New player

[Kaos]

Howdy,

I'm a potential new player and I had a quick look at the rules and some video of games on youtube.

I see there are very different choices in this game to make and mostly isn't about the faction you want to play but about the master. 

As factions, on a aesthetic side,  I liked Neverborn and probably Guild. But looks like they don't really match what I like to play.

So in choosing a faction, this is what I look at. Hope you can help me to make the right choice:

1) Unique gameplay. I usually don't like to play what every one else does and I like more to play something with strange mechanics. I think gunlines are extremely boring, so I generally avoid shooty armies. I usually like armies with few hard to kill elite units more than armies that swarm the table. 

2) Strength. No one wants to be steamrolled. I know there are players who don't mind to lose as long as they play a characterful army. I'm not really one of them. I like to have something kinda competitive. If you need to lose the first 5 or 10 games, be it. But having impossible match ups and being tabled without any chance of retaliation isn't something I really like.

3) Aesthetic. Highly subjective this, but I like to play something I kinda like how it looks. At the moment all looks nice to me so I do not have any prejudice against any army in particular. I liked most neverborn but it looks like isn't really the army for me, since it's really about glass cannons. 

So looking and looking, I was mostly attracted by Leveticus. I has a unique playstyle and I liked the mix of steampunk and carcasses he can field. Also he is a completely mad scientist so it's a bonus. The problem is  I heard he was Cuddled hard and is lacking on the competitive side, also that is a very difficult master for a new player. Since I'm not new from wargames (I'm a quite competitive warmahordes player) I think I can handle it. Also I don't mind to lose my first games as long as I have fun with crazy interactions.

Would you suggest it, is the base box any good? Which alternatives I have?

 

Thanks in advance for your replies.

[admiralvorkraft]

Leveticus is still decidedly top-tier, he's just not the flat out best option in the game in all strategy and scheme pools (he probably wasn't before either, but he was close).

Starting with Levi's box, Bishop, Johan, and Convict Gunslingers you should be good for a long time. You will want to expand your collection (probably) but that's just the way of the game, especially with Levi because his hiring pool is insane.

As to what you're looking for; 1 is kind of a non-issue, even superficially similar masters play in radically different ways, and picking up a new master is a lot like learning the game over again from scratch. 2 - balance is pretty good in this game, Neverborn definitely have a good spread of top-tier masters (Collodi for control, Lilith for tricky damage and movement, Lynch for deck manipulation and murder, Dreamer for summoning). 3 - pretty is as pretty does, building and painting these models can be a pain so choose something you like the look of.

If you are interested in Neverborn and Guild aesthetically (and particularly Sonnia, Guild McMourning, or Lilith) then the starter set is definitely a good value. Otherwise there's nothing critical in it.

[Wolfpact]

If you want to go Neverborn and not be a glass cannon, you should consider Lynch. He plays uniquely, he can respawn his master/pet beatstick, he hits like a truck filled with slightly smaller trucks with proper setup... and his Illuminated minions are Terrifying, Armored, and heal 2-4wounds per turn with a positively brutal melee attack and a remarkably good Charge of 8". His (not-included_ Beckoner thematic support unitsare good at luring people into the waiting arms of said brutes and debuffing them to start the carnage, and though I've not used them (yet) his cheap junkie Depleted are supposedly stupidly-durable tarpits.

[Kaos]

10 hours ago, admiralvorkraft said:

Leveticus is still decidedly top-tier, he's just not the flat out best option in the game in all strategy and scheme pools (he probably wasn't before either, but he was close).

Starting with Levi's box, Bishop, Johan, and Convict Gunslingers you should be good for a long time. You will want to expand your collection (probably) but that's just the way of the game, especially with Levi because his hiring pool is insane.

 

I think I'm quite sold on Leveticus, but my expand plan was quite different. I was planning to get killjoy, that can be placed into Levi or abominations, necropunks, another box of abominations and Lazarus. I was looking at ashes and dust, interesting mechanic but i think he is a bit too constrained in his actions, since he need to flank and be close to the border so you cannot throw him into the fray to force piece trading. So I don't find it too necessary at the moment. Maybe it has some kind of interaction I still not grasp.

I was also looking at the spider constructs to have cheap card drawing engines, but at 4 soulstones each they don't look so cheap.

Oh and probably the effigy of hodgepodge, since is always a pleasure to earn something back when you kill something.

[Adran]

Ashes and Dust works on about 2/3 of the board for being able to re-form on the turn it is killed. The value you'll get from this varies. I only bother trying to Kill Ashes and Dust, if I can then kill one half of it to stop re-forming, but it is a big beater, so it can be hard to control. It can do really well, or it might only be okay, you have to be aware of its risks. 

There aren't many Constructs that self heal, so you might struggle to get a cheap card drawing engine going. (I use VonSchill and the Steam trunk if I want a abomination card drawing engine) Lazarus is a good one, and Ashes and dust, or the Desolation engine are also good,  because of their healing. (I think necro punks canm also heal)

Your list sounds a reasonable start. Its not the only way to go and it may or may not fit what you want, but Leveticus is still a very strong master in the hands of a good player.

[admiralvorkraft]

You'll want at least two more anchors (6+ss models) to fuel Levi's death/rebirth cycle. Librarian's and Johan are some of the best, but Librarians are only available in the Von Schill box (unless you can find the old metals) and Gunslingers are a good second option. I would not look at what he can hire through Bone/Iron until you get a sense of what he can do in Outcasts, I would also say you probably don't need more abominations right away, as you're likely not going to want to hire more than two of them.

Do what you want, but I would be inclined to figure out what Levi does "out of the box" and then look at buying models to fill the roles that I need filled, rather than trying to theory-craft an optimal build in advance. Partially that's just how I role, but partially it's because Levi brings so many options to the table.

[Kaos]

No more abominations? Not even for summoning? I agree I wouldn't hire many, but I will need models for summoning, isn't it?

I would like to buy just the box, but since I usually order online and stuff take time to arrive, I usually go for few bigger orders instead of small frequent one to avoid to be killed by expedition fees.

[Adran]

I'm not a huge Levi player, but I haven't needed more than 4. when ever I've reached 4 I've summoned a desolation engine. 

Even in a list set up to summon abominations I started with 2, managed to make 5 more during the game, but never needed more than 4 at any one time. 

This might be because I know I only have 4, so if I had more I might have used them, but if they are near the opponent, they are annoying enough that most people need to kill them fairly fast. 

[Kaos]

Oh nice i see the base box has 4 abominations and not 3 as I tought. So what should get to expand? Probably a desolation engine and? I suppose some ranged models as anchors?

 

[Adran]

Leveticus has such a large pool the right answer to what to get with him is almost what ever you want. If he can hire it then its probably not a bad addition. 

I know several Levi players who never go for Desolation engine, preferring to keep Abombs, but also don't need a large number of Abombs, since they often don't start with them. 

I would strongly suggest getting at least 1 extra anchor, but it doesn't need to be a ranged one. (depending on how you want to play). I'd also suggest starting by looking in Faction at purchases, so things like Johan and Lazarus, because Levi can always hire them, where as if you buy a load of guild constructs, and then decide you really want Izamu, Levi can't have both in the list at the same time. 

 

[Kaos]

My reasoning about the ranged anchor is that if I would play vs something like that, I would try to snipe the waif first. Meaning my opponent probably want to keep them as far as possible from the action (considering Levi as a 0 action to teleport into the fray at the cost of one undead model). So the fact the need an anchor is a big liability since a piece is needed to stand back and not get job done to ensure Leveticus survivability. I don't think both waif need to be anchored since you should know where you want to be at the next reincarnation cycle but of course if your only anchor dies, you're in trouble.

I still need to understand how the summon waif ability is supposed to work, since summoning a waif in 6" sounds like a dead waif unless: 

1) you went for a surgical strike, you remove the enemy piece and then summon a waif to be somewhere else next turn then run the waif in position on the subsequent turns.

2) you manage to summon her behind a wall of meat so next turn you are able to place Levi near the fray and charge as soon you can activate him to make him die again.

I can see there are lot of activation problems that come with this guy strategy, even of being where you want, when you want and have multiple lives is quite powerful.