Reva wrecking face?

[DeleteAccount]

10 minutes ago, benjoewoo said:

Nellie cheats your damage REGARDLESS OF RJ against her vulnerable models, herself, the press, and Phiona.

I may be misunderstanding, but you make it sound like Revisionist History affects anybody else outside of Nellie. Only damage flips on Nellie can be cheated down.

As for the rest of your comments, mostly agree. I've seen Marcus do absolutely disgusting things and nobody is taking out a pitchfork nowadays. I just assume that all the new toys being well, new, as put a huge light on them and for some reason Reva is the main focus even though I think like you and that she is middle of the pack at best. I mean, Christ, why is Reva suddenly making everyone scramble for anticorpse tech all of a sudden? I would have expected Nicodem to be more than enough of a reason to consider anticorpse tech against ressers, Nico is one of those models that I'm amazed doesn't get that much attention even though he can do so much evil stuff with regularity. And I just have to insist, doing 9 damage a turn for a master is not impressive when I can field another master that also does 9 damage that ignores armor as a 0 action and gets me a Flesh Construct out of the deal, I just don't get how Reva is a big deal but McMourning is a chump suddenly when frankly, McMourning projects more damage in at a similar distance with proper set up, he does require more stuff focused on his thing, but Reva doesn't really do anything all that special compared to the original resser bruiser outside of her force projection. I mean, she is not as one dimensional as Lady J, she can at least push stuff, but being a scary beater took a big chunk of her design space and that's pretty undeniable.

She is the queen of consistent damage, outside of Hard to Kill, if you connect you will do 3 damage at least, I just don't feel it's something that you can be all like saying "yeah, this is totally baller and much better than summoning whatever the hell I want based on the situation while making it activate immediately after me with fast!".

 

[benjoewoo]

I'm writing at an airport without my book, and I misremembered revisionist history isn't part of her aura of denial. It did remind me Nellie gives journalists defensive pushes, however, so she can disngaging her journalists relatively easily--not that she necessarily needs to since engagements don't stop them from doing too much. 

[spooky_squirrel]

3 minutes ago, benjoewoo said:

A question I have, if 2-5 attacks from Reva herself between her various potential upgrades is giving you trouble, how do you deal with Sandeep? He allows friendly models to use his attacks and trigger him to attack out of activation. He can easily generate 6 AP of attacks outside of his own activation--5 SS, 7 Wd, essentially armored oxfordian mages can cast Sandeep's spells once each, and on a tome trigger--which I think they can get from being near each other--sandeep gets to cast one of his spells out of activation. This is in addition to being able to summon his totem twice a turn without slow. 

Nellie cheats your damage REGARDLESS OF RJ against her[...redacted...]. She punishes you for taking interact actions in a massive area, and operates a control crew remniscient of Magic the Gathering control decks--gives you only pain options or straight denies you after you used resources to accomplish something. It's not even expensive with field reporters costing 4, the press costing 4, and Nellie with upgrades costing 5. After she fills in 17 SS of upgrades and models (2x field reporters plus press), she just needs beaters to support the control models, who can't be charged, have manipulative, and can cheat your damage or let you flip with fake impossible to wound. The above tech happens for a condition based ability she gets essentially for free, and can be used for negative effects for opponents. Even if not used, at the end of each Turn Nellie can essentially go shopping, including to get SS. 

[...]

That leads me to think the issue is really a lack of comprehensive tactics to play against Reva rather than strict inability to. She has weaknesses, just need to identify them. Need to wait on thinking about toning Reva back because I think some of the other masters will be larger concerns, possibly in competitive play and almost certainly in casual play once casual level players are able to execute the tricks. 

All of this, right here. For the first month after GenCon, the wider area meta in my area was wondering how to deal with Sandeep. Baked in triggers on nasty abilities, reliable summoning to bring in Gamin that are specifically modified to do something they don't normally do. Nellie's abilities and crew are so controlling that I'm surprised that I'm not hearing more "how do I deal with this?"  ..except I'm not that surprised.

Controllers are a different learning curve than beaters are a different learning curve than summoners. Beaters have the most gentle curve of these, because they advertise what they do on their card and upgrades. There's not much more you need to know about them to immediately use their strengths. Summoners require knowing their limitations and range of options; some summoners are more straight forward than others, but they all take a little more effort to get order of activations down and can be a lot harder to counter. Controllers require not only knowing your own stuff cold, but reading the battlefield and knowing enough about your opponent's crew that you can correctly gauge what they're trying to do and stop them from doing it; thus they have the steepest curve. Countering a solid controller being run by someone who knows their stuff is rough and intense.

 

Over time, as the beater shock fades, people learn counters, etc., we're going to see people trying to figure out what to do about control/denial masters.

[moxypoo]

14 minutes ago, benjoewoo said:

A question I have, if 2-5 attacks from Reva herself between her various potential upgrades is giving you trouble, how do you deal with Sandeep? He allows friendly models to use his attacks and trigger him to attack out of activation. He can easily generate 6 AP of attacks outside of his own activation--5 SS, 7 Wd, essentially armored oxfordian mages can cast Sandeep's spells once each, and on a tome trigger--which I think they can get from being near each other--sandeep gets to cast one of his spells out of activation. This is in addition to being able to summon his totem twice a turn without slow. 

Nellie cheats your damage REGARDLESS OF RJ against her vulnerable models, herself, the press, and Phiona. She punishes you for taking interact actions in a massive area, and operates a control crew remniscient of Magic the Gathering control decks--gives you only pain options or straight denies you after you used resources to accomplish something. It's not even expensive with field reporters costing 4, the press costing 4, and Nellie with upgrades costing 5. After she fills in 17 SS of upgrades and models (2x field reporters plus press), she just needs beaters to support the control models, who can't be charged, have manipulative, and can cheat your damage or let you flip with fake impossible to wound. The above tech happens for a condition based ability she gets essentially for free, and can be used for negative effects for opponents. Even if not used, at the end of each Turn Nellie can essentially go shopping, including to get SS.

I don't understand it either. From my games with and against Reva, I remain unconvinced that Reva is anywhere near overpowered. Sandeep will turn out to be the strongest book 4 master (with Nellie in the top 3) - I'm open to taking a gentleman's bet on that.

5 minutes ago, Razhem said:

As for the rest of your comments, mostly agree. I've seen Marcus do absolutely disgusting things and nobody is taking out a pitchfork nowadays. I just assume that all the new toys being well, new, as put a huge light on them and for some reason Reva is the main focus even though I think like you and that she is middle of the pack at best. I mean, Christ, why is Reva suddenly making everyone scramble for anticorpse tech all of a sudden? I would have expected Nicodem to be more than enough of a reason to consider anticorpse tech against ressers, Nico is one of those models that I'm amazed doesn't get that much attention even though he can do so much evil stuff with regularity. And I just have to insist, doing 9 damage a turn for a master is not impressive when I can field another master that also does 9 damage that ignores armor as a 0 action and gets me a Flesh Construct out of the deal, I just don't get how Reva is a big deal but McMourning is a chump suddenly when frankly, McMourning projects more damage in at a similar distance with proper set up, he does require more stuff focused on his thing, but Reva doesn't really do anything all that special compared to the original resser bruiser outside of her force projection. I mean, she is not as one dimensional as Lady J, she can at least push stuff, but being a scary beater took a big chunk of her design space and that's pretty undeniable.

Exactly. When I play the Viks I generally pick out a 5" diameter circle anywhere within ~20" of one of the Viks and tell my opponent to remove all the models in that circle. Tara can drop Killjoy and a Desolation Engine out next to the enemy master on the first turn with high reliability (this is a one trick pony setup, admittedly). I can do disgusting things with Zoaroida, a Nurse, and Nekima, and easily murderize things with Lilith.

Has anyone tried just bum-rushing Reva's crew? From most of the arguments, it sounds like Reva's opponent is allowing her to set up a corpse field while cowering behind cover for the first few turns.

[benjoewoo]

I'll take that bet. I think asami may be top--summoners have uncapped potential with future model designs. As of now though, I'd say it's probably Sandeep (paper knowledge on my part), Nellie (fewer restrictions than asami, significantly reduces opponent's viable scheme pool), asami (full health summons, has very threatening printed attacks--jorogumo can be beastly). After that I'd probably say Titania and Reva, with no clear winne between the two--Titania is really good for some schemes on paper, but terrible for others-she's actually better in core rule book than gg 2016 I think. Reva has range and somewhat more flexibility, but is primarily an elite crew killer so she faces similar issues, just different schemes--also better suited for core rule book than gg 2016. Last would be zipp and Parker barrows. I haven't played against zipp, so maybe his placement should be higher, but his mechanics just don't really impress me as undeniably effective. They can be very much so, but I think there are more major vulnerabilities than Titania and Reva--primarily due to my interpretation of how Clockwork dress operates. Last is parker barrow, not because he's bad, but he requires keyword thematic crew members and his model  heavily stresses the control hand and SS pool with multiple target numbers and suit requirements for fake instinctual, upgrade exchanges, uses, actual attacks, etc. 

[Kadeton]

4 hours ago, benjoewoo said:

A question I have, if 2-5 attacks from Reva herself between her various potential upgrades is giving you trouble, how do you deal with Sandeep? He allows friendly models to use his attacks and trigger him to attack out of activation. He can easily generate 6 AP of attacks outside of his own activation--5 SS, 7 Wd, essentially armored oxfordian mages can cast Sandeep's spells once each, and on a tome trigger--which I think they can get from being near each other--sandeep gets to cast one of his spells out of activation. This is in addition to being able to summon his totem twice a turn without slow.

Not to derail into a Sandeep discussion, but this isn't at all how Sandeep works. First, Beacon allows each spell to be copied once per Turn - Arcane Storm, The Mind Among The Senses, The Path To Salvation, and As Your Deed, So Your Destiny can be cast once each, and that's it. If one Oxford Mage casts Arcane Storm, no other model (except Sandeep) can cast Arcane Storm that turn. Second, Student of All allows Sandeep to take an action once per Turn if one of his spells is cast with a Tome in the total. He can only generate 1 AP outside of his activation, ever.

That's not to say that he's not a really powerful and flexible Master, he's just not as crazy as you've suggested here.

[TheTrans]

So, after some gloriously logical and well written arguments that have come in, as well as some anti-Reva thoughts, I feel it is fair to say she isn't OP, she is just suffering from "New model, don't know how to counter" syndrome at the moment.

But at the same time, with RoF being released via PDF, I'm sure we'll get a new wave in here that will jump to bottom of page 8 and start it all over gain :P.

[Math Mathonwy]

11 hours ago, benjoewoo said:

Perdita 8" push plus base plus 14" range  = 23.1811".

Why do you factor in the base? It's not a Place effect so base has no effect. I mean, that doesn't change much in your argument but it looks weird. (With Reva's Summoning you should take into account the base, naturally.)

11 hours ago, benjoewoo said:

Reva can ignore SS prevention and all reduction on trigger at the cost of a corpse

Wait, her ignoring damage reduction costs a corpse? I don't have the book handy but I didn't know that - that indeed changes a lot to say the least!

Quote

The list goes on, but the idea is with set up Perdita is not strictly inferior for using a ranged attack Sh action vs Revas Ca melee. The same comparison applies to Raspy and to an extent other far reaching masters like Sonnia.

Note that both Guild and Arcanists have a large number of excellent ranged options in their non-Master section (December Acolytes and Austringers to name just two). Ressers have fewer and this is compensated by, e.g., the OP Lure of Belles. So the impact of an extremely ranged Master is different for Ressers than it is for Guild or Arcanists.

Quote

The previous posts provided some options for anti corpse tech specifically. Following that there was a post or so saying that for gremlins specifically the models are terrible--I think the comment on Leve was addressing just the summoning but acknowledging the ability to simply hire many counters from revas own faction. 

It would be intellectually dishonest for pro status quo Reva players to say all the corpse counters are good-they are not all equal. But, it's significantly worse for anti status quo Reva players to say that because they're not equal, there's no credence to the argument anti corpse marker tech is available, which supports the conclusion that Reva needs a cuddle--we're talking about tech that is used almost entirely to counter one faction. Reva is part of said faction as well.

The anti corpse marker tech supplements the strength of your crew to fight Reva. It supplements your tricks to gimp her as well.

That's an absolutely bizarre line of reasoning. "For a couple of Factions there exists only subpar options for Corpse removal. Therefore Reva is OK." I don't understand your argument at all.

Quote

 A question I have, if 2-5 attacks from Reva herself between her various potential upgrades is giving you trouble, how do you deal with Sandeep? He allows friendly models to use his attacks and trigger him to attack out of activation. He can easily generate 6 AP of attacks outside of his own activation--5 SS, 7 Wd, essentially armored oxfordian mages can cast Sandeep's spells once each, and on a tome trigger--which I think they can get from being near each other--sandeep gets to cast one of his spells out of activation. This is in addition to being able to summon his totem twice a turn without slow. 

Nellie cheats your damage REGARDLESS OF RJ against her vulnerable models, herself, the press, and Phiona. She punishes you for taking interact actions in a massive area, and operates a control crew remniscient of Magic the Gathering control decks--gives you only pain options or straight denies you after you used resources to accomplish something. It's not even expensive with field reporters costing 4, the press costing 4, and Nellie with upgrades costing 5. After she fills in 17 SS of upgrades and models (2x field reporters plus press), she just needs beaters to support the control models, who can't be charged, have manipulative, and can cheat your damage or let you flip with fake impossible to wound. The above tech happens for a condition based ability she gets essentially for free, and can be used for negative effects for opponents. Even if not used, at the end of each Turn Nellie can essentially go shopping, including to get SS.

As noted, you have really, really misunderstood how Sandeep and Nellie work.

[Omenbringer]

May I just ask that all of you who are either posting from memory or posting without having actually played against Reva please abstain. The former just leads to confusion and a high noise to signal ratio that really diminishes the discussion As for the latter I assure you actually playing against Reva, particularly in the hands of a half way competent player, is a lot different than simply interpreting her cards.

[Kadeton]

1 hour ago, Omenbringer said:

May I just ask that all of you who are either posting from memory or posting without having actually played against Reva please abstain.

Don't ask people not to post, thanks. Everyone is free to contribute, though it's always useful to indicate what your opinions on Reva's performance are based upon.

[Paddywhack]

9 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Wait, her ignoring damage reduction costs a corpse? I don't have the book handy but I didn't know that - that indeed changes a lot to say the least!

yeah... not sure what this is referring to. Ignoring damage reduction is done either through 1) Vincent's (0) action or 2) through her 2SS upgrade. 

She does have to discard a corpse to use a trigger that ups her damage tack by +1. If you give her Decaying Aura and her personal upgrade, she ignores armor and you cannot prevent damage against her attacks (she also stops healing within 4).

I'm not sold on her anti-armor upgrade (unless you think you'll be facing a lot of armour), but a lot of players are taking it with DA. With these two upgrades you don't necessarily need Vincent, though he can add other benefits as well. 

[DeleteAccount]

49 minutes ago, Omenbringer said:

May I just ask that all of you who are either posting from memory or posting without having actually played against Reva please abstain. The former just leads to confusion and a high noise to signal ratio that really diminishes the discussion As for the latter I assure you actually playing against Reva, particularly in the hands of a half way competent player, is a lot different than simply interpreting her cards.

I've done both and I assure you I have not seen this crazy op that dwarfs all. But hey, what does my personal experience account for when compared to yours, right?

[Omenbringer]

2 hours ago, Razhem said:

I've done both and I assure you I have not seen this crazy op that dwarfs all. But hey, what does my personal experience account for when compared to yours, right?

I am not saying that my experiences trump any ones, generally I try to view things from multiple perspectives. Those few that have posted battle reports where they were successful against her (and also not reliant upon either an "Ah Ha moment" or a RJ damage spike) have been very helpful to the discussion.

Again Reva is beatable, that doesn't mean she isn't outside the power curve and in possible need of re-evaluation. In an ultra competitive environment Reva may be seen as fine, in a more casual environment she (and a few other ultra-optimized lists) can be an extremely NPE. To each their own.

[DeleteAccount]

4 hours ago, Omenbringer said:

I am not saying that my experiences trump any ones, generally I try to view things from multiple perspectives. Those few that have posted battle reports where they were successful against her (and also not reliant upon either an "Ah Ha moment" or a RJ damage spike) have been very helpful to the discussion.

Again Reva is beatable, that doesn't mean she isn't outside the power curve and in possible need of re-evaluation. In an ultra competitive environment Reva may be seen as fine, in a more casual environment she (and a few other ultra-optimized lists) can be an extremely NPE. To each their own.

OK, fully agree that each environment is a world, maybe I suck/face sucky people or it's the other way around or it's none of the above. I do agree that she is a horrible experience for a new player to face, but frankly, there are so many masters in the game that if you go balls to the wall with them will make any new player want to never play a game again that it becomes a huge wash to me, I remember doing a demo of the Sonnia box vs Rasputina box, Sonnia burned half the enemy crew to cinders in an activation, do I suddenly get a pitchfork because she can be incredibly demoralizing for a new player when I know she is one of the easier masters to take down for me because of how badly she deals with being bumrushed?

To me, Reva is just a "GOTCHA!" master, if you aren't sure about her gimmick, you will pay in dear blood just because your master happened to end next to a corpse for example with no real benefit, but well, she is stupidly simple and direct, so it's no surprise to me that somebody using her would get very good results against people that aren't used to her, once experience kicks in, I'm convinced her stock will drop tremendously, but hey, for all I know, she might dominate the next tourny season, I just highly doubt it and expect high control masters to be the ones making people frown because control is what I tend to feel wins games, specially in objective heavy scenarios. It just baffles me that Reva has such a huge bullseye on her and something like Marcus who I know can make one of the most oppressive crews I have ever seen or McCabe's dog brigade which is incredibly annoying to deal with or Dreamer's summoning festival of fun seem to not be a big deal now that people have gotten used to them.

[TheTrans]

4 minutes ago, Razhem said:

...All the words..

Spot on mate! She is new, simple and easy to use, ergo, biggest bulls eye on her back!

Give it a few months and there will be Nellie Rage...just so much Nellie Rage #callingit #nellieisOP #hyperboleforthewin

[orkdork]

Reva has that "win big" aspect that can make a master feel very OP, like Sonnia. That said, I don't think she makes it into the "S" tier of masters.

I got surprised by Reva in my last tournament and really got my butt kicked. Luckily, my poor sleep-deprived opponent (who otherwise played brilliantly) fixated on the wrong scheme at the end and handed me the draw (and thus the tournament).

Since that game, though, all I see are ways I could have controlled that game better and won it handily. I had to slip up for Reva to win.

Maybe I'm wrong, in which case, go Ressers

[moxypoo]

On 10/5/2016 at 3:26 PM, benjoewoo said:

I'll take that bet. I think asami may be top--summoners have uncapped potential with future model designs. As of now though, I'd say it's probably Sandeep (paper knowledge on my part), Nellie (fewer restrictions than asami, significantly reduces opponent's viable scheme pool), asami (full health summons, has very threatening printed attacks--jorogumo can be beastly).

*Virtually shakes hands*  Remember that Sandeep is also a summoner even though his summoning is more limited than Asami's. My rationale for Sandeep being the best is that he's a summoner, and is a jack of all trades, and strong at all of them. He also has some control elements, so you can basically drop him into any objective pool and do well with him.

16 hours ago, Razhem said:

 It just baffles me that Reva has such a huge bullseye on her and something like Marcus who I know can make one of the most oppressive crews I have ever seen or McCabe's dog brigade which is incredibly annoying to deal with or Dreamer's summoning festival of fun seem to not be a big deal now that people have gotten used to them.

This is exactly correct. Well said, Razhem.

Every master can pull off some crazy stuff, and it takes a little time to figure out how to deal with those antics. Given all that, I don't understand why Reva has such a big target on her.

21 hours ago, Omenbringer said:

Again Reva is beatable, that doesn't mean she isn't outside the power curve and in possible need of re-evaluation. In an ultra competitive environment Reva may be seen as fine, in a more casual environment she (and a few other ultra-optimized lists) can be an extremely NPE. To each their own.

To me, NPE is a poor argument. Every master is an NPE to someone, and I'm pretty sure you could dig through these forums and find a post calling every single master an NPE. The only way NPE becomes a good argument in my eyes is when a huge portion of the player base considers the model to be negative or disruptive in some way. For example, pre-errata Hamelin was an NPE for everyone, since he was nearly impossible to beat. Reva just has the new master surprise factor, and once people figure out how to deal with her only trick, I predict these types of threads will die down.

There's been some comparison of Reva and pre-cuddle Levy, but I don't think it's a perfect comparison. Reva does one thing - solid, consistent damage with a long reach. Pre-cuddle Levy had a similar sort of reach and damage, with higher mobility, better summoning, and more versatility.

 

[Fetid Strumpet]

And Levi has better survivability.

[benjoewoo]

I made a poor typo on the reduction ignoring trigger requiring a corpse--whoops. Ignoring damage reduction is a crow trigger that competes with the other crow only trigger Reva has for +1 damage for a corpse discarded within 3" of the target. 

As to Sandeep, yes, totally misread/mis-remembered how the tome trigger works--it's once per turn. But, the trigger is built in on one of the actions, and other models can copy, with some restrictions, his other actions, including 0s. So, while an oxfordian mage can't furiously cast 3x of any given spell, it can ensure any given Ca action has the tome to trigger for Sandeep. Also, while Sandeep can't trigger several times for himself to cast, all non-peons within range and LoS have the ability to cast his stuff--different than what I said by far, I admit, but numerically can result in the same number of Master level AP with a slight debuff (-1 Ca).

And yes, I greatly misunderstood how Nellie worked in cheating damage only for herself. I think I mistook the ability for the defensive push Nellie can give friendly journalists or the defensive trigger one of Nellie's box upgrades gives journalists--I cannot remember if the upgrade goes on Phiona or Nellie. I also rushed my post in just whole sale listing some of the things she can do, mistakenly stating they all applied to each other. However, they do all apply. Nellie can cheat damage regardless of jokers against herself. Field Reporters have Manipulative and Disguised. Nellie can aid her journalists by giving them/enemy models pushes based on who fails the attack action. One of her upgrades allows her to choose from a selection of bonus, positive effects based on her Evidence +X value, ranging form healing damage to summoning a model. 

With the exception that Sandeep cannot use the tome trigger multiple times a turn--instead all other minions have to use them at a -1Ca, I don't think I too majorly misstated some basics of the masters. I didn't mistake the number of times Sandeep's master level moves could be used--albeit at a negative penalty--and other than who Nellie could cheat damage for, I didn't make a mistake in stating basic other mechanics she has access to out of her crew box.

Math, you pointed out I made a bad argument regarding corpse marker tech. I may not have been clear in how I said it, but I was trying to state that the unavailability of good anti-corpse marker tech for all factions should not be a reason Reva is considered overpowered--I think the argument was originally that providing examples of anti-corpse marker tech was fruitless because gremlins don't have access to great anti-corpse marker tech. Anti-corpse marker is a specific kind of tech that supplements other in game choices that should help players beat Reva or hinder her to achieve a victory--that there are options indicates Reva is less powerful than initially described by some. I phrased it originally in more words and significantly less clearly.

[Pinocchio]

Just curious on people's thoughts on this idea that i've been experimenting with.

Turn 1 Rogue Necromancy (or "Rogue One" for short!)

Reva w/Spare parts (and whatever other upgrades you want to add)

Mortimer w/Corpse Bloat and My Little Helper.

Activate Mort + MLH, get 3 corpse markers.

Activate Reva, burn a card for the Candle, kill the candle and spawn a Rogue Necromancy on 11+ of Crows.

Been using this combo when there is Frame for Murder and/or Hunting Party in the pool. I find that with FFM Reva has to switch from being the primary beatstick to being a summoner/scheme runner plus if she isn't going to smack anyone on turn 1, she might as well put it to good use getting a 10ss model on the table that can wreck face if it isn't dealt with. Plus I tend to put FFM on Mort because he is already low on wounds and some people get into the whole red mist of killing an easy target, and if they don't... wp13 checks anyone? 

[Pinocchio]

Nope, that's the whole point of mortimer, you get 3 corpse markers, you summon the candle kill it and then summon RN and this can all be done on the first turn. From turn 2 onwards you can then use Reva to do whatever she needs to be doing.

[Saduhem]

If you're finding good use out of Morty that doesn't sound bad at all! Otherwise you might just want to hire a full AP Rogue Necromancy instead and not pay almost the same amount of Stones on Morty + upgrades. I also think that summoning with Spare parts is a 2 AP cast for the Necromancy.

Overall you're trading 2 master AP, a Henchman activation, 2 high cards and 6 wounds in favor of an additional model and more activation control.

It may be well with it if Morty is pulling his weight the rest of the match, not so much otherwise

 

[Pinocchio]

The only issue i had with Guises of Death (GoD) is that the first candle has to be summoned on the opponent's half of the board. So unless your opponent kills the candle, it walks back and drops a marker. I guess with the second one, you can leap onto it, kill it but then you need to be in range of all the markers to get it off (unless you have a doxy on standby to push you around).

[TheTrans]

Seems like a lot of stones/work for the model.

Could you not just have Reva do her normal stuff turn 1 spit out a corpse candle and have it killed by something un exciting(1 Corpse), get a hound to dig up a bone (2 Corpses), Carrion Emmisary puts a corpse near by (3 Corpses) then when Reva next activates, kill the new corpse candle (4) then summon the rogue.

Still seems a lot of work for what you need. 

[Math Mathonwy]

6 hours ago, TheTrans said:

Seems like a lot of stones/work for the model.

Could you not just have Reva do her normal stuff turn 1 spit out a corpse candle and have it killed by something un exciting(1 Corpse), get a hound to dig up a bone (2 Corpses), Carrion Emmisary puts a corpse near by (3 Corpses) then when Reva next activates, kill the new corpse candle (4) then summon the rogue.

Still seems a lot of work for what you need. 

Relying on Canines to find corpses is extremely risky.