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Reva wrecking face?

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Just won another game with Reva. I think I have 10-12 games with her under my belt now. I've won all but two which were ties against Asami. The last game I played was against a Zoraida with a McTavish, couple of sillurids, Iggy and a dop. won 9-5 but he was not really prepared for Reva, which I have found is what happens a lot. If you aren't ready for her, she can throw you so off your game that she just snowballs. His two silurids were dead on turn one because he activated them too early. He spent most of the game hiding his crew in the forest, hemming my stuff and slowly burning it down, and it worked pretty well against those models, but Reva didn't care about McTavish's aura and was still wrecking his stuff in the backfield, just slowly moving up with her (0) action. 

At the end of the game I only had Reva and Bete Noir left on the table, but he only had Zoraida left. (I was actually surprised Bete lived, but I also brought Archie a hanged and Yin) Archie, by the way, I love. I don't think he's ever survived a game Ihave brought him with, but for Reva he just does a lot of work. Aside from being able to throw corpse counters, he's such a huge damage threat, that people HAVE to divert attention to him, which means they are spending less time trying to get at Reva or my hanged or Vincent if I take him or whoever. 

He did also take Eliminate the Leadership, and got Reva down to one wound, but she ended the match at 5 or 6 wounds up thanks to her triggers and front of card ability. 

I don't think she's unbeatable, but you definitely have to KNOW how to beat her and I think that for people who have not played against her and sit down across from her, it's going to seem like there's nothing that you can do against her. McTavish was eating a corpse marker every turn and I still had enough corpses to do Look on My Works with 1-2 corpse markers on a couple of turns and still have plenty to attack anything I needed. My opponent never got a model on my half of the table, which is something I find to happen quite a bit with Reva as I have played her. 

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My local Reva was not thrilled with Bete Noire. He was testing it in a game against me instead of his usual Arcanist opponent (which Arcanist is 0 for 10 at least on actually defeating her and he is a far better player than I am), sidelining Yin for a game. He believes Reva has enough of a discard tax on creating the corpse candle and reserving the 10+ as well left him with too small a hand--even allowing for the fact that Howard Langston will not usually top-deck high rams the way he was that game. And he certainly has the experience with facing Howard Langston to support that assertion.

Nurse + Chiaki is nefarious. I got that Carrion Emissary down to HtK only to see it healed back to full twice before finally landing an execute he wasn't willing to discard to stop. They do have the weakness of being living and having terrifying (living) models being shoved in their face, but to be fair, Vincent + shieldbearers have the same weakness.

Brutal Emissary's gun did a lovely job of clearing out multiple corpse candles on a single AP after being launched into the midst of things, and then the peacekeeper and emissary stood on the few remaining corpses, which constrained Reva a great deal. And so her only local defeat came at the hands of Hoffman, of all people. I still can't believe it.

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Local Reva player used Bete in Stake a Claim game recently. She popped out of a forward corpse candle for turn 1 Claim marker which set him for a good lead on the strategy (by the end I scored 0 he scored 2 from Stake). Will need more testing obviously but seemed like a valid use for her.

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Ive used Bete in a few games with her. Sometimes she dies, sometimes she doesn't. It's about knowing when to pop her out. Turn one I didn't mind holding the ten. Sometimes I don't mind if she dies. 

A lot of times I'll pop her out just to have her go snatch up an objective, where even if she dies, I'm getting points. She's a distraction if I hold the 10 or a scalpel if I don't. 

When an Archie or hanged is bearing down, sometimes Bete is just not a priority target, even if she's right in their face.

I have yet to use the Emissary with her though. I'm not usually sure who to take out, really.

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13 hours ago, Nikodemus said:

Local Reva player used Bete in Stake a Claim game recently. She popped out of a forward corpse candle for turn 1 Claim marker which set him for a good lead on the strategy (by the end I scored 0 he scored 2 from Stake). Will need more testing obviously but seemed like a valid use for her.


She is very valid.  Perfect in stake a claim where you can put a claim marker in the opponents backfield turn 1 thanks to Guises of Death corpse candle and the opponent is on the back foot right away. I use it all the time. Poping Bette out from corpse candles is amazing in a lot of different scheme-situations. Denying markers for leave your mark and claim jump for example.

You need to keep that 10+ for her though but since she has +flip on attack it evens out a bit.

Reva is a quite card intensive master. You want the high cards for her attacks and some moderate cards for her teleport-0 and a low card to summon a corpse candle. Therefor You want a crew that has high ca/ma or +flip and preferably high wp so you dont need to waste cards on wp-duels. Yin is nice in theory since you then dont need to use that many high cards on revas attacks.

Set-up, Mark for Death is horrible schemes for her though so avoid these. In setups case try to figure out if they have it and then deny it by not letting bette be near scheme-markers






 

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6 hours ago, Da Git said:

On a similar note to Bete, has anyone tried Killjoy with Reva?

Yes, works quite well since you can with Guises of death deploy a Corpse Candle very far back (not within 8" on enemy models of course) the Candle will at an appropriate timme walk up, kill itself and let Killjoy out where you want him. 

Problem with Killjoy as I see it is that both he and Reva has so great attacks so they both compete for the high-cards in your control hand to get the most value out of the models.

Since he is so expensive you will probably on have 7-8 members in your crew (most likely 7) you will get 1 extra activation from the Guise corpse candle and 1 extra activation from Reva summoned corpse candle before killjoy pops out. So if you start the round its very unlikely that you have out-activated the opponent before Killjoy appears. 

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Been playing Malifaux since 1.0 and now was first game w Reva. Had Vinnie, 2 Shieldbearers, Emissary, Nurse, Belle and Necropunk. 

I played badly so that definitely helped my opponent (at work you get kinda distracted) so I lost because we played well w Marcus. Pushed up and killed and Claimed. With my Resser experience I can see that she is very strong but not the greatest (Molly ftw) and not unkillable by any means. Push up and put pressure and make her "waste AP" killing things so she can't contribute to S&S. Will test her more because kinda liking what I see, but she's in no way OP. 

Oh and a shoutout to all who compare her to Hamelin in 1.0: you guys really don't know what you're talking about. I'm sorry if I hurt anyone but she's nowhere near that amount of OP.

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Reva: Champion of the Bronies, Master of casual level meta change.

I've noticed since Book 4 some of my opponents have started defining flat elevated terrains, roofs usually, as impassable. Slightly less often but somewhat more odd is defining many building interiors as impassable. I suspect the reason is LoS shenanigans, probably internally thought of as abuse. I usually primarily Seamus, Kirai, Raspy, Sandeep, or Reva, most of whom require tight rules usage for LoS, especially vantage point.

Reva is on the more extreme end of needing precise usage of LoS rules, and depending on your view, could require more common rules consultation than even Seamus, given how LoS is determined. I don't think Reva's rules are as bad as Raspy, just more obvious because if someone casually plays a bunch of fences and small ruins on a map, then abandon hope, all ye who enter.

It might be earlier in this thread or in another similarly themed one, but terrain will really affect Reva. If you have only Ht 2 or less terrain, Reva can be Eye of Sauron + Death Star. If you have all Ht 3+ terrain, you'll play a game of hide and seek or Reva can start abusing vantage point rules. 

Varying terrain design will mitigate a large part of Reva's map control/force projection, depending which terminology you use. It's particularly significant here because Reva presents an anomaly in Malifaux--she's utilizes an efficient, easy to grasp long range mechanic in a faction where all the other options tend to be melee oriented. Her often compared to peers come from factions that generally utilize range, so it's not as surprising. At the casual level, this is likely a more devastating effect than at the competitive level, especially if the terrain isn't varied enough to prevent the Eye of Sauron + Death Star effect.

I would note that despite the chatter in this thread and some others, Reva hasn't made a visibly large splash in the competitive scene. 

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@benjoewoo

What do you mean by abusing vantage points and needing more precise terrain definitions? Is it because of the corpse candle attacks and ignoring intervening models? I don't think she's worse than Seamus in the defining terrain part. It makes a really big difference for him if he can appear inside of houses or on roofs or not. Defining individual trees in woods as blocking objects or not is also a big difference to where he can place.

Our tables are usually heavy on tall, terrain pieces that are impassable and/or woods so she can't target anything anywhere. A table without LoS-blockers at ht 3+ is in my opinion not properly designed. I would think Reva (and the game in general) would be susceptible to sniper spam and a few other tricks on such an open board. If anyone in your meta did sniper or scheme-placement nonsense which has been available in decent quantities since wave 2 you probably changed how you handled it. ALITS was a breeze for crews that could place their markers on top of houses that no one else could gain access or draw LoS to.

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@Ludvig

A lot of the terrain I play on locally consists of medium square buildings with flat or slightly slanted roofs that easily allow models to stand on them. Many of them are Ht 3, so if Reva is > 3" from the ledge, she is invisible from that ledge. This results in the odd interaction where she gets her 21"+ range with the option to move out of LoS. Costs an AP and her 0, but she gets 2 attacks with relative impunity. It only takes 1 such building to achieve the set up.

Reva is not as abusive as Raspy or seem as untouchable/unkillable as Seamus for capitalizing on terrain, but the combination of all three makes it easier to simply not play with being able to go onto the roofs in the first place. 

As a result, Reva often has large areas she can't see, so her range is rarely oppressive. That, and her lack of quality activation control make it fairly easy to mitigate her Turn 1, possibly Turn 2, activations. 

At least locally, sniper spam isn't particularly common. People often bring a trapper/katanaka, with the odd Nino or Hanz, but they don't often have oppressive situations because of the high scatter count and building distributions we use. 

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I genuinely do believe that terrain does serve some issue with the local Reva problem - to the point where the words "Reva on a Roof" have been a bit of a local joke. But it does definitely point out that we don't use enough terrain. I do find it to be a bit of a negative play experience that to survive a hit from her generally involves completely avoiding her gaze. The nasty list that unfortunately more than one person is currently using is Carrion Emissary with My Little Helper, Yin with My Little Helper, Phillip and the Nanny, a necropunk and a couple of shield bearers. Reva's upgrades are the charge one and the ignore damage reduction one. Basically the play is to set up walls with Carrion to make lanes where you kinda need to go - Shield Bearers make heaps of corpse markers, Yin marks a person for death and Reva fires at it. If you don't kill Reva in one activation she typically heals up very, very quickly and the charge upgrade means she's basically never stuck. If the player is good (and the main one locally is VERY good) then it's very hard to beat - especially with Yin getting 2 chances of putting a model at negatives in a turn, they can really make sure they kill something dead a turn and there's little you can do about it.

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I am a bit confused :) A lot of people are in love for reva with decaying aura and are talking about the attack of 18+" is not preventable. This is wrong, right? I mean Decaying Aura has a 4" aura around reva and not the mirror corpses?

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Just for clarification. The shieldbearers don't get fast when reva is in range and the initiative is reflipped or card are drawn with stones because it is the player paying the stones and not the leader?

 

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15 minutes ago, Veefy said:

Can reva charge and use a corpse when attacking something really far away that she has los to ?

Nope, you have to end a charge within reach of your attacks and she can't draw LoS and range through them until she declares an attack so it's impossible to end the charge move legally unless you end it in actual range.

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