beacon uses and what Sandeep can do as his follow up; as well as notes on things that did not work as well as I had hoped: +3" on the Fire Gamin's shooting attack doesn't matter if nothing is unengaged and in LoS, but +1:melee for a Banasuva summoned into the middle of some minions can allow him to engage them without being engaged by them--forcing my opponent to use precious AP to get close enough to fight back (and get splashed when Banasuva dies) or risk the AP trying to walk away from him. If my opponent has constructs, the Metal Gamin's magnetism is an attack action, so the upgrade for :+fate in an aura for the tradeoff of no attack actions is not automatically for the Metal Gamin--I might be better off putting it on the Wind Gamin. If my opponent doesn't kill it for me, I get bonuses with all the Gamin around it. If they do 'kill' it, I get a buried model that can push something important on its way back to the summoning tray.

The idea of a note card with markers for that information is a good one, and will end up with less scribbles than my notebook.

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I'm pretty sure in one of my first games I accidentally used the Incorporeal with Student of All as well.  I find Sandeep's a master where you have to keep a ton of things on your mind, so early mistakes like that make sense.  This might be a handy little thing to keep as a sheet for Sandeep players:

Beacon - Available Abilities

[Attack] (1) Arcane Storm

[Attack] (1) The Mind Among The Senses

[Tactical] (0) The Path To Salvation

[Tactical] (0) As Your Deed, So Your Destiny

Student of All - Available Abilities

[Attack] (1) Gada

[Attack] (1) Arcane Storm

[Attack] (1) The Mind Among The Senses

[Tactical] (1) The Behold Another World / Command Another Plane (upgrade)

[Tactical] (1) Action Through Inaction (upgrade)

[Tactical] (1) The Sight Beyond (upgrade)

Non-model specific abilities such as Walk, Interact, etc.

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Well my experiences for Sandeep so far have been very impressive, I won a 16 player local tournament on the weekend playing virtually a fixed list for all my games.

I took:

Sandeep: Commands, Arcane Reservoir, Enlightened Sage

Cassandra: Practiced Production, Smoke and Mirrors

Mech Rider: Well Rehearsed

Silent One

Performer

Ice Gamin

2 Malifaux Raptors

6ss cache

 

For my final game I swapped a Raptor for Arcane Effigy and dropped Well Rehearsed off the Rider considering I was up against ressers in an extraction game with close deployment.

 

There isnt much to say but every single one of the models I took works as a toolbox of sorts with Sandeep adding in extra vectors, my second game I never had a card in hand or SS to summon in Banasuva and he only summoned in one Wind Gamin the entire game but he went on the offensive and killed off several models with Arcane Storm and did a bit of damage with his upgraded Gada.

The final game I even lost Sandeep in turn 2 from a McMourning poison bomb that I thought I had shut down but hadnt but just kept working through the small internal synergies with the crew and didnt commit the Rider until late turn 3 whiel Cassandra just kept being a complete pain bouncing around everywhere.

 

I feel like I need a second hitter but most things function alright, armour at the moment is the list's big weakness.

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I pulled off another tournament win over the weekend with Sandeep. I didn't go in planning on playing a fixed list, but with the strats and scheme pools I never deviated from the following list at all:

50 SS Arcanists Crew
Sandeep Desai + 6 Pool
- To Command Another Plane (1)
- Arcane Reservoir (2)
- Unaligned Sage (1)
Joss (10)
- Warding Runes (1)
- Imbued Energies (1)
Cassandra (8)
- Practiced Production (1)
- Warding Runes (1)
Oxfordian Mage (5)
- Blood Ward (0)
- Temporary Shielding (0)
Oxfordian Mage (5)
- Nemesis Ward (0)
- Temporary Shielding (0)
Oxfordian Mage (5)
- Doom Ward (0)
- Temporary Shielding (0)
Ice Gamin (4)
Malifaux Raptor (3)
 

Round 1: Standard Deployment Strat: Collect the Bounty Schemes: Convict Labor, Take Prisoner, Leave your Mark, Undercover Entourage (Cassandra), Search the Ruins

Round 2: Flank Deployment Strat: Interference Schemes: Convict Labor, Leave your Mark, Show of Force, Neutralize the Leader, Occupy Their Turf

Round 3: Corner Deployment Strat: Stake A Claim Schemes: Convict Labor, Hunting Party, Exhaust Their Forces, Mark for Death, Public Demonstration

Played the first round against Ressers (Seamus), won 8-1. Second round was against Guild (Perdita), won 10-5, Third round was against Outcasts (Viks), won 7-4. Sandeep and this crew are a delightful swiss army knife against almost all comers; as I hadn't played against the Viks in a long while I forgot about the whirlwind of death that is Viktoria of Blood and had Joss, all 3 mages, the Ice Gamin, and a summoned Wind Gamin all killed by her in one activation Turn 2, but the combination of Sandeep, Banasuva, Cassandra, and the Raptor managed to pull off a tough win by focusing on locking down Convict Labor, Stake a Claim, and denying Hunting Party.

 

I am loving the amount of pain that Sandeep and friends can dish out, the amount of damage they can take and keep on going, and the amount of scheming they can get done. He really is a toolbox full of delightful win!

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The list I ran is all about getting a lot of flexiblility in action usage and setting up little mini synergies instead of relying on Academics.

Taking Smoke & Mirrors, Practiced Production, a Performer, Mech Rider and the Raptors were what I could flexibly tackle any marker heavy scheme allowing me to pick Sandeep's Commands upgrade which lets everything hit a bit harder. There is redundancy in the list but through models that can also do different things such as the Raptors can clog things up for Interference and close down shooting support options.

The Silent One is there for incidental healing and a good ranged attack that doesnt have a:ranged and combos with the Ice Gamin who is brought in to aid with turn one summons of Banasuva, gives +1 Dg for nearby frozen heart models and has one more wound than all the other 4ss gamin. Banasuva coming in and then copying frozen heart before he starts swinging gives him min Dg 4 at Ml6 which is nothing to sneeze at.

I almost consider the Mech Rider an auto include with Sandeep for the secondary summons which worst case scenario give you extra little points where Banasuva can show up or the summons just keep up with board and activation control.

Cassandra likewise gives such a solid return on investment for just 1ss more than Kudra

 

I feel Sandeep is gong to end up being a lot like Colette in that the theme crew can work and has great imagery behind it but going outside theme is going to reveal his true strength.

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@osoi I like the list! it's very different than the lists I've been using.  

I had a question about the Malifaux raptors. Do they have some inherent synergy with Sandeep, or are you bringing them regardless of the master? I've used one with Cassandra to throw scheme markers across the table and to potentially tie up enemy schemes. Are there other benefits to them that warrant bringing two?

I'm also curious about "well rehearsed" on the mech rider since the "i'm not dead yet" aura is restricted to living models. Is the push from the scheme markers something you find more beneficial than having IE?

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19 minutes ago, Nutella said:

I had a question about the Malifaux raptors. Do they have some inherent synergy with Sandeep, or are you bringing them regardless of the master? I've used one with Cassandra to throw scheme markers across the table and to potentially tie up enemy schemes. Are there other benefits to them that warrant bringing two?

The Malifaux raptors have no inherent synergy with Sandeep, but Raptor + Cassandra with Practiced Productions =  Leave Your Mark, Covert Breakthrough, and/or Convict Labor are all very easy to accomplish. I do tend to bring the trio of Oxfordian Mages with Sandeep and the buffs they give to a henchman rocking Warding Runes are quite handy to have on Cassandra.

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7 hours ago, Nutella said:

@osoi I like the list! it's very different than the lists I've been using.  

I had a question about the Malifaux raptors. Do they have some inherent synergy with Sandeep, or are you bringing them regardless of the master? I've used one with Cassandra to throw scheme markers across the table and to potentially tie up enemy schemes. Are there other benefits to them that warrant bringing two?

I'm also curious about "well rehearsed" on the mech rider since the "i'm not dead yet" aura is restricted to living models. Is the push from the scheme markers something you find more beneficial than having IE?

Raptors just synergise well with practiced production on Cassandra and are a general really good cheap model that helps keep up activation control and can tie things up. Taking two of them is because it is easy to shut one down from doing schemes but if I am running 2 it is considerably more difficult.

 

Well Rehearsed on the Mech Rider does several things; 1 it always counts towards an upgrade on for show of force even if I am denying it. 2 I have 4 key living models which the save may be useful for. 3 It protects against Detonate the charges or gives extra mobility once she triggers the scheme drop off her attack. Keeping the mech rider mobile I have found is extremely important.

 

I know the list I ran isnt for everyone and it came into this shape after about half a dozen games playing around with different things and really thinking how Sandeep can best assist what models and then what models are good with the toolbox he brings. I am still tweaking things to see if I can get more work out of some other models too. Bringing in Myranda is also quite tempting.

 

Going the academic route is good and you can build some good synergy and combos but you end up spending a lot of stones on stuff that while good can be shut down easier

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Having played the purely themed forces with both Command and Visions, I'm inclined to play him like a cross between Colette and Ramos.

I've gone heavy on the summoning with him and found myself needing a different version of the tools I already had on the field. The trio of Oxfordian Mages can do a lot of work, but they're not always what I want or need on the table. To that end, I've been looking at doing more of the force multiplication stuff, combined with control abilities and misdirection.

Unaligned Sage Sandeep bringing in The Valedictorian gets some extra utility and brutality and the Sanctioned Spellcasters can turn off some control effects from the opponent (helping keep control of positioning and objectives). Add in Cassandra, The Captain, Firestarter, Joss to taste (really, it depends on my Strat/Schemes), with supporting Enforcers/Minions/Peons along the same taste. Then I limit my summoning to pulling in only the tool(s) I need when and where I need.

Guru Sandeep (dialing the minion support up to an 11 to really bring out the best in them) bringing Commands, Emissary with Arcane Conflux, and minions that force multiply internally (Rail Workers, Gunsmiths, Large Steam Arachnids) could be intense, especially in Collect the Bounty games. Similar to the Sage, Henchmen selection would be season to taste.

The Wave 4 upgrades (and characters) provide some interesting tools that I want to use more often--mainly to see if they work against people who aren't caught off-guard by them (i.e. Blade and Claw swapping a heavy beater in for a nearly harmless minion).

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