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cptRamires

Markers in the air

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Can model which is located on building (height 5 for example)  - standing on the edge of the roof place marker in the air so that marker then drops on the ground (5 inches down) ?

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Nope. Markers must be placed in base to base contact, they're not allowed to hover over the board. Can't back it up with a page reference but do a search through the rules forum and I am confident you will find threads about this.

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What it comes down to is simple and plain interpretation of the word "place" as actually putting the marker or model in a legal position in the game, subject to being base-to-base with whatever.  That's the same section of unwritten rules as other related facts:

  • You're not capable of placing models in the air, unsupported by terrain.
  • You're not capable of moving models through the air, unsupported by terrain.

Not even models with Flight or Incorporeal are allowed to hover above the table unsupported by terrain.  But any model in the game that can climb a wall can get into a situation where one point of its base is in contact with terrain and the rest of it is floating in the air. 

If you're absolutely going to demand things that are written in the rules, your starting point has to be this part, from the definition of falling:

Quote

Models moving off elevations and falling suffer no damage if the fall was 2” or less. If the fall was more than 2” the fall deals 1 damage per 1”, or fraction thereof, fallen.

Example: A model that falls off of a Ht 4 cliff would suffer 4 damage. A model that falls from a Ht 6 cliff but lands on a Ht 3 surface would suffer 3 damage.

and the corresponding FAQ entries concerning falling during pushes and movement.  In the usual permissive rules set sense, falling only happens when it is defined to happen and it's only defined to happen in the rules during movement.  So if you could place a model in mid air, as far as the rules are concerned it does not fall and would be expected to hover in place without moving.  Just like if you have a model climbing terrain, as far as the rules are concerned it does not fall if it ends a move half way up the vertical surface and you have to erect an emergency framework to show where the model is.

 

 

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3 minutes ago, icebreaker said:

Technically If you place marker in BtB then it should drops down. No?

Markers are placed on the table, they cannot be placed in the air above the table. So you have to place it on the ground but then it isn't in btb. If you can place markers without needing to touch (like near a mannequin or with some special actions like the miners have) then you can place it within X inches measured horizontally.

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7 minutes ago, cptRamires said:

Thank you, And one more question if I am able summon model only in base contact with another model and same situation on roof but only place where I can put model in base contact is in the air - can I summon model and then it fall? And if height is for example just 0.5 inch - so model will not be in base contact but engaged. 

Not if it says you need to summon in btb-contact. Some abilities summon within X inches and then you could have that be below or above the model without needing to measure the height. I'm fairly certain models need to be placed "on the table" when summoned since you are never allowed to have anything floating around under any circumstances.

Another way to put it: After the action is done (including potential falling) you still need to be able to prove that the things are in base to base contact, otherwise you haven't performed a legal action.

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It sounds as true, but I'm confusing. Kirai have summoning ability, It mean if there is so small rock on the board, so small to cover it fully with 30mm base if it 0.5 inch height, I can climb on it with Perdita and shoot to Kirai's crew without any limit because Kirai will never have possibility to place Ikirio in BtB with my master. Right? 

It sounds a bit... a bit strange when the master's strength depends of a small rock...

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Thank you, And one more question if I am able summon model only in base contact with another model and same situation on roof but only place where I can put model in base contact is in the air - can I summon model and then it fall? And if height is for example just 0.5 inch - so model will not be in base contact but engaged. 

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11 minutes ago, icebreaker said:

Technically If you place marker in BtB then it should drops down. No?

The falling is immediate so I would ask you to prove that they are in base contact since the action hasn't resolved until after the marker is actually placed on the table. If they're no longer in btb then you haven't performed a legal action.

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Thank you, so if model stand on some small piece of terrain (less then model base) which is 0.5 inches height - Kirai cannot summon Ikirio? Because it should be placed in btb contact ?

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19 minutes ago, icebreaker said:

It sounds as true, but I'm confusing. Kirai have summoning ability, It mean if there is so small rock on the board, so small to cover it fully with 30mm base if it 0.5 inch height, I can climb on it with Perdita and shoot to Kirai's crew without any limit because Kirai will never have possibility to place Ikirio in BtB with my master. Right? 

It sounds a bit... a bit strange when the master's strength depends of a small rock...

Defining that piece of terrain that way seems like a bad call to me. I'd define it as some sort of obstruction instead or not use terrain like that. You could define it as ht 0 severe, hard cover for instance. 

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Tried skimming the relevant parts looking for something to back me up but I couldn't really find anything so this may just be some weird home-baked interpretation.

I'm still pretty sure things that are placed are done so at table-height or not at all but someone more competent than me will need to prove which way it works. 

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I don't think it's supported well in the rules, but I've certainly seen discussions with the designers where it was stated that you can't summon or place a model into the air and have it fall.

For the Ikiryo example, if you defined the terrain that way it would be legit (though as Ludvig suggests, something that small probably should be more abstracted). Note that even if she was standing in open space, you could position other models around Perdita such that there was no room to place a 50mm base in contact with her, and blaze away - the opponent would be unable to summon Ikiryo in that situation as well.

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On 08/12/2016 at 8:31 AM, solkan said:
  • So if you could place a model in mid air, as far as the rules are concerned it does not fall and would be expected to hover in place without moving.  Just like if you have a model climbing terrain, as far as the rules are concerned it does not fall if it ends a move half way up the vertical surface and you have to erect an emergency framework to show where the model is.

 

 

I think like this.

It would be very strange and incoherent if you on a side could let a model stay mid-air grappling a wall or with just a finger touching the edge of a tower, while on the other side you would prohibit the same as summoning...

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