Sandeep discussion

[Kevin Finch]

Howdy folks!  I just started blogging again, and I've recently thrown together some info on Sandeep, including some ideas for using his summons!  I hope you guys enjoy it!

http://tobeanarcanist.blogspot.com/2016/08/i-gamin-will-save-us.html

[dancater]

Poison Gamin have utility as a construct and a beast with the upgrade Blade & Claw.  They also obviously can stack poison with Kudra.  Scorpius also is a construct/beast offering some interesting placement move synergy with the 'Earth' buffs.  A Performer in the crew could make the poison stack pretty painful.

Although honestly I'd imagine that the Poison Gamin will not see much Sandeep summoning so much as he will feature in Marcus or even Colette poison build lists.  Still as seen above you could do some real poison pain in a list with say...

Sandeep + upgrades (say 4SS)

Kudra + upgrades (say 2SS)

Poison Gamin 5SS

Poison Gamin 5SS

Performer 5SS

Performer 5SS

Scorpius 6SS

Razorspine Rattler 7SS

This would still leave 10-15 SS to spend (11SS on the upgrade generalization I made) for specific models.  It is not the greatest poison list but its got 8 activation's without Banasuva and additional models, its fast and can pull schemes, and the poison offense is likely to surprise opponents of Arcanist's.  The problem would be durability and condition removal first and foremost.  But still with extra summons and potential Blade & Claw shenanigans it would I think be viable enough to compete. 

[Kevin Finch]

I dig it!  I have a hard time finding the line between synergistic lists and rube-goldberg machines, and so it is easy for me to fall into the trap of chasing a process instead of going for an effect.  This looks like a solid start to a list that can run pretty solidly without necessarily bunching everyone up in one spot.

Only thing to look out for is that the poison gamin are only beasts, so be careful with blade & claw.

Good use of poison gamin though.  What type of scheme/strat set up would prompt you to pull out this list?

[BFOmega]

6 minutes ago, Kevin Finch said:

Only thing to look out for is that the poison gamin are only beasts, so be careful with blade & claw.

They're definitely Beast and Construct both.

[Kevin Finch]

Herp derp, I was only looking at the large text.  I didn't notice they split it up like that.  I'll go over to the corner and put my dunce cap on.

[Guslado]

I ran Sandeep for the first time last night with the following crew:

50 SS Arcanists Crew
Sandeep Desai + 7 Pool
- Unaligned Sage (1)
- To Command Another Plane (1)
The Valedictorian (10)
- Warding Runes (1)
- Imbued Energies (1)
Kudra (7)
- Warding Runes (1)
Oxfordian Mage (5)
- Temporary Shielding (0)
- Doom Ward (0)
Oxfordian Mage (5)
- Temporary Shielding (0)
- Blood Ward (0)
Oxfordian Mage (5)
- Temporary Shielding (0)
- Nemesis Ward (0)
Sanctioned Spellcaster (5)
Sanctioned Spellcaster (5)

The game was Standard Deployment, Headhunter. Schemes were Convict Labor, Show of Force, Exhaust their Forces, Frame for Murder, and Public Demonstration.

Played against Ophelia and managed a 10-4 victory. I took Frame for Murder (on one of my Sanctioned Spellcasters) and Show of Force; opponent took Frame for Murder (Burt Jebson, who was killed by a summoned Ice Gamin turn 2) and Convict Labor.

I'm definitely still getting my head wrapped around everything that Sandeep and friends can do, but so far I really enjoyed them. Definitely going to take "Free of Mortal Shackles" on Kudra next time; prior to the game it didn't seem like it would really be worth bringing and it didn't end up making a huge difference this game, but when I had the cards to summon Banasuva only the "Commands in Wind" upgrade (the upgraded gamin can't make attack actions) was available to put on the big guy. 

The way I played it, the crew went out ahead of Sandeep laying down an impressive amount of covering fire of spells and Sandeep followed closely behind to summon in a couple Gamin and nuke the opponent with Arcane Storm (no  on it makes me so very happy!). Once my opponent was in disarray, he rolled in and crushed some heads with the Gada.

In future games I will probably be playing Sandeep himself a little more aggressively as it seems like he can stand up solidly in a fight. I definitely enjoyed all of the synergy the Oxfordian Mages were getting off of having that many Academics around; I don't think there was a single cast they had where they didn't end up with at least  added in.

Still a lot to figure out with Sandeep, but not a bad first outing. 

[Mxbedlam]

I know I sound like a broken record here, but SILENT ONES. They can cast his abilities through Ice Mirror, they can heal banasuva when he steals Frozen Heart from a gamin, even when they don't steal Sandeep's casting they hit pretty solidly and can blast. So yeah, still the best 6 point model in Arcanists.

[retnab]

Plus Sandeep can put an Ice Gamin exactly where the Silent Ones need it every turn which will be very handy!

[Guslado]

2 hours ago, Mrbedlam said:

I know I sound like a broken record here, but SILENT ONES. They can cast his abilities through Ice Mirror, they can heal banasuva when he steals Frozen Heart from a gamin, even when they don't steal Sandeep's casting they hit pretty solidly and can blast. So yeah, still the best 6 point model in Arcanists.

Models don't need to have Frozen Heart to be healed by a Silent One. Downside of casting Sandeep's casts through an Ice Mirror is that puts them at -2 on the cast. Definitely sound like a solid addition to the crew though.

[Guslado]

So, @Fog, I know you ran Sandeep in the Tyrant of Malifaux tournament and had mentioned that you played him a lot during the beta. What sorts of lists have you been running with him?

[LunarSol]

[Kevin Finch]

Guslado,  I'm really looking forward to seeing your Sandeep painted on your blog! 

 

MrBedlam,  I totally didn't think about the silent ones!  I just bought mine so I'm excited to try them out.  Man,  I thought Fog was tricky with the Banasuva - ice gamin strategy! 

[Guslado]

2 minutes ago, Kevin Finch said:

Guslado,  I'm really looking forward to seeing your Sandeep painted on your blog! 

 

MrBedlam,  I totally didn't think about the silent ones!  I just bought mine so I'm excited to try them out.  Man,  I thought Fog was tricky with the Banasuva - ice gamin strategy! 

Thanks! I've been contemplating how to base them but think I have some good ideas formed in my head (just gotta figure out how to execute them now).

The game I played with Sandeep, I was also working to set up Banasuva to get frozen heart (and thus the damage buff) from an ice gamin, I just never was able to summon him in. I'm thinking I need to hire at least 1 gamin to start out with so that I can have something to summon big blue off of if I get the cards I need for that early.

[decker_cky]

Another nice thing with Banasuva and frozen heart is if you have snow storm, he allows some placement shenanigans for a more mobile Banasuva, even if he has the "no move or push" upgrade (which I think is generally the best one for him).

If you have Kudra's gamin upgrade, I think you'll want to start with a gamin or two on the table too.

[Kevin Finch]

Yeah, I think Sandeep likes to start with at least one (maybe two?) gamin.  Depending on the schemes and strats a wind gamin is great for scheme running, but my way of "hiring" banasuva is to grab an ice gamin.  Ice gamin + Banasuva seems like a heck of a combo with a silent one, and I really look forward to trying that out.  A concern I have for the Unaligned sage build is the costs of a lot of the academics, so hiring a few gamin off the bat will help keep activations up.  Kudra is 7, 3 oxfordians sit at 15 (I don't think I can justify taking 2 when for 3 more points I can have 3)  Librarians without the merc tax are up with Kudra.  What I'm most excited for is the sanctioned spellcasters.  They are amazing denial pieces, can pair up with an oxfordian to keep them alive, and do what needs to be done when it needs to be done.  The dream situation is some sort of spread like in the image below.  That was a huge run on and I hope it gives some insight to some folks!

[CougDyver]

40 minutes ago, Guslado said:

I'm thinking I need to hire at least 1 gamin to start out with so that I can have something to summon big blue off of if I get the cards I need for that early.

Only played a few games with him, but I start with 0 gamin.  First turn I try and get a gamin out turn 1 to be either a scheme runner (wind usually) or summon point (metal gamin), and then set up for a turn 2 Banasuva summon.  I've found I prefer to summon Banasuva with the upgrade that prevents move/push, making him a focal area denial piece.  Then I use is (0) to get armor, and if he survives to the next turn usually am using the (o) from sandeep that allows a place.  Dropping him in range of even 2 enemy models is pretty nasty, and usually I can pull it off between the gamin/sandeeps mobility and the 6" pull that sandeep has.

So far my crew has been

Sandeep - Visions/Commands, Unaligned Sage, variable (seize the day/Arcane Res/etc)

Kudra - Free of Mortal Shackles/Warding Runes

Mages X3

For a core of 27-28 stones, with about 20 to fill out based on scheme/strategy.

[Kevin Finch]

Does Kudra pull her weight?  Outside of having the off switch for gamin,  I have a hard time unlocking her. 

[decker_cky]

Oxfordian mages won't always make sense, nor will the out of faction academics upgrade. It's important to realise that Sandeep boosts everything - only one of his upgrades really focuses on making academics better. 

For example, for turf war, I'd consider bringing in a bunch of students with the Captain carrying bleeding edge tech to boost their mobility (and therefore maximize flurry) and raise their resilience to ridiculous levels.

In show of force, Oxfordian mages boosting a couple of hard case henchmen is a good idea.

In other games, he may want an almost totally non-thematic crew (for example, the discussion above shows how he can be a boon to a frozen heart heavy crew).

[Kevin Finch]

Decker_cky,  I wholeheartedly agree with the thematic trap.  I've been trying to figure out what academics work well together when I take the unalienable sage upgrade,  but outside of that I think Sandeep can really be built to handle anything.  Placing Howard?  Yes please.  More gamin with the mech rider,  sign me up!  Kudra+performer that's the sauce!  I'm really looking forward to getting nice and deep with this master. 

[decker_cky]

3 minutes ago, Kevin Finch said:

Does Kudra pull her weight?  Outside of having the off switch for gamin,  I have a hard time unlocking her. 

What are you expecting from a 7ss model?

She's pretty dangerous on the charge, and she's the only model that can reliably use Sandeep's teleport (if her upgrade gives her the mask, or she burns a stone for the mask). 

She's not a potent model, but has deceiving offence and defence through her ability to always burn a soulstone. 

She's great against armoured targets with her charge and poison. 

[BFOmega]

9 minutes ago, decker_cky said:

She's pretty dangerous on the charge, and she's the only model that can reliably use Sandeep's teleport (if her upgrade gives her the mask, or she burns a stone for the mask).

Valedictorian can also stone for the mask, though doesn't get the discard a card to get the stone back mechanic, and is more expensive. 

But you could set her up to have Hard to Wound +1, Armor +1, incorporeal, and regen 1. Which seems ridiculous. 

Actually Joss might be even more ridiculous with the incorp/regen. They'd have to do 7 damage in one hit to do more than 1 damage to him, which he could SS if necessary. Hell, a Red Joker'd Seamus shot would only do 4 damage. Then if they do get him down, he gets reactivate on Hard to Kill, then activates and heals to 2. Oh, and you can't put conditions on him.

That could be especially dirty combined with some form of healing in addition to the regen, likely silent ones or the librarian.

[decker_cky]

Valedictorian stoning for a mask is already a 12ss investment (10ss for Val, 1ss for Sandeep's upgrade, and 1ss for the mask) compared to 7ss and a low card for Kudra. They're in completely different realms in terms of investment. Not that valedictorian isn't worth that investment, but it can't be looked at in the same light as Kudra. 

Kudra might be best used as a model that can zip up a side in the first turn or two to run schemes, while remaining a threat to jump into the fray (meaning stay away from her gamin upgrade and from warding runes, which imply a central field role). 

[Fog]

I actually only had one game with Sandeep before avatar, and it was a mostly academic list.  It worked reasonably well but with reckoning and headhunter as the strategies I really felt like I needed something with more direct punch.

Playing Sandeep full academics seems like a bit of a trap.  There's some good models there but at that point you're bunching around Sandeep too hard, relying on beacon to get benefit, and there's not much of a melee presence (yet).

I think NOT hiring a gamin to start is a missed opportunity.  I like having protection of metal on Sandeep for the little extra boost and then you've got means to summon early. I've not had much trouble getting two in first turn but then you're playing risky with stones or hoping for a good hand.

[decker_cky]

1 hour ago, Fog said:

Playing Sandeep full academics seems like a bit of a trap.  There's some good models there but at that point you're bunching around Sandeep too hard, relying on beacon to get benefit, and there's not much of a melee presence (yet).

The Students aren't far from being more resilient punk zombies, and they benefit from a lot of arcanist upgrades, and the mobility available in the arcanist list (sandeep himself, the captain, angelica). I could definitely see them being the basis for Sandeep in a list where you need to kill. 

Valedictorian + imbued energies, is of course a beater that competes with anything out there. 

[Jordon]

I actually think the mech rider will be a solid inclusion for Sandeep (even more so than in most other lists) mainly because she gains automatic tomes after the first turn meaning she can auto trigger student of all when using beacon. Also she might be a good candidate for well rehearsed as once she charges someone she can use her trigger to drop scheme markers and push away. Imagine charging 10" pushing 4" from her trigger (turn 3 or later) and then use her (0) to push even further. Thats a massive hit and run. Also Sandeep ability to give a model incorporeal can shore up one of the biggest weaknesses of the riders with their early game vulnerability.

Another interesting interaction is the captain/snowstorm who can give out bulletproof. Combined with arcane shield, you can effectively become immune to min damage 2 shooting attacks. This is somewhat situational but could come in handy, especially on someone like Sandeep with his I2W.  

Another odd setup is with union miners. Since they gain positives to damage flips when attacking models next to M&SU, they can use this ability with arcane storm giving them a very respectable once per turn attack. 

Also gunsmiths who can discard a card to gain suits can quite effectively utilize beacon and all of its triggers (but uses up a (0)) or again automatically trigger student of all if you discard a tome. Not to mention all the burning synergy with fire gamin and banasuva.