Rurouni Benshin Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 Hi All, Just asking out of curiosity. Are the Wave 4 Masters/crewboxes and all things included with the Ripples of Fate book tournament legal currently, or are they not until the official release of the book? Thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 That is generally going to be up to the T.O. of any particular event you are speaking about. Wyrd let players use wave 4 models in the Gen Con Events, but they were for sale, and the book was available everywhere there. At the moment I don't think there is a catchall Yes or No available. One T.O. might allow them, one T.O. might not. Remember GG2016 gives pretty much blanket authority for T.O.s to do whatever they want for their events. My personal interpretation, is that if you have the physical models and cards, I'd allow them. If you have photocopies of the cards from the book and proxies that are approved in advance, I'd allow them. Anything else I'd probably disallow. But again that is just my personal interpretation, and not to be taken as what other T.O.s must, or even should do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goth Posted August 25, 2016 Report Share Posted August 25, 2016 NOVA takes place next weekend. Wave 4 masters and upgrades are not permitted, with the exception of Aionus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twg Posted August 27, 2016 Report Share Posted August 27, 2016 In the UK the book is not yet out for general release. My persoanl opinion is they shouldn't be legel until it is on general release. However, some TO's have said yes others no. It has caused a little friction with some refusing to attend tournaments that have wave 4 allowed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fog Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 Wyrd announced that GenCon was the release for Ripples of Fate, and in the same article said that the crew boxes were prerelease models. I would take that to mean the book itself is now considered a released product, using their words. Due to the online portion of the sale, anyone had the potential ability to order the book. While not everyone did so, the opportunity was there. The gaining grounds document specially calls out the allowance of proxies for unreleased models, which I believe implies their usage. That's all the rules say about the issue. There's some fair room for interpretation there, so it's not particularly cut and dry. As such, I'm going to suggest that when scheduling an event you make it very clear the status of unreleased models when you first post an event, and I'm going to STRONGLY suggest taking any new books in their entirety. It's not fair to let Johnny play with Reva because her box comes out in December but not let Judy play with Zipp because he releases in June. The definite implication in Gaining Grounds is that playing your own version of a model that hasn't been released is allowed and encouraged. The specifics of how long until the book should be in tournament use is definitely up in the air. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kobayashi Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 NOVA takes place next weekend. Wave 4 masters and upgrades are not permitted, with the exception of Aionus. Which is a nice gesture. Some GenCon orders even didn't have hit all of the people (min for example is still en route to me), so people are not really acquainted with that. I would rather Wyrd not using presales as official releases, but rather use the book as guideline. Is the book out for general release? Yes? Everything is fair and square. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 It's not fair to let Johnny play with Reva because her box comes out in December but not let Judy play with Zipp because he releases in June. Is anyone even suggesting that? My impression is that the issue is being able to thoroughly read the rules for a model before facing it in a tournament. Buying the book directly from Wyrd can easily break $100 if your outside the US with postage, taxes and fees. So there probably aren't that many of them around yet. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goth Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 I like the release date mechanism. I get why Titania isn't legal in some tournaments and I love it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fog Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 Is anyone even suggesting that? My impression is that the issue is being able to thoroughly read the rules for a model before facing it in a tournament. Buying the book directly from Wyrd can easily break $100 if your outside the US with postage, taxes and fees. So there probably aren't that many of them around yet. I'm going to assume the hostility I'm reading in that comment that wasn't intended. My answer was an attempt to put forward a suggestion that some players, particularly those coming in from other games, might not consider. Many other games don't care if the rules are available, only that the model is releases--the rules might be out for years in some cases before a model is released and you can't play them until you have the official model. You aren't the only person reading the thread, and some folks may not have the same viewpoints. My answer was an attempt to be inclusive as I felt it was within the scope of the original question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted August 28, 2016 Report Share Posted August 28, 2016 I'm going to assume the hostility I'm reading in that comment that wasn't intended. My answer was an attempt to put forward a suggestion that some players, particularly those coming in from other games, might not consider. Many other games don't care if the rules are available, only that the model is releases--the rules might be out for years in some cases before a model is released and you can't play them until you have the official model. You aren't the only person reading the thread, and some folks may not have the same viewpoints. My answer was an attempt to be inclusive as I felt it was within the scope of the original question. No hostility intended. I've not played any games that worked like that so I thought it was an odd thing to bring up. I mean some companies only want you to use models that they themselves have manufactured, but that would only stop people from proxying Reva if they hadn't bought her at GenCon/Webstore, not playing her if they did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fog Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 Is anyone even suggesting that? My impression is that the issue is being able to thoroughly read the rules for a model before facing it in a tournament. Buying the book directly from Wyrd can easily break $100 if your outside the US with postage, taxes and fees. So there probably aren't that many of them around yet. There's at least one game out there that releases a yearly omnibus, similar to malifaux, but the rules aren't legal for use until the general release of a model. If you buy something at a convention you aren't allowed to use it in official play until it hits general release, regardless of the wait. I'm very glad Wyrd handles things differently. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trikk Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 I believe Wave 4 should be allowed assuming you have the cards/books and original model/good proxies. I mean thats why you buy stuff at prerelease (and usually much more expensive due to shipping/customs) to be able to get something out of it. But in the end its up to the TO to make a final decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goth Posted August 29, 2016 Report Share Posted August 29, 2016 Vote no for proxying the joy of the toy is that you got it and paint it and play it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artiee Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 From the GG 2016. If a model has an officially released (non-beta) stat card available, but no model is yet released, the player may field a conversion, but it must be easily identifiable, as per the Organizer’s discretion. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 Like everything at an event is it's TO's discretion. As others have said in the UK different TO's are making different decisions based on their view of what's best for their event, players can then choose to attend the event or not. TO's who disallow wave 4 tend to take the view that it allowing it would putting players who haven't had a chance to read the book at a disadvantage. TO's who do allow wave 4 tend to take the view that people are excited to play with their shiny new toys, and someone turning up with genuine Wyrd product should be allowed to use it. I can see both sides of the argument. My personal view is that organised play is primarily about encouraging more players to play more Malifaux, and shiny new toys encourage people to play with them, so I'd allow wave 4. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jondoe297 Posted August 31, 2016 Report Share Posted August 31, 2016 I would add one thing to mythicFOX's pro to not allowing wave 4 (some people like myself) are waiting for to buy the book at my lgs as I want to support my store (something I believe wyrd also actively supports) and feel blanket disallowing wave 4 until BOOK release (after then evrything is fair game imo) helps that to some extent. But again I see the other side of allowing people to play with shinies. TO discretion at the end of the day is probably the best answer here and hopefully a good mix of both options is abundant! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King of Draconis Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 Just one question. Have you heard anything if the new masters would get avatar upgrades? We will start a tournament next week with 6 rounds 2 weeks each and gaining masters after the second, so about a month from today, if the new masters would get their avatars i would probably want to try them out, so any info in the topic would be useful. Thanks for the answers! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 Official answer: Maybe, some time in the future. My personal best guess for when it will happen, if it will happen, 6 months to, more likely, a year after they are officially released, Avatars and Conflux upgrades tend to be balanced around how powerful the master is in general play.Perceived less powerful masters get more powerful avatars and confluxes in general. It's going to take 6 months to a year past when they are generally available to the public for Wyrd to get a real sense of where they fit on the power curve. Assuming they release them in something like the Wyrd chronicals, I think the earliest they might release them would be next month, I think a more likely scenario would be with the February, 2018 Chronicals, as that will be seven months after the listed release for Reva. Of course that is all guesswork so the best answer is: ? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
valhallan42nd Posted September 28, 2016 Report Share Posted September 28, 2016 At this point, I'd have zero problems with any wave 4 or wave 4 proxies (assuming they reach the GG 2016 threshold for conversions/proxies). Bring it on, all of it! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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