Reva wrecking face?

[Manic Mouse]

If I was a Reva player I would never, ever, have her in combat. She doesn't need to be in order to be effective, all it does is give your opponent the opportunity to hit her back rather than getting to attack them with impunity.

Yes if you run her at the enemy obviously she will die. Most masters will. The issue I (and many others) have is that she can attack from so far away as to be able to do so from complete safety, and many masters have literally no way of stopping her doing that. Anybody can play to counter Raspy's nodes by engaging models and using cover. But unless you have the ability to destroy corpse markers all you can do is avoid portions of the board against Reva (which is also game losing). If you're running Reva in and playing her "aggressively" then you're playing her badly when you can simply sit back and hit people with zero danger to yourself.

As for terrain - unless you fill the board with Ht 3 blocking terrain Reva will be able to see large portions of the board regardless of where she is. Not the entire board, no, but certainly more than enough to have multiple options to smack someone from complete safety (or force opponents to simply avoid multiple 7" diameter areas of the board), often mobile that you have to waste AP not even to remove but simply make stationary. And remember - Reva only needs LOS to the marker, you can be hiding around a corner and she can still attack you. She is often choosing where the markers are - so even if you have Ht 3 terrain she can often still attack you around it despite having no LOS to you.

Serious question to the "Reva is fine" guys - how do I deal with her playing as a crew that cannot remove corpse markers and we're playing, for example, a strategy that requires us to the in the middle or centre line of the table? She moves her stuff up and sits at her deployment zone attacking through mindless zombies and corpse candles, I can waste AP killing them and simply making her nodes immobile. That's it. Unless I walk someone all the way to the opponents deployment zone, wading through her crew in the process. There is simply nothing I can do to stop her commanding the centre (as a single model) from complete safety.

[Kadeton]

14 minutes ago, Manic Mouse said:

But unless you have the ability to destroy corpse markers all you can do is avoid portions of the board against Reva (which is also game losing).

Any model that is Ht 3+ can potentially block Reva's LoS to a Corpse. Any model with a base larger than 30mm will block her LoS to a Corpse it is standing on. There are a lot of models like that in the game.

Corpse Markers are also Ht 0 and 30mm, and that's what Reva is drawing LoS from when she makes her attack. If there's a specific model you want to protect from a nearby Corpse, you can block the Corpse's LoS with sacrificial chaff, or something in your crew with high enough Df and Wp that it's a serious effort for Reva to succeed on attacks against them.

If all else fails, you already know you're going up against Ressers - why not bring something that destroys Corpses? It's probably a good investment anyway.

[Adran]

7 hours ago, benjoewoo said:

 

As a quick note, on a hyper technical level, if you have Ht 2 huts or buildings generally with flat roofs, you've defined a building or set of them for Malifaux's children and totems, because Ht 2 models cannot fit inside the door or the building even if they get into the door.

 

Really? I can't find a single thing in the rules that suggests that. 

Something that is Ht 2 has up to a inch more than a Ht2 person, which is 3'. I live in an old victorian terrace. The Extension on the back, and the rooms inside the house are well under 9 foot high, which is what they ought to be to be Ht 3 in the game. I'm over 6 foot and fit inside them fine. (I justneed to make sure the Light shades are near to the ceiling)

1 hour ago, Manic Mouse said:

Serious question to the "Reva is fine" guys - how do I deal with her playing as a crew that cannot remove corpse markers and we're playing, for example, a strategy that requires us to the in the middle or centre line of the table? She moves her stuff up and sits at her deployment zone attacking through mindless zombies and corpse candles, I can waste AP killing them and simply making her nodes immobile. That's it. Unless I walk someone all the way to the opponents deployment zone, wading through her crew in the process. There is simply nothing I can do to stop her commanding the centre (as a single model) from complete safety.

How would you deal with Rasputinsa in the same situation? After all, she can be controlling the same space and she can do it with an Ice mirror that is pretty far from the area threatened, so it can also be behind her crew, and forcing you to wade through to stop it?

Some serious options. 

1 Use pushes rather than killing. If you have ways to push the Zombies and the candles away, then you aren't a target. You can combine this with Killing them, so the corpses die in a less useful place. 

2 Use durable models. Accept that you are going to have a master swinging for 9 damage in its turn. Select models that can survive that sort of thing. 

3 Use fast models. be able to get past your opponents crew and engage Reva. 

4 Pick on the rest of her crew. If you are playign a game where you need to be near the center of the board to score, and your opponent smaster hasn't left her deployment zone, let her do her stuff, and you can focus on removing the models that have reached the scoring area. 

5 Penaliase Ca Actions. Not all crews can do this, But there are several that can, and Reva is a lot less scary when she can't attack. And Ca Actions are easier to penalise than Sh or Ml. 

6 Control Line of sight. 

 

You could easily say that 1 is no use, Reva can just Muhuahua the  marker back into Zombies so they can move in (But this has range issues).   2 is no us because she can buy an upgrade to ignore armor and other defenses. 3 is no good because she can take the upgrade that allows her to use strength of the fallen even if engaged. 4 is no good, because your crew can't survive her attacks (In which case how would you survive her attacks if she was there in person?). 

But whist Reva can counter the obvious solutions to 1-3, then she has spent her 3 upgrade slots on doing that. 

 

 

 

[solkan]

42 minutes ago, Adran said:

Really? I can't find a single thing in the rules that suggests that. 

Something that is Ht 2 has up to a inch more than a Ht2 person, which is 3'. I live in an old victorian terrace. The Extension on the back, and the rooms inside the house are well under 9 foot high, which is what they ought to be to be Ht 3 in the game. I'm over 6 foot and fit inside them fine. (I justneed to make sure the Light shades are near to the ceiling)

Likewise, can you point out where in the rules the scale is specified as 1 inch being three feet, or 1 unit of Ht being three feet?

That certainly doesn't appear to be the consistent model scale.  (Cases in point:  Howard Langston, and Ryle.)

[Kadeton]

2 hours ago, Manic Mouse said:

Serious question to the "Reva is fine" guys - how do I deal with her playing as a crew that cannot remove corpse markers and we're playing, for example, a strategy that requires us to the in the middle or centre line of the table? She moves her stuff up and sits at her deployment zone attacking through mindless zombies and corpse candles, I can waste AP killing them and simply making her nodes immobile. That's it. Unless I walk someone all the way to the opponents deployment zone, wading through her crew in the process. There is simply nothing I can do to stop her commanding the centre (as a single model) from complete safety.

For starters, I'd be working out where all these Mindless Zombies and Corpse Candles are coming from. She'll probably start with one Candle, and summon another every turn. She might have an offsider pulling out one Corpse a turn that she can Muahahaha into a Zombie. I presume she's spending some AP moving those Zombies and Candles up toward the centreline on turns 1 and 2, otherwise they're very slow to arrive. That means I have very little to worry about from Reva for the first two turns.

Given two turns for my Master and crew to handle the rest of her crew, they're either going to be hanging back with Reva or dying to my models, because I can apply more pressure than Reva can while she's setting up the Corpse field. Now I'm up on the objectives in force, scoring points, and she's not. My crew can presumably handle taking ~9-12 Wds of beating for a couple of turns, via whatever resilience mechanic they use (summoning, healing, high stats, high Wds, controlling LoS, anti-Ca defenses), and I can limit which models she can attack by controlling their placement in relation to any nearby Corpses. If I think it's necessary, I'll send some models to engage and harass her, but for the most part we'll just kill everything else that gets close, play the schemes, take our lumps, and win.

[Kadeton]

32 minutes ago, solkan said:

Likewise, can you point out where in the rules the scale is specified as 1 inch being three feet, or 1 unit of Ht being three feet?

That certainly doesn't appear to be the consistent model scale.

It's worth noting that Ht is a range, not a threshold, and there's clearly a bit of overlap. Maybe think of it more in these rough terms:

Ht 0: 0 to 2'
Ht 1: 1' to 4'
Ht 2: 4' to 7'
Ht 3: 6' to 9'
Ht 4: 8' to 11'

Et cetera. Most buildings that humans would be comfortable living in would be Ht 3 (per storey). Huts and shanties that most people would not be able to stand up straight in could be Ht 2.

When measuring terrain, it pays to be generous - I'd usually suggest rounding up, so that something 2 1/4" tall would be Ht 3, for example. I realise that goes against the "Define and Place Terrain" guidelines (p. 60), but I've found it works much better in play.

I think it's pretty funny that dealing with high-powered ranged models in previous waves boiled down to "Use more terrain", and now when dealing with this new high-powered Ht 3 model that only requires an adjustment to "Use more Ht 3 terrain". Good times.

[Math Mathonwy]

While I agree with the general gist of "use more terrain" it must be noted that Shards become a lot more potent if there's a huge amount of impassable Ht3 blocking terrain. Especially double shards. Even if the shards don't block off the enemy crew and win the game on their own, they are good at funneling enemy models into certain areas so Reva can concentrate her LoS end effect there.

Just to note. Like I said, I agree with the general gist of the message.

[Kadeton]

Yeah, too much Impassable can be a problem for sure. We tend to go for a few Ht 3+ buildings and plenty of Ht 5 woods (Severe, Dense etc).

I played Reva against Rasputina this evening, and damn do those Ice Pillars mess with Reva's scope for projecting her attacks.

[Bengt]

Is Muwahahaha really that useful for Reva? Range is not that great (8") and Mindless Zombies are as slow as it gets. Most players seems to keep her pretty far back?

---

Regarding Ht, most models are rounded up in my experience. There are a few outliers but e.g. the typical Ht 2 model is like 40 mm (~1.6") tall. So I tend to round up for terrain as well, within reason, something that is ~2.1" will probably be Ht 2, but taller will be Ht 3.

[Paddywhack]

8 hours ago, Kadeton said:

If all else fails, you already know you're going up against Ressers - why not bring something that destroys Corpses? It's probably a good investment anyway.

Other than Ressurs, Lady J and some summoners there aren't that many ways to get rid of corpses I can think of. A lot of models get rid of Scheme markers, but I had trouble finding many that could get rid of corpses, though I am not an expert in all the factions. I was looking in TTs though and had trouble finding much. Maybe we should start a list?

It also leads to having to build your crew specifically to face Reva rather than building a crew based on schemes/strats, which I think is generally a bad precedent. 

[Paddywhack]

41 minutes ago, Kadeton said:

I played Reva against Rasputina this evening, and damn do those Ice Pillars mess with Reva's scope for projecting her attacks.

Those ice pillars, especially if they took the Wendigo too, really mess with ANY crew. I hate those things 

[Paddywhack]

38 minutes ago, Bengt said:

Is Muwahahaha really that useful for Reva? Range is not that great (8") and Mindless Zombies are as slow as it gets. Most players seems to keep her pretty far back?

I would say that Muwahahaha is really only necessary if you think you are facing another summoner that can use your corpse markers against you. Then it can be very useful to keep them safe. And even if slow, sometimes being able to move your attack node a few inches can make a huge difference. 

[Wifstrand]

I agree with Paddywhack. After like 5 games with Reva, I haven't had one instance where I wish I had been able to use Maniacal Laughter.

[benjoewoo]

As a quick note to Adran, my source for the rules thought was an inference from the Ht mechanic, not a written down rule. Ht as a stat represents the relative presence of the model--not the book definition, but the book does say that the base and Ht are representative of the area the model is in when considering it would be bobbing and weaving in fluff representation. Because of that, they are always Ht 2 in representation, despite scaling.

A Ht 2 model then shouldn't fit in a building that has only Ht 2 walls with a flat roof on rules then, because that would mean the Ht 2 model has to be shorter than Ht 2 to fit inside. Comparison of what Ht 2 and 3 would be to real life or fluff reality shouldn't affect that.

If you could point to a rule that shows I'm wrong then I'm foolish for not reading it. My current understanding is that mechanically, you can't put Ht 2 models under a Ht 2 only ceiling terrain, even if you had appropriately sized openings to go through. 

I'm ignoring defining terrain as having exceptions, e.g. you say a bridge's top surface is Ht 2, so the underpass is necessarily < Ht 2, but you allow models to pass by on the condition they do not stop under the bridge. 

As for Muahahahaha, I think it's corpse protection, as paddywhack noted, and for activation control, as Reva will generally want more elite units.

[Bengt]

1 hour ago, benjoewoo said:

If you could point to a rule that shows I'm wrong then I'm foolish for not reading it. My current understanding is that mechanically, you can't put Ht 2 models under a Ht 2 only ceiling terrain, even if you had appropriately sized openings to go through. 

I'm ignoring defining terrain as having exceptions, e.g. you say a bridge's top surface is Ht 2, so the underpass is necessarily < Ht 2, but you allow models to pass by on the condition they do not stop under the bridge. 

With the elevation rules in Malifaux being rather rudimentary, the concept of being under something does not exist. Walkways, bridges, overhangs etc has no support and require house rules if you want them to function in an intuitive way, including people knocking their heads.  

[Paddywhack]

All the Shieldbearers also have the Dismember trigger which drops corpses with a , which Reva doesn't need. One game I managed 3-4 just on that. Plus the shield bearers drop a corpse half way through their lives, so they remain on the board and you get another node. Archie and the Emissary are also able to create free corpses. Oh, and Anna Lovelace. 

I wasn't expecting just how many corpses I was able to get on a table. Even against Asami whose crew doesn't always drop a lot of corpses (Oni) I didn't have any trouble getting them where I wanted really. 

[Bengt]

1 hour ago, aquenaton said:

Arcanists also struggle

Arcane Emissary has a  to remove corpses when it charges.

[hydranixx]

15 minutes ago, Bengt said:

Arcane Emissary has a  to remove corpses when it charges.

To be fair, he's also gonna add more corpses after his charge . But, yeah, any form of corpse removal is welcome against Ressers. Coupled with a 4/4/5 attack (Hard to Wound? Ha) he seems particularly versatile against the undead.

Mei has an upgrade to destroy all markers within 3". Honestly though, if I picked Mei and found out I was against Reva, I'd just Vent that Steam all day. Mei seems perfectly capable of shutting down both Reva and Vince with 2 casts each activation and will easily be able to keep up with everyone else with Railwalking.

Have any Reva players here played against Mei? Or vice versa?

[benjoewoo]

Aionus, a mercenary, literally moves a non-strategy related marker of any type at range for a 3 tome as a 0 action with . As printed he can move one marker per turn, but you probably only need to move one marker per turn to mitigate the most deadly corpse node.

He can as a side note mitigate Reva's reach by giving your critical/vulnerable models fast, so they can more easily position away from dangerous areas. This option is available to everyone, though on higher costed models can be taxing.

Also, most factions have at least one master that can punt damage, which gets by Reva and Vincents' abilities for anti-prevention/reduction.

Does that seem like match up specific advice that turns away from building an all comer crew? Yes, but part of Malifaux is risking your game on building a crew to counter what you think your opponent will play. Off the beaten path masters bring that edge in the game because you play them as a tool to catch your opponent off guard.

People ask for how to play around Lilith in the Resser forum, including what models to take. The advice on taking specific counter models as opposed to general anti-Neverborn tactics or generally good anti-Neverborn models is near useless unless you know Lilith is coming, because Neverborn Lucius isn't the same play style, and neither is a more common Neverborn master like summoner Dreamer. From the other side, playing Neverborn Lucius can get you the same surprise effect because people aren't as likely to expect it compared to the big names like Lilith, Pandora, and Dreamer. 

Malifaux is balanced across factions at 50SS for 2nd edition--the key part for this post is balanced across factions. It means that no particular faction has something they can do that just destroys the entire field. There are factions with good answers to Reva, but not all of them. You'll face weak match ups and you'll face favorable ones--it's part of playing a game with asymmetrical setups. If you want to beat the Resser faction, play a faction or master that deals very well with it as a whole, not just any particular master unless you know your opponent will play that master. Fixed master events are real, so it's possible.

 

26 minutes ago, aquenaton said:

So, reva will always have corpses near (new candles) and in the middle of the combat. It seems a powerful ranged crew is the best way to counter her? Killing everything at range seems like the only way of not being shot by her...

 

She will not always have corpses in the middle of combat. If you disable all of the things that could generate corpse counters, particularly those that do so without dying like the Emissary, models with the Dismember trigger, etc., then she has a tough time generating markers outside of her activation and has to manually set up her markers, which can only be done within 9.1811". Reva with her charge upgrade can charge to the side of a summoned candle, get the trigger with a tome, and then charge for essentially a 15" attack on one model. But, if she does this, she's engaged and can no longer use her Strength of the Fallen ability without killing the enemy model(s) she's now engaged with. Reva only has 3AP and has no way to generate additional attacks if she does this. 

The maximum number of attacks she can get in an activation is 5, between the 3 AP of melee attacks against Df or Wp with a Ca 6 skill, the charge trigger to generate an additional attack as mentioned, and her 0 that does damage based on duel total difference. Getting all 5 attacks requires two tomes outside of built in suits, so that's two high tomes or SS for said tomes plus high cards. Assuming she hits all of her attacks, she can do between (excluding jokers) 17-29 damage to a single target in 5 instances, with 14-24 of it done to trigger hard to kill. 

Reva is a powerful ranged master, but she pretty much just does that: hit you from range. She doesn't get better in melee vs. siege tank mode, and you probably won't out shoot her unless you're talking a sniper model like Hanz. She doesn't provide much direct support to her crew on her card--pretty much only her totem(s) and blood mark do, and the latter's opportunity cost to use isn't very good. 

Assassination masters, crews, or models with balanced defensive stats will do decently. It's hard to give advice without knowing your faction. For example, Guild has Lady J. Arcanists have Raspy, who generally plays with Frozen Heart models, and one of Raspy's shticks is that if you damage a Frozen Heart model with a melee attack, the attacking model's activation ends. See point 48 on FAQ & Errata--Reva can only declare and actually get the damage buff trigger or either trigger from her limited upgrades.

[entropolous]

2 hours ago, benjoewoo said:

one of Raspy's shticks is that if you damage a Frozen Heart model with a melee attack, the attacking model's activation ends. 

Reva's attacks are Ca's actions so this doesn't help much

[Kadeton]

In my last game with her, I found I was getting far more use out of Blood Mark to push models around (either to score or prevent the opponent from scoring) than I was out of Ethereal Reaping.

Her killing potential was certainly realised - turn 1 she straight-up killed a December Acolyte that was threatening to disrupt Vincent's plans, and with Vincent's help killed a Silent One on turn 2 - but after that there were rarely opportunities where just sitting back and dealing damage was the best option. My opponent had cannily drawn Yin away from the action by having Myranda (with an assumed Undercover Entourage mission) sprinting for the end zone with Yin the only model in position to counter her; liberal application of December's Touch made attacking any of the opponent's key models without Vincent's Light At The End softening them up first basically pointless; the enemy were busily engaging and Exhausting my forces, and had secured the Self-Righteous Man deep into their territory. It made much more sense to Blood Mark models into position to score, or to remove the Exhausted condition, than to plink off some damage and let my opponent walk away with the game.

"Sit back and nuke" Reva's main problem (apart from the obvious issue that killing models doesn't often score you points) is hard targets. Those big, scary Henchmen, Masters and expensive Enforcers - the ones with Df/Wp 6+, plenty of Wds, and other defensive abilities - are not something she can easily take down unless you're also comboing Yin and Vincent onto the victim. If you manage to do that (which isn't necessarily trivial, since their relevant abilities are (0) actions with Ca 6, relatively short range and a suit requirement in Vincent's case) then yeah, that big tough thing is probably going to evaporate... on the other hand, I can't think of many models in the game that can happily tank the attentions of an Enforcer, Henchman and combat Master for a turn. While Reva may be able to camp out in relative safety if there are already Corpses in place, the other pieces of her attack pattern need to get pretty close to the enemy, and without them she's limited to picking on cheap, vulnerable models instead.

I expect to end up using Reva mainly for her mobility, and as a pinch-hitter when a good opportunity arises. Sure, if it's a game where killing things is the aim, and my opponent is just letting me get away with that, she can happily sit back and blast away, but I don't expect that to be her modus operandi. She has plenty of difficult matchups - anyone that can disrupt her LoS, or remove Corpses, or interfere with Ca attacks, or match her threat range, or avoid or tank her damage, is going to be a problem.

[Goret]

3 hours ago, Kadeton said:

I expect to end up using Reva mainly for her mobility, and as a pinch-hitter when a good opportunity arises. Sure, if it's a game where killing things is the aim, and my opponent is just letting me get away with that, she can happily sit back and blast away, but I don't expect that to be her modus operandi. She has plenty of difficult matchups - anyone that can disrupt her LoS, or remove Corpses, or interfere with Ca attacks, or match her threat range, or avoid or tank her damage, is going to be a problem.

This is as i see it too.

Running schemes against her which require you to get into the opponents half of the board will be really difficult. Thats where i would be hiding corpse candles  for her to use and take out scheme runners or just use her speed. In the game i played against her, it's when my opponent got frustrated not having corpses to attack through and he decided to charge her in that i was able to jump out my 2 Necropunks with "fast" to score covert breakthrough. My necropunks had been trying to find an opening for 3 turns before being able to do their job. Vincent on one side and Reva in the middle were a scary prospect for 2 scheme runners, as good as necropunks are.

Even with Vincent's debuff, a ss-user will still be able to cheat a few DF flips if needed and survive a beating.

I am far more scared of Sonia Criid with a Papa loco on dmg hitting a minion and doing blast damage on nearby models 3x a turn than Reva. But sonia has far less mobility than Reva and either needs burning or shoot her own models to take out hiding models.

[Manic Mouse]

I don't buy the "she can't deal with beat sticks" at range argument.

Most big dangerous models have low Df, high Wds and damage mitigation abilities like H2W, armour etc. Reva is basically  designed to kill such models with 3 min damage that cannot be reduced and Ca 6 that can pick the lower of Wp or Df, and ignores most defensive abilities including defensive stance by attacking Wp.

Even against "high Df models" she is fine - unless you're saying there are a lot of Df 7 models in the game that have a better chance of evading her attacks than her hitting? You also get to pick Wp if that's lower anyway. At worst she has a 50/50 chance of hitting unless she's hitting someone with Df 7 Wp7 - and I don't think many models have that stat line.

22 hours ago, Adran said:

 

[Khaiden]

What kind of reactions do you got from your opponents when you play Reva? What do they find annoying?



 

[benjoewoo]

7 hours ago, entropolous said:

Reva's attacks are Ca's actions so this doesn't help much

Whoops I thought it was for melee attacks generally, not Ml attacks. Need to read closer--I was thinking about the counter but didn't double check well enough.

1 hour ago, Manic Mouse said:

I don't buy the "she can't deal with beat sticks" at range argument.

Most big dangerous models have low Df, high Wds and damage mitigation abilities like H2W, armour etc. Reva is basically  designed to kill such models with 3 min damage that cannot be reduced and Ca 6 that can pick the lower of Wp or Df, and ignores most defensive abilities including defensive stance by attacking Wp.

Even against "high Df models" she is fine - unless you're saying there are a lot of Df 7 models in the game that have a better chance of evading her attacks than her hitting? You also get to pick Wp if that's lower anyway. At worst she has a 50/50 chance of hitting unless she's hitting someone with Df 7 Wp7 - and I don't think many models have that stat line.

If you're talking the faction's non-emissary 50mm enforcer models such as Teddy, Ice Golem, etc., then you're right. But, plenty of models have Df/Wp 6/6 with some form of mitigation--many henchmen and a significant number of enforcers. It's the skill rating comparisons that matter I think, because Ca 6 is above average, but in no way a guarantee. Picking off scheme runners? Generally yes. Destroying a henchmen/enforcer in one activation? Can be very difficult. See my below mini-report. I was going to post in the battle reports section, but this summary is short enough I don't feel out of place.

 

We started a slow grow league at my local store today (Emerald Knights in Burbank, Southern California!) and I chose Reva, because I wanted to stay Ressers, I'm already a Seamus player, don't really want to play McM, and the other Resser masters are unplayable out of the box--Weeks 1 & 2 we're limited to the box basically. My opponent played Marcus' box. We made an exception that he could play with Arcane Reservoir and I could use Decaying Aura and Corpse Bloat because with box only upgrades, I couldn't make it to the 35SS limit without wasting a stone.

Strategy & Schemes: Guard the Stash, Convict Labor, Exhaust their Forces, Show of Force, Catch and Release, Occupy Their Turf

Deployment: (Reva deployed first) Standard, Terrain--a town with 6 or so Ht 6/7 multi-floor buildings that have various windows and broken walls for LoS, some platforms with ramps/stairs, and various scatter items to make charging somewhat difficult--we knew only Vincent could shoot, and cover was mostly hard with the scatter in the middle being soft.

Crews:

• Reva with 6SS start, candle summon, decaying aura, litany of the fallen, vincent with corpse bloat (upgrade was never relevant), 3x shield bearers. Took Show of Force and Convict Labor
• Marcus with cache, trail of the gods, Myranda with Arcane Reservoir, cerberus, cojo, and rattler. I may be wrong on upgrade placement, but Marcus didn't have any other relevant upgrades I think. Took Convict Labor and Exhaust

So Marcus is pretty strong out of his box as well, running all henchmen and enforcer models that do good damage with great, capable reaching melee attacks. We figured this would be a good opening match for us after talking about the mixed feelings on Reva's power level.

Turn 1 was pretty boring. I went first and had Vincent use his 0 on one of my shield bearers so I could stone and give all 3 shield bearers fast--I actually hit the move despite not relenting--I knew I needed to save my hand for Reva's activation, and I unfortunately flipped low with the shield bearer (or fortunately since it got rid of a low card). With fast, all 3 shield bearers were able to drop markers Turn 1 to set up convict labor prior to combat. Reva attempted to kill Cojo, putting him at 1 Wd after HtK by missing the last attack.

Turn 2 had a lot of play and counter play to deny points. I activated Reva and literally missed all but one attack against Cojoputting Cojo back to 1Wd after a Myranda heal--skill rating 6 against Df 5 is surprisingly hard to hit. A shield bearer ultimately finishes Cojo, but otherwise no significant action. Marcus denies me convict labor. Score is 2:1 because I get Show of Force and Strat, Marcus gets Strat.

Turn 3 is again plays and counter plays. Marcus wins initiative who has Myranda hit a shield bearer before sacrificing herself to bring back Cojo. Reva comes in and damages the cerberus by teleporting to a corpse candle, charging the Cerberus. Reva creates a scheme marker with her last AP so that I will score Convict Labor if Marcus walks away from the scheme marker he's near. Marcus eventually denies it anyway because Cojo eats one of my markers and the Rattler engages my third marker. Score is 4:2 for same reasons as Turn 2.

Turn 4 is mostly clean up by Marcus. He uses Marcus to charge, get a free melee from trail, and accomplices Cerberus to beat up Reva, putting her at 2 wounds between the attacks, SS, and cheating. Revak ills the Cerberus, healing to 5 with a ram trigger, and uses her other 2 AP to do some damage to Cojo before teleporting to a candle to avoid LoS with Marcus and out of range of Cojo, who is engaged with a shield bearer. Cojo walks, misses a melee on Reva, and eats my scheme marker to again deny me convict labor. Highlight of the game because it forced the tie due to my own mistake--Vincent attempts to walk away from Rattler and almost does, but ultimately dies to a RJ damage flip from Rattler, who has wicked--6 damage would kill Vincent barring a RJ prevention, but I had already flipped my RJ. Had Vincent not died, I would have gotten both guard the stash and the third point from show of force, which may have won the game for me. Score is 4:3 because Marcus scores the strat.

Turn 5 I win initiative, and by this point know he has two out of Convict, Exhaust, and Catch and Release. I figure he has Exhaust, but have to activate a surviving candle first and just doing nothing really because killing my shield bearer and booking it would seal a win for Marcus if he has convict labor. Marcus attempts to kill Reva, but fails because of a bad hand, my decent flips, cheating, and a SS, putting Reva at 3Wds. Now that Marcus cannot get Convict, I know he can only score if he has Exhaust. Reva activates, kills shield bearer once to give him the Df duel upgrade that may will kill Reva on a moderate flip, and kills shield bearer with a focused attack that gets moderate damage. Reva teleports to a candle she summoned far away from the fight, onto one of the second floors of a building just over 6" away. We call the game here because neither Cojo or Rattler can exhaust Reva and Marcus cannot score convict this round. End score: 4:4.

In the post game discussion, my opponent, myself, and some observers noted how resilient shield bearers were despite being pounded on by Marcus' alpha strike enforcer box. It was also interesting to see how effective they could be as scheme runners for an early SS use--if I had another henchmen, it'd be relatively easier to spend the SS without gimping myself. We discussed why my opponent hadn't gone for his schemes, and he mentioned he was really concerned about Reva's range to the point of distraction. At least in this instance, I couldn't place enough effective corpse markers. Even when I had the ability to use them, I couldn't use my triggers effectively--Reva's triggers aren't bad, but they weren't often useful without enough well positioned corpse markers to discard for plus +1 damage; there were a lot of corpses, but half were just never relevant. The push was never relevant, and the no reduction trigger from Littany wasn't relevant in this matchup--it was there to get to 35SS without wasting a stone.

In hindsight, had my opponent opted to go for exhaust and convict, the game likely would have been a tie with more points on both sides given his models' relatively slow movement, no access to "extra" AP, and lack of model count to both accomplish interact heavy schemes and deny my own schemes. I might have been able to force a win with activation control and denial from corpse candles, but either way, pure scheme running with minor fighting vs. hard fighting and scheme denial would be a hard match. 

My opponent and I both had fun, and considering Marcus basically tabled me in a roughly equal playing field, I continue to think her killing power is not particularly overpowered. 18" feels short fast when you need to put her out of the way of enforcer charges while setting up for attacks. While an additional model would have made it easier, e.g. the Emissary, Marcus would have chosen another effective model as well. Again, I feel the roughly equal playing field still gave some accurate insight into Reva's strengths and weaknesses as released. She can do work--almost killed Cojo in one activation twice--but her triggers will often feel irrelevant. I couldn't effectively use any of her triggers other than the ram trigger to heal once and the no-reduction trigger from Littany to ensure a kill on my own shield bearer for denial. 

I wouldn't say my opponent or I are extremely skilled, but we're probably about average or slightly above with our main masters. We were playing "new" masters, so our play wasn't refined, but we did what the crews want to do: get high damage attacks via long range or AP manipulation to create VP opportunities. Reva is admittedly good out of the box, but roughly the same as Marcus' box from my perspective.