A Competitive Lucius ?

[Clyde_Davis]

I've been playing a couple of games in a row with Lucius and I think I've cracked a competitive list with him.. I've tested it against Zoraida, Parker and Ironsides and the crew has been a victorious match-up in these occasions... 

My list is:

Lucius (Hidden Assets, Surprisingly Loyal, Legalese)

Master Queeg

2 Lawyers

2 Changelings 

3 Waldgeist

The crew is very durable and tanky and packs that needed punch that Lucius was missing.. 

[Ludvig]

Interesting list. What sort of pools have you been playing?

[4thstringer]

Where is it getting punch from?   I don't see Any big hitters, and if you lose those changelings (which are quite fragile)you really lack hitting power.

[Vorschlag]

Nice, I'm also presently convinced that Lucius works best in lists with as many 6-7 stone models as you can fit in, Given the limitation on "Germinate" is Queeg really in there for the scheme markers or spam "impassioned defence" and "in the blink of an eye" 

[Ludvig]

Queeg and a Waldgeist sounds like a fun combo to push people out so they get seriously tarpitted by the geists. That's some control at least.

I'm not seing the punch in this list. Durability on everything except the geists is also questionable. Looks to me like one turn of Sonnia later and you are left with just your Walgeists. That's why I wanted to know about the scenarios (scheme + strats) played.

Marker schemes should be very doable but the classic setup of Interference with Hunting party and Show of force (that I flip about half of all my flips for strategy) seems kinda rough on this list.

[Clyde_Davis]

You're underestimating the durability.. the lawyers can spam impassioned defence with Queeg or if you prefer/need to, spam germinate.. Also Lucius' Commanding Presence allows you to move the changelings and geists around without losing their defense abilities.. Also Lucius' What Lackeys Are For is very useful to reposition a geist or changeling where you need them (again with out having to activate them and losing their defensive abilities).. 

In my experience with the Changelings, they have been great beatstick counters.. It's about putting them by the right enemy models.. I've taken down Johan, Parker and Rail Golem with amazing contributions from the little guys.. With 9 minions and AP spam you're not only out activating your opponent in most cases but also getting in extra hits.. Plus the positives if they're within 3" of Lucius.. it's about knowing when to activate your little guys and how to position them..

I'm not saying there aren't any crews that this crew won't struggle against.. That's the nature of Malifaux.. I've faced McTavish and Oxfordian Mages that make short work of geists, and the crew still proves quite durable.. I've just had more success with this list than I have with any other Lucius build.. And I know many folks on the NB forum have struggled to find working competitive lists with Lucius, so I thought I'd share my experiences.. 

[Paksos]

I've had a of of joy using Lucius with 1 lawyer, primordial magic and a host of nephilim. Lucius commanding the terror tots to sprint can get them into the enemy deployment zone on turn 1 and the. In later turns you can charge enemies with the young nephilim and make Lucius order the young nephilim to finish the target off out of their activation if it's still alive 

[Clyde_Davis]

5 hours ago, Paksos said:

I've had a of of joy using Lucius with 1 lawyer, primordial magic and a host of nephilim. Lucius commanding the terror tots to sprint can get them into the enemy deployment zone on turn 1 and the. In later turns you can charge enemies with the young nephilim and make Lucius order the young nephilim to finish the target off out of their activation if it's still alive 

I'all give that a go!

[Ludvig]

 

12 hours ago, Clyde_Davis said:

You're underestimating the durability.. the lawyers can spam impassioned defence with Queeg or if you prefer/need to, spam germinate.. Also Lucius' Commanding Presence allows you to move the changelings and geists around without losing their defense abilities.. Also Lucius' What Lackeys Are For is very useful to reposition a geist or changeling where you need them (again with out having to activate them and losing their defensive abilities).. 

In my experience with the Changelings, they have been great beatstick counters.. It's about putting them by the right enemy models.. I've taken down Johan, Parker and Rail Golem with amazing contributions from the little guys.. With 9 minions and AP spam you're not only out activating your opponent in most cases but also getting in extra hits.. Plus the positives if they're within 3" of Lucius.. it's about knowing when to activate your little guys and how to position them..

I'm not saying there aren't any crews that this crew won't struggle against.. That's the nature of Malifaux.. I've faced McTavish and Oxfordian Mages that make short work of geists, and the crew still proves quite durable.. I've just had more success with this list than I have with any other Lucius build.. And I know many folks on the NB forum have struggled to find working competitive lists with Lucius, so I thought I'd share my experiences.. 

Wasn't trying to be overly negative or shoot you down in any way so I hope you didn't feel attacked.  Upon rereading, I realize there seemed to pop up several semi-negative comments quickly  

Most of the killers where I play rely on min damage 3-4 and  to hit. If the enemy wasn't smart enough to bring that kind of model I would imagine Lawyers, Lucius and Waldgeists are a lot better than they usually are in my games. That might be why durability varies to such a high degree between players. Most other masters have defences that don't get so completely negated (since negating triggers is rarer than positives).

I have thought about using Queeg with waldgeists, just be aware that the marker goes away if you do the action again so you cannot spam them. They also go away if you move/push them in any way. They might stay if you place them with lackeys, have to double check that.

In short I'll definetly try something similar to this when I get a chance!

[Clyde_Davis]

3 hours ago, Ludvig said:

 

Wasn't trying to be overly negative or shoot you down in any way so I hope you didn't feel attacked.  Upon rereading, I realize there seemed to pop up several semi-negative comments quickly  

Most of the killers where I play rely on min damage 3-4 and  to hit. If the enemy wasn't smart enough to bring that kind of model I would imagine Lawyers, Lucius and Waldgeists are a lot better than they usually are in my games. That might be why durability varies to such a high degree between players. Most other masters have defences that don't get so completely negated (since negating triggers is rarer than positives).

I have thought about using Queeg with waldgeists, just be aware that the marker goes away if you do the action again so you cannot spam them. They also go away if you move/push them in any way. They might stay if you place them with lackeys, have to double check that.

In short I'll definetly try something similar to this when I get a chance!

I've made that mistake before with Queeg and germinate where I've lost my forests because of poor sequencing.. its definitely something to be careful of! 

[Clyde_Davis]

So I played the same list now against a killy Tara crew.. The strategy was Headhunter.. I played Frame for Murder and Sesrch the Ruins, and my opponent played Frame for Murder and Hunting Party.. In his crew he had Tara, Hayreddin, Scion, Nothing Beast, Forgotten Marshall and three wretches.. 

Although Lucius was the only model left from my crew, we drew 8-8 ?