What small box would you add to Ironsides?

[Merellin]

So... I'm flailing arround again.. I want a second Master and while I considerd expanding my gremlins with Wong.. The more I think about it, The more I want a human master and crew box too, For visual and playstyle diferences, And I'm thinking about Ironsides.. But, What small box to add to Ironsides crew box..?

[Ampers&nd]

soulstone miners. she's great with willie, gunsmiths, johan (really good), arachnids and pretty much any other M&SU model in the game, but soulstone miners would be my first pick for two reasons- 1) Unlike the rest of her box they don't need to be in her bubble for optimum carnage, they are a good, self sufficient scheme runner and 2) the ability to give Ironsides even more SS for getting those all important suits is not to be underestimated. 

my second box would be johan/johanna all the way, but personally i think she's the one model all malifaux players should own regardless of faction;) 

[Merellin]

Johan appears to be Outcasts, Can you use Outcasts with Arcanists?

[Adran]

Johan is a Mercenary. Anyone can Hire up to 2 mercenaries in their crew. Each mercenary will cost 1 ss more. 

But despite the extra cost Johan is still very solid. And the Bonus M&SU synergies he has with IRonsides and her crew make him a very good pick for her. 

[Merellin]

Ah, I forgot about mercenaries, Sorry. Still rather new at the game, But it is great fun

[retnab]

Don't forget the Arcane Effigy as well, it's a great piece especially with how many attacks Ironsides can pull off.

[angyi]

I'd consider Union Miners. Relatively cheap scheme runners who actually can be reasonably hitty with Ironsides. Also try and get a Firestarter from somewhere. You can buid one from the 3rd Union Miner, you don't need all 3 of them anyways. He's a game changer piece.

[spooky_squirrel]

Ironsides needs to have a scheme runner or two for when she's being a black hole in the middle of the board, so soulstone miners, Willie (Miss Fire), and The Firestarter are all amazing adds. They've also been mentioned already.

 

If you can spare the 12 points (13 if you want imbued energies), the Mechanical Rider is an extraordinary scheme runner. Her attack drops scheme markers. She can summon 4SS constructs (spiders, metal/fire/ice gamin) as a zero action with a built in push. Toss on the aforementioned upgrade and she's running fast and hard up a flank where nothing else is for a turn or two (the more time passes, the harder she is to kill), dropping minions that can score and killing scheme runners that are avoiding Ironsides' bubble.

The other thing that looks tempting is the Emissary with Ironclad Conflux (for 10SS), because it can help get people into 2" engagement with Toni before she activates (and thus boost her adrenaline faster) and with a discard prompt one of your non-leaders. It's also good at scrubbing schemes and corpse markers if you're worried about those. It might be a little bit of a trap if you're not playing into something that needs this extra work specifically.

Neither of these enforcers will get much out of her bubble of focus, but they don't need it and it leaves them free to roam the board causing mischief (until/unless you need the Emissary drawing people into Toni, but that's something you should only need 1-2 times at most. Either Ironsides will be dead or your opponent has put everything they can outside of the Emissary's bubble range and has resigned to the fact that a portion of their crew is in a bar fight until they win or die).

[dancater]

Depends on budget.  Ironsides wants M&SU, likes durable models and some healing and needs scheme runners.

For other crew boxes Ramos is absolute gold Joss is superb, Howard is a monster and the spiders are great cheap M&SU scheme runners and all around useful.

Kaeris box is solid as the Firestarter is very good and M&SU.  Colette box contain Cassandra and Performers both useful though not M&SU.  The other boxes are less immediately and obviously useful (Raspy, Sandeep, Mei Feng, Marcus).

For non-box crew models... I'd go first group:

• Gunsmiths ranged M&SU can scheme/anti scheme some intereting tricks with Ironsides
• Steam Arachnids M&SU, tough, nasty in melee and can scheme/anti scheme in a pinch
• Arcane Effigy is cheap and simply damn useful
• (Merc) Johan is amazing in Ironsides crew and you won't regret the merc tax, M&SU, buffs, condition removal, healing what is not to love. Oh and hits hard to
• Soulstone Miner is probably Ironsides best pure scheme runner
• Willie, love the bomb-barrow but I honestly thing there are several better choices at this cost in Ironsides, may be tier 1.5

Second tier

• Arcane Emissary is solid
• Silent Ones are great healers
• December Acolytes may be one of the best minions for cost in the game
• Raptors because they are 3SS fly and are as aggravating as hell (but they cannot run schemes in Ironsides crew)
• Union Miners are a solid M&SU model and scheme runner
• Mech Rider is the best rider and can summon spiders or metal gamin
• Metal Gamin tough little buggers (Still despite the infamous cuddle) and M&SU, but slow
• Wind Gamin can be brought in for tricks, but not terribly synergistic and quite expensive for what they bring Ironsides

Also consider the Crossroads 7 as Envy is very, very good.  There is a number of mercenary models who can support Ironsides, notably Anna Lovelace is a great movement tricks model and can really lockdown the Ironsides bubble, Hannah is also very good and provides solid tricks but expensive, Freikorps Trapper because the sniper is good in near any crew, Hans because he is also a great sniper and Ironsides crew really benefits from a stand back ranged killer.  

[Jordon]

I feel like the best bang for your buck has to be Johan. She's worth the mere tax in just about any list and is worth way above her cost with Ironsides. She can heal massive amounts of damage with Ironsides and has condition removal, which is pretty tough to come by. Lots of wounds and lots of damage for a very modest price. 

Next would probably be Willy because again he's super cheap to buy and does incredible things when benefitting from Hand Picked Men. Positives to damage and blasts go together like chocolate and peanut butter. Overall he's just a really nice ranged option in a typically very melee focused list. 

Those two models will add so much to Ironsides and won't break the bank in the meantime. 

[retnab]

When she releases Amina might be an autoinclude as well, her abilities and passives are pretty incredible with Ironsides' Hand Picked Men.

[Merellin]

So, i finaly decided on everything and I just placed a order for Ironsides crew box, And a box of Gunsmiths. Hoping she will be as fun as she looks

[admiralvorkraft]

She is!

[Jordon]

Be sure to check out the Ironsides thread as there are some good tactics discussed. Overall I feel like Ironsides is a great master once you figure out her strengths and weaknesses but she can have a steep learning curve at the beginning. My advice would be to just stick to it, try different things, and don't be afraid to get her killed (she rarely lives in a good many of my games). In the end you'll be rewarded with a versatile and definitely fun master. 

Also with the addition of her new henchmen in wave 4, I see a lot more possibilities in her future. 

[DrEvilmonki]

On 3/10/2016 at 2:31 PM, Jordon said:

Be sure to check out the Ironsides thread as there are some good tactics discussed. Overall I feel like Ironsides is a great master once you figure out her strengths and weaknesses but she can have a steep learning curve at the beginning. My advice would be to just stick to it, try different things, and don't be afraid to get her killed (she rarely lives in a good many of my games). In the end you'll be rewarded with a versatile and definitely fun master.

I will second that. I played Ironsides as my first master so was learning the game as well, but it took me a good 20 games before everything clicked.

The main bullet points for her are

- her Are you looking at me means the target moves it's charge then makes a (1)Ml attack against her, that isn't any attack, just one using the Ml stat. So gunsmiths and Ox mages can be pushed their charge range with no hit against Ironsides (and check your opponents models s0me, like Perdita, don't have a Ml attack and so her good shot my turn won't work on them).

- Gunsmiths don't always want to relent to Ironsides push, cheat in the rams for fast.

- Don't be scared of getting her in combat and dying, she is there to pull them out of position and she can do it from a long way away.

And again as Jordon said check out her thread, there's lots of good stuff in there.

[spooky_squirrel]

7 hours ago, DrEvilmonki said:

- her Are you looking at me means the target moves it's charge then makes a (1)Ml attack against her, that isn't any attack, just one using the Ml stat. So gunsmiths and Ox mages can be pushed their charge range with no hit against Ironsides (and check your opponents models s0me, like Perdita, don't have a Ml attack and so her good shot my turn won't work on them).

- Gunsmiths don't always want to relent to Ironsides push, cheat in the rams for fast.

- Don't be scared of getting her in combat and dying, she is there to pull them out of position and she can do it from a long way away.

In those other threads mentioned, you'll see other uses of Are you lookin' at me?, such as pulling the Emissary 10" up the board. Her box includes Mouse. Mouse's pull inflicts damage, so Mouse and Gunsmiths and Hand Picked Men all get along in ways that are truly absurd. Just accept the fact that if you don't have the Black Joker in hand, you'll probably see it when your Gunsmith cycles between 12 and 18* cards during its activation.

I've found that if Toni dies pulling people off of objectives and spending their activations dealing with her, the rest of my crew gets to do its job. I've never actually gotten my adrenaline up higher than a 3-4, simply because it's either being burned, or the things she's pulling in are being pulled in to die to a nearby beater like the Rail Golem or Joss (or a sped up, slightly dinged Gunsmith).

 

* to see 18 cards, you need: a burning target or three not in cover, a Gunsmith that flipped or cheated a against Mouse's rope and failed, and to use The Hard Way to get Easy Target versus said burning targets. Don't miss (you're at a triple to hit, so you'll see at a minimum vs. targets in the open 12 cards) and you're getting a single into the damage. Worst case involves tying for the net of a single (18 cards), most common case (unless you're picking on some low Df models or an opponent who cannot or does not want to cheat) involves beating by 1-5 for a straight flip (15 cards), with everything else being just bad news for your opponent (single (18 cards) and double (21 cards) positives).

[Merellin]

I return! Just wanted to leave a short progress report. I just had my first match with Ironsides and it was realy fun! Ironsides vs Som'er. I lost but had much fun, Tried to play agressively and, Suprisingly enough, Ironsides survived! Infact, My entire crew died exept Ironsides and a Gunsmith.. xD I wasent too impressed with the 3 oxfordian mages, They dident do much (Together they killed 1 Slop Hauler and 1 Skeeter, But died before they could do the mission) but I'l try them again next time and see if I do better with them. Ironsides managed to slay Lenny in one turn, From full health. That was fun

Still gotta get better at trying to play the objectives, But I'm having much fun

[DrEvilmonki]

How many mages were you using? Make sure you take the new temporary shielding upgrade even if you don't run all three, it still has damage reduction.
And certainly run them for a number of games before you judge them, I have had them be killed before they did anything but I have had them totally dominate a game. Once they have gone off a couple of times against a particular opponent they can actually change how your opponent plays and that in itself can be an advantage to you. Also remember if Ironsides has warding runes and bllod ward mage is within 10" (and LoS) they can't exhaust you, or bury you, or swill you, etc.

I've had a game where the mages took out the Viktoria master, student of conflict and Vanessa by turn three, I had a game where I pushed my mage with blood ward into bad juju and furiously cast him to death from full health and still had my 0 AP attack in hand.

I still need to get a Librarian, an academic who can heal, buffing the mages and keeping them alive, priceless.

[Merellin]

I was using all 3 Mages and, Where do you find this new temporary shielding upgrade? I dont think I saw anything like that with the cards I got when I bought the crewbox..

[spooky_squirrel]

It's in the Wave 4 book Ripples of Fate. It also appears in the generalist upgrades 2 box.

[Merellin]

Ah, We only own the rule book and model boxes so far, Havent gotten to the other books, Or extra upgrade card boxes yet.. Might have to look into getting them.

 

 

Edit: Actualy, I'm considering maybe getting Ramos when I next get payed as stuff from his box is suposed to be good with Ironsides (And other Arcanists boxes) so I wanted to ask, And dident want to start a new topic for it, Is Ramos good as a non summoning Master? (Since if I buy his box to get stuff for Ironsides, I'l have him to, So miht aswell use him then)

[Ampers&nd]

not really, ramos is almost pure summoner, he can run a support build (sort of) but even then he's not great. His summoning is excellent though. Joss and Ironsides are a beautiful thing, Joss with warding runes and the mages giving him condition immunity, regen etc and gaining the benefit from handpicked men is just deadly, (and though it means sacrificing his speed to stay in the bubble, Howard is utterly lethal with ironsides) 

[Adran]

Well he can only spend 1 AP a turn summoning, (plus his 0 if you really want), and he can only summon spiders (and the electrical creation on a 0), so whilst I would strongly suggest planning each turn around how many spiders he will summon, you still have at least 2 other AP to use. You can happily just summon the spiders that you get in the box, and that'll normally cover most of his game summoning.