Do over!

[EpicWaffle]

Hi to all! I was just curious to know what "do over" actually does! I couldn't find a proper description of it, but I saw a lot of player sudjesting to use it.

So if anyone has access to the book/card and is able to share it, would be really appreciated!

 

[Blacks85]

"Do over" is a broken upgrade you want always in your crew except if you do a 50 SS crew and have no space for a 1SS upgrade.

Basically it allow you, once per turn, when you shoot into a combat to shot again if you hit one of your allied model.

But that's just a side effect you won't probably use.

The strong part is that you may discard it to draw 2 cards. This means, the turn you need it, you might actually draw 4 cards with that and a soulstone...meaning you always want it.

[Dogmantra]

@Blacks85 I hadn't really considered always taking it because draw 2 is better than draw 2 discard 2. You make a good point that for 1 stone it is a slightly better deal than spending a stone to draw and discard, but you do lose the versatility that the extra stone brings, and an upgrade slot, and you also have to wait until that model's activation to actually draw the cards. I think it's certainly always one to consider but I wouldn't go anywhere near calling it broken, or even an autoinclude.

Really, I think it shines most on Wong. Slap it onto him, throw some expendable or very durable models into melee, blast off them and essentially get an extra attack for the cost of a card per turn.

[PositronMike]

I love this upgrade on Wong. Shoot a stuffed piglet in combat do lots of damage to enemy models then discard a card to do it again. 

[EpicWaffle]

13 hours ago, Blacks85 said:

"Do over" is a broken upgrade you want always in your crew except if you do a 50 SS crew and have no space for a 1SS upgrade.

Basically it allow you, once per turn, when you shoot into a combat to shot again if you hit one of your allied model.

But that's just a side effect you won't probably use.

The strong part is that you may discard it to draw 2 cards. This means, the turn you need it, you might actually draw 4 cards with that and a soulstone...meaning you always want it.

So basically as long as you have models like stuffed piglets to hit in combat, you gain 1 extra Ap?  So Wong will definitely abuse this in combination with gremlin luck!

Tho aside from Wong and maybe Somer in an heavy summoning list, is it that strong?  I'm on the same line with Dogmantra on the fact that is sure good but doesn't seem to me as broken.

Taking the same example, on Wong is great because You don't generally use all 3 slots for the upgrades,and he can make great use out of it. On somer tho, I almost always have Dirty cheater and family tree (this one is an auto include) and than I go for can of beans or liquid bravery, depending on the enemy crew. So I can't really see a spot for do over, also because it's so easy to draw just by having 1 gremlin die, possibly turning into a piglet.

I have a question tho, the main effect of the upgrade specify that you need to hit something in combat? Cause otherwise, the ulix hunting bow can become very freighting by having 2 pigs charging around with just 1 Ap.

[EpicWaffle]

11 hours ago, PositronMike said:

I love this upgrade on Wong. Shoot a stuffed piglet in combat do lots of damage to enemy models then discard a card to do it again. 

Yeah that is nice! Wong is definitely getting s boost in this expansion between cursed swine and this upgrade.

[PositronMike]

4 hours ago, EpicWaffle said:

I have a question tho, the main effect of the upgrade specify that you need to hit something in combat? Cause otherwise, the ulix hunting bow can become very freighting by having 2 pigs charging around with just 1 Ap.

You have to hit a model in combat. The discard for 1 AP requires you to randomise into combat and hit one of your own models

[Blacks85]

On 9/17/2016 at 9:46 PM, Dogmantra said:

@Blacks85 I hadn't really considered always taking it because draw 2 is better than draw 2 discard 2. You make a good point that for 1 stone it is a slightly better deal than spending a stone to draw and discard, but you do lose the versatility that the extra stone brings, and an upgrade slot, and you also have to wait until that model's activation to actually draw the cards. I think it's certainly always one to consider but I wouldn't go anywhere near calling it broken, or even an autoinclude.

Really, I think it shines most on Wong. Slap it onto him, throw some expendable or very durable models into melee, blast off them and essentially get an extra attack for the cost of a card per turn.

Partially agree.

You lose the versatility of the soulstone, but you got the boost of 2 extra cards. In my experience, you use at least 2 soulstones to draw cards, usually 3. This means, from turn 2 to turn 4 you almost always do the cycle of 2 cards for a soulstone. This means, you can increase the efficiency in the key turns, 2nd and 3rd, by actually having a boost on the most important one.

Yes, you lose an upgrade slot but actually is a plus, imo. I never fill all the upgrades slot and - while you have it - you can always do show of force with it.

Moreover, I've never fitted 3 upgrade on a master, so far ! Or 2 into an henchman, so I don't find problem to have a free slot

[Dogmantra]

1 hour ago, Blacks85 said:

Yes, you lose an upgrade slot but actually is a plus, imo. I never fill all the upgrades slot and - while you have it - you can always do show of force with it.

Idk about show of force. It might be helpful, but who are you putting it on that it can be useful on? Imo it's best on Wong and probably Som'er, but then you don't get show of force. Put it on an enforcer and you just denied them dirty cheater, and most Henchmen don't really have blasts or even randomising shots.

[PositronMike]

37 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

Idk about show of force. It might be helpful, but who are you putting it on that it can be useful on? Imo it's best on Wong and probably Som'er, but then you don't get show of force. Put it on an enforcer and you just denied them dirty cheater, and most Henchmen don't really have blasts or even randomising shots.

The only enforcer I can think that might want it would be Burt as he can use his sic 'em trigger to push a stuffed piglet into combat and then shoot in afterwards. In theory with reckless and Do Over you could get 7 shots at something, 1 to trigger sic 'em, 1 AP to shoot triggering trigger crazy for 2 shots, 1 AP to shoot hitting piglet and triggering trigger crazy and do over then the do over shot triggering trigger crazy again.

This would need to be in Som'er crew to get the suits for trigger crazy and you are removing the possibility of Dirty cheater or Hide in the Mud.

[Blacks85]

5 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

Idk about show of force. It might be helpful, but who are you putting it on that it can be useful on? Imo it's best on Wong and probably Som'er, but then you don't get show of force. Put it on an enforcer and you just denied them dirty cheater, and most Henchmen don't really have blasts or even randomising shots.

I believe you're focusing on the wrong part of the text!!

It's crazy strong for the one-shot ability, not for the random +1AP part...that is why it's an auto-include.

You can give it to anyone you want...it doesn't really matter.

The boos it gives you, worth the price.

Of course, if you give it to Wong it's crazy cool...but on everyone else is just almost as strong, because you're going to discard it for 2 cards anyway pretty soon.

[Dogmantra]

6 hours ago, Blacks85 said:

I believe you're focusing on the wrong part of the text!!

Nah I get that but I don't think it's as much of an auto-include as you do. I know the +2 cards is decent on anyone, but without the benefits of the passive ability, imo it's pretty value-neutral with just keeping the extra stone + upgrade slot. And the passive is great, just not on too many people. It's a very strong upgrade. I don't think it's broken.

11 hours ago, PositronMike said:

The only enforcer I can think that might want it would be Burt

Who happens to be one of the models who makes just about the best use of Dirty Cheater

[PositronMike]

Absolutely hence mentioning it at the end. I have also started putting hide in the mud on Burt more when against shooty crews as it can help get his defensive trigger off easier which is always fun. I might be tempted to take Do Over on Burt in an Ophelia crew as both Ophelia and Franc love dirty cheater and it is often a struggle to decide who gets dirty cheater in that crew.