Withcling Handlers, what are they good for?

[trikk]

11 minutes ago, 4thstringer said:

I think burn them all has a range limitation, limiting the usefulness against snipers.

yep, you need to be within 10" and LoS to the target. Else it could have been useful

[4thstringer]

2 hours ago, trikk said:

yep, you need to be within 10" and LoS to the target. Else it could have been useful

The guild anti austringer tax strikes again.

[Ludvig]

Burn them all needs the target to be within 10" of the attacking model, that is less than most of the guns in guild.

[Ryin]

It has an aura, that if you are in, you can put burning on your damage. It means the HANDLER won't be mobile, but she has a gun too and it's not too sucky.

 

oh, I see what you're saying. In that respect, ya. She could drag someone around though.  

And guild riflemen work best at medium range. With a handler bodyguard, it's not so bad.

[trikk]

I`d say Guild Riflemen work best 14" from the target

[Hidelfon]

1 hour ago, Ryin said:

It has an aura, that if you are in, you can put burning on your damage. It means the HANDLER won't be mobile, but she has a gun too and it's not too sucky.

 

oh, I see what you're saying. In that respect, ya. She could drag someone around though.  

And guild riflemen work best at medium range. With a handler bodyguard, it's not so bad.

Why medium range? 

[Ryin]

I don't have the cards in front of me, but I believe a lot of their stuff works either at 8-12" Tat is when they are most useful. They aren't long range peices. Their high dmg comes at medium range. I know there's a difference between 10 and 12" but it's not that much. It's not out of the realm of possibility to get them into the sweet spot to have them have a crapload of rams and + burning. Nor do I think it's too much of a diversion of resources, unless you just feel that way about riflemen in general. (which I think some might)

[Ludvig]

Riflemen do the same damage at 14" as anywhere else, their rams trick works on focus and being close to other guard models that already went. Since most guard models aren't very good as singles and want to be close to the action that makes it 5ss for a rifleman and 3-4 ss for a hound or guardsman that is just standing around or 9 ss for Dashel jsut hanging out near the rifleman. Austringers are awesome guardsmen that like to be far back but in my lists they are usually among the last models to activate any turn while the riflemen need to be among the first ones. 

Riflemen want to be at 14", the handler's buff would force you to be within 10". Riflemen have df 4, 5 wounds, a lousy ml attack and no way to disengage without provoking a strike so they are basically useless if the enemy can just double-walk into their engagement. If you are at 14" and shooting there is a tiny tiny chance that the enemy can't engage you before your next turn, if you are at 10" almost every model in the entire game will likely ahve time to engage you before you get to take your next turn. That kind of makes for anti-synergy.

[4thstringer]

The nature of burning matters for this too.  Unless you manage to be 10 inches on the nose away that extra burning will not hurt the model you shot until after it has charged and killed you.  Because a charged rifleman is a dead rifleman.

[Hagisman]

1 hour ago, 4thstringer said:

The nature of burning matters for this too.  Unless you manage to be 10 inches on the nose away that extra burning will not hurt the model you shot until after it has charged and killed you.  Because a charged rifleman is a dead rifleman.

0 action focus + 1 Action Shoot + 1 action focus. Then you have the Focus +1 to do 2 damage to those who charge you.

[Ludvig]

11 hours ago, Hagisman said:

0 action focus + 1 Action Shoot + 1 action focus. Then you have the Focus +1 to do 2 damage to those who charge you.

You can't reasonably include Dashel and a handler in the same list as two riflemen most of the time. That is 17ss in support models that now need to hang around your deployment zone to support 10ss of really squishy models. Those 27ss are usually easy to counter.

On open boards the opponent can bring two trappers for 12-14ss, those two trappers have a good chance of oneshotting the riflemen and can hang around where the riflemen need to walk a turn or two to get into range. On terrain heavy boards without sniping lanes the opponent can hide behind terrain and use the spaces you don't reach so you will be walking a lot to shoot or they can engage you. 

One rifleman near another guardsman in a Lucius or McCabe list can be used as a deterrent that you keep safe behind someting and then move out to cram two shots out of before it dies. I just don't see the 27ss package you are describing as effective.

Similarly priced combos that are more independent include: Imbued energies Langston + two merc trappers (27ss?).

Two austringers behind something + 15ss of other guild models operating independently can usually do more dage while also scheming and will be safer from most snipers.

A single rifleman walking up to be near a trapper turn one will probably lock down an area more effectively at 11ss (13 if you take a trap to shut down the most apparent charge lane) and then you use other models that move independently. 

It's bot impossible to do a lot of damage with your combo. My main concern is that it's 27ss that needs to be within 4" of each other and lowers the range of your riflemen to buff them. You are also forcing the handler to waste a lot of movement and Dashel to likely be too far away from enemies to use his new 0ss fix.

Edit: not trying to sound disrespectful but I have tried similar stuff with Dashel. It may be that I am very bad at positioning my models, I'm not a great player.

[wizuriel]

I actually like the Handler and Ryle or anyone that can get more attacks as opposed to bringing around a bunch of minions. The handler herself isn't bad at attacking and the burning can be a nice damage increase. The bonus to minions I see as just a bonus if I can use it.