Anyone played against Titania yet? Looking for tips

[Anung Un Rama]

Greetings fellow Ressurectionists;

I have a game this week against Titania. I know he will take her base crew plus Nekima. Not sure of schemes and strat yet but I am looking for some tips on approaching the game. Which master should i NOT take? Who are good counters to her crew. Any schemes I should avoid?

Thank you in advance.

[benjoewoo]

She heals for you dropping scheme markers, so be careful about that. Avoid schemes requiring markers near the action, e.g. search the ruins, detonate the charges, etc. to avoid healing her too much.

She drops a lot of markers as well, so marker manipulation would be good. Phlip & the Nanny comes to mind, though he might explode to Nekima...speaking of which...

Titania can go between her Wp based melee to set up for a Df based melee that has a 4/5/6 track. Alternatively, each time she uses the Df based melee attack and gets the ram, she can have one of her other models take a melee against you--i.e. Nekima.

[Durza]

Titania can also take an upgrade that when a corpse or scrap is dropped near her by an enemy model it becomes a scheme marker unless the opposing player discards a card,  so watch out for that. 

Mcmourning seems like a good match up if she takes her thematic crew as they are all undead, you can easily get off rancid transplants  without needing plastic surgery  or needing to be too close. 

[MalifauxMartin]

I've found Aeslin to be a huge force multiplier. Killing her should be a priority in my experience.

[feagaur]

I'd avoid Molly if I were you. As you'd only be summoning models on a couple of wounds all it would need is a scheme marker next to them and an insidious madness close by and they're pretty much dead at the start of their activation. 

And you're right about Aeslin. She has a 0ap action that makes any friendly models within range (8" I think) immune to moves, pushes or places of enemy models. Which makes belles less effective.

Ranged damage is useful against her crew as it keeps you out of the auras and engagement (remembering that the three knights and Aeslin have an ability on the front of there cards that any enemy model that starts its activation engaged with at least one of them must take a TN13 wp duel or gain slow). Also if you're close to them you're probably close to scheme markers which you don't want to be.

[Four_N_Six]

Just need to be careful about the knights if you try to stay ranged.  All of them have a (0) action vs Wp that pushes the target 8", plus another effect depending on the Knight.  They're not amazing, but in my experience, their other (0) doesn't compete with that push.  So if you're setting up to stay ranged against them, make sure you have a counter when they inevitably drag you in.

[benjoewoo]

15 hours ago, Four_N_Six said:

Just need to be careful about the knights if you try to stay ranged.  All of them have a (0) action vs Wp that pushes the target 8", plus another effect depending on the Knight.  They're not amazing, but in my experience, their other (0) doesn't compete with that push.  So if you're setting up to stay ranged against them, make sure you have a counter when they inevitably drag you in.

Anna Lovelace. 9 SS henchmen with a min damage 3 shot action stops 6+ SS of models from dragging you in.

Not a panacea, but very effective.

[Greebo]

30 minutes ago, benjoewoo said:

Anna Lovelace. 9 SS henchmen with a min damage 3 shot action stops 6+ SS of models from dragging you in.

Not a panacea, but very effective.

That's not entirely true. She just stops people from pushing into you, not you from being pushed. But she's great anyways. 

[benjoewoo]

"ClockWork Dress: Enemy models may not end push or movement effects within 8 aura unless that effect was generated by a Walk Action, Charge Action, or a model in this Crew. Models which would be illegally pushed or moved into the aura stop at its edge."

If the push from the enemy model would end within the 8" aura, it cannot occur based on that reading because it just says "enemy models may not end push or movement effects". Doesn't say that the enemy models may not be pushed or moved within 8 aura, and thus would include effects that push or move models friendly to Anna Lovelace.

Titania's minions can push you 8" in total, but must do so between 2 separate melee attacks via trigger. Assuming the push wouldn't get the model out of the aura, each push would separately fail for not pushing the model entirely out of the aura. . 

Gravity Well seems to lend credence to this interpretation because it specifically addresses enemy models placing into the aura area. The difference in conceptual issues between clockwork dress and gravity well indicate the latter addressed going into the aura (both of which are 8) while the former addressed moving within the aura.

[spooky_squirrel]

Which either leaves your models bunched up around Anna Lovelace and vulnerable to pulse-like effects (such as being damaged for being next to scheme markers), or spacing out with your ranged attack goodies, leaving them potentially vulnerable to the pushing.

It's worth noting that models would be pushed up to their charge towards the waiting knights for one of them, pushed to base contact (8" range) for another, and pushed up to 8" towards the model--so the 8" isn't hard and fast (except as a max, due to the range on the spell), but they can still pull your support pieces away from Anna Lovelace and mess them up.

[benjoewoo]

Very true. I forgot each one has different pushes for 8" or so. However, a note is that if the target model has any portion of its base parallel to Anna's base in reference to lateral lines to the Titania minion, the push will still fail because the far back most edge of the base will still be within 8" of Anna. Bad description of positioning, it's difficult to describe without a diagram--envision a grid and use lines perpendicular to how the models "face" each other, assuming you always point the models facing towards each other.

[spooky_squirrel]

I only comment because I love playing control games, and the details are super important when playing as or against a controller. For instance, Anna's "no weird movement shenanigans for you" is an 8 effect. So line of sight, proximity of models, and placement all come into play. If your opponent is fielding someone like Nekima, she can mess that all up by creating blindspots that the aura doesn't cover (her height and base size are serious factors). It's also not always the goal to move them if the secondary effects don't rely on their moving, just that the duel succeeded.

[entropolous]

2 hours ago, benjoewoo said:

"ClockWork Dress:Enemy models may not end push or movement effects within 8 aura unless that effect was generated by a Walk Action, Charge Action, or a model in this Crew. Models which would be illegally pushed or moved into the aura stop at its edge."

If the push from the enemy model would end within the 8" aura, it cannot occur based on that reading because it just says "enemy models may not end push or movement effects". Doesn't say that the enemy models may not be pushed or moved within 8 aura, and thus would include effects that push or move models friendly to Anna Lovelace.

Titania's minions can push you 8" in total, but must do so between 2 separate melee attacks via trigger. Assuming the push wouldn't get the model out of the aura, each push would separately fail for not pushing the model entirely out of the aura. . 

Gravity Well seems to lend credence to this interpretation because it specifically addresses enemy models placing into the aura area. The difference in conceptual issues between clockwork dress and gravity well indicate the latter addressed going into the aura (both of which are 8) while the former addressed moving within the aura.

 

If "enemy models" was specifying the source of the effect, rather than the target, the last exemption (effects generated by a model in this crew) would be meaningless.  The dress and the well restricts the placement and movement of enemy models themselves, not effects by enemy models upon friendly models.

[benjoewoo]

If you didn't include the exception in the text, friendly belle lures would be unable to lure enemy models within the bubble. The exception as worded applies to source, considering the previous two items in the list are references to sources as well. 

The "unless that effect was generated" portion of the text also indicates the ability refers to source.

[entropolous]

If "enemy models" is specifying the source of the effect, friendly bellies wouldn't be be effected in any case.

[benjoewoo]

Yes, they would. I've put some examples below. They assume the ability reads, "ClockWork Dress: Enemy models may not end push or movement effects within 8 aura unless that effect was generated by a Walk Action or Charge Action. Models which would be illegally pushed or moved into the aura stop at its edge."

Example A

Rotten Belle friendly to Anna Lovelace is positioned with full base in Anna's 8" aura. Rotten Belle attempts to lure enemy model, also fully within Anna's 8" aura. Lure may succeed, but no movement will result because enemy model would end a movement effect within the 8" aura.

Example B

Rotten Belle friendly to Anna Lovelace is positioned with full base in Anna's 8" aura. Rotten Belle attempts to lure enemy model whose base is partially in Anna's 8" aura. Lure may succeed, but no movement will result because the enemy model is still affected by Anna's 8" aura.

Example C

Rotten Belle friendly to Anna Lovelace is positioned will full base in Anna's 8" aura. Rotten Belle attempts to lure enemy model whose base is fully outside of Anna's 8" aura. Lure may succeed, and the enemy model will move, stopping at the edge of the aura positioning the enemy model as close as possible to Rotten Belle within the enemy model's Wk stat.

 

We know the above examples are not what happen, however, with the current wording of the ability, which references the source of the push or movement effect. Therefore, source matters. The ability references that enemy models may not end push or movement effects within the 8" aura. Provided their push or movement effect would push or move a model, friendly or enemy, completely out of the 8" aura, then it would be a legal push or movement and result in actual movement. This has 0 effect on whether the move is successfully cast, and does not affect any triggers unless those triggers require the target to actually move.

[entropolous]

In all three examples, you are interpreting "enemy models" as the the target of the effect, not the source.  When you use that interpretation, Anna's dress has no effect on an enemy belle luring a model friendly to anna into her 8" aura.

[Kadeton]

Clockwork Dress doesn't ever stop friendly models from being pushed or moved by the enemy, sadly. If you want to discuss the details of that ability further, I'd suggest taking it to the Rules forum.

[spooky_squirrel]

Which means that if you're bringing her to defend against controllers/pushers, it's not going to stop them from pulling your stuff around.

 

My earlier remark regarding line of sight still applies, and if you know your opponent is bringing Nekima, she might run interference into Anna Lovelace, blocking line of sight for follow-up pushes if your opponent needs them to get into position.

[benjoewoo]

18 hours ago, Kadeton said:

Clockwork Dress doesn't ever stop friendly models from being pushed or moved by the enemy, sadly. If you want to discuss the details of that ability further, I'd suggest taking it to the Rules forum.

Was this in the FAQ/errata? I don't want to keep discussing a rules discussion topic, but if my interpretation is necessarily wrong then it furthers this thread's discussion as a non suggestion for anti-Titania tech or very good anti-Titania tech. 

I may have missed it since I'm on my phone, but I don't think there's an official interpretation yet. Also the topic in the rules thread discussing this shows a lack of consensus based on the posts I see. Not sure if I looked at the right one though. 

[Kadeton]

3 hours ago, benjoewoo said:

Was this in the FAQ/errata? I don't want to keep discussing a rules discussion topic, but if my interpretation is necessarily wrong then it furthers this thread's discussion as a non suggestion for anti-Titania tech or very good anti-Titania tech. 

It won't be in the FAQ because it's not ambiguous within the rules of the game. For something to qualify as as an enemy model ending a movement or push effect, the model being pushed or moved must be an enemy model. If an Autumn Knight pushes your Punk Zombie, the Punk Zombie is the one ending a push effect in a certain place, not the Knight.

Anna's tech is good for keeping the enemy away from your crew, but it doesn't do anything to keep your crew away from the enemy.