Jump to content

Any Lucius news?


Vorschlag
 Share

Recommended Posts

How to dance around the battlefield, Lucius edition
Great thanks to: Wyrd and You, the Malifaux community
Author: Eclipse

His Excellency the Honorable Lucius Mattheson is a support Master that excels in movement and trickery, but is heavily reliant on the model choice of his crew, in particular the Minions. Let's see what the Two-Faced Secretary he can and can't do.
+1. The most important ability that Lucius has is, in fact, his (1) 'What Lackeys Are For'. This is also indicated by it's once per turn only use. This is an ability that greatly changes the battlefield: It can reposition friendly models while dropping a scheme marker in base contact. This is HUGE in the right context. Let's get back to this later.
+2. Lucius can distribute his AP to get extra actions out of minions. This comes in two flavors: 'Terrifying Presence' (static ability) and 'Issue Command' (an (1) action). Then seem similar, but are actually very far apart in function. Have you ever played with Magical Extension, or against it? This is actually the reverse, the Master using the Minion as an extension, only (hopefully) a little better. Let's analyze the two "extension powers".
   *'Terrifying Presence' is more of a way not lose AP while moving - after all, Walking with your Master is a bit of waste of such important AP. Never, EVER target a minion with this unless it is one of the following cases: 1. You have the card to cheat when you fail the Wp so the model does not get Paralyzed. 2. Also if: You have the card to cheat when you fail the Wp so the model does not get Paralyzed. 3. Did I mention if: You have the card to cheat when you fail the Wp so the model does not get Paralyzed? 4. In some corner cases, you might really NEED to use the same minion as an extension twice - this allows you to do this while not completely wasting your AP. 5. In some other corner cases you might want to actively try to Paralyze your guy (??) and, say, draw a card with Widow Weaver - something cheap, 3-4 SS that is not too important. 
   Overall: Try not to use this ability much. If possible avoid using it on important model that you want to be able to activate later. Make sure you have the card to cheat for the Horror Duel, unless you really need to take a risk with this and it might win you something solid. Prey that the Black Joker does not come up, or have it in hand.  Also, you should use it to move models or interact with them (for a better battlefield position and/or VP) rather then attack - attacking using this sucks as you lose cards from the deck and probably from your hand just to make an attack that is most often not very good and eat even MORE cards from the deck and hand. Meh. I'd rather just Walk and not go through all the trouble of ordering if I don't have a specific goal and a card for the duel in hand.
   *'Issue Command' on the other hand is where Lucius truly shines. It has three useful triggers. This is one you should save a card with the right suit in hand, or should even stone for. Ram gives focus before the action, this is how you attack with Lucius. Best used with shooters - Guild Rifleman and my favorite, Guild Pathfinders. Freikorps Trappers enjoy good orders, too. Also quite solid with melee beaters that are engaged already and you don't want to activate yet (Illuminated). Tomes gives an (1) Interact after the current action - so a Terror Tot can (1) Sprint and (1) Interact. Or an Illuminated can strike (and hopefully Flay) and then (1) Exhaust. Or a Sorrow can (1) Misery Loves Company to something and then 'Catch and Release' it (and die for Frame For Murder :P ). Defensive is usually less useful, but can save a model that has a target on it's back by discouraging the opponent to attack or by flipping the extra cards. The catch here is big, however: The range is optimal for Guardsman and Mimics only! For other Minions you have to be much closer to be in range, which might cause you to get into trouble sometimes. Oops.
+3. 'Highest Authority' (:-fate on a single attack action against him paid by discarding a card) coupled with the 'Red Tape' trigger (two rams on attack to give :-fate:-fate against Minions and Mimics which most of your crew should be) actually makes Lucius an off-tank/tarpit for a while. Can be useful to take pressure off other models at times; just don't leave Lucius take heat for more than a turn, the resource drain to make him work is big as is already. The best way to use this is to (1) 'What Lackeys Are For' and get in the thick of it while something else breathes in relief, then hit stuff with a cane until they promise not to tell anyone. If there are scheme markers around you can occasionally also get to (0) Hidden Weapons that makes this akin to a Flurry - if you are lucky with the flips you might even kill something, yay! Next turn (1) 'What Lackeys Are For' the hell out of there and leave a scheme Marker while delivering something tough (or exploding). If you have the (0) Hidden Sniper this is the time to randomize off the swapped model to hit targets behind LoS (or if you put the swapped model out of engagement straight up try and hit what you were going for), with some bonuses.
+4. The hiring pool Lucius has is actually pretty great. With the models from Wave 4 he will now have eight out-of-faction models that he can hire in both Guild and Neverborn. Some supremely great models are Austringers (if you admit to others you like cheese), Guild Pathfinders (take two to summon a Trap with and bounce it with the other, or force them to bounce - bounce with Master Queeg), Mounted Guards (Yeeahah!), the Doppelganger (cheat Initiative! Interact always! Copy awesome stuff!), Mr. Graves (Show Ya Da Doo! Git To Da Choppa!). Take a look at the new Terracotta Soldiers from Wave 4, they sound awesome. In general the minions available to Neverborn are of a higher standard (Illuminated, Terror Tots, Waldgeist) and can be complimented with Guild shooting. In Guild you have to balance your shooting with melee elements and more control to take pressure off your models easier. Just remember: Minions are the extensions of Lucius. The better they are, the better Lucius is. Also, if they are Guardsman/Mimic, they are longer extensions.
+5. You might not have thought about it but Lucius actually loves Enforcers and Henchcreatures. Especially murderous ones. He loves teleporting them somewhere near the opponent then giggling off to somewhere. Which bring me back to:
+1. Did I mention that Lucius has one ability that is most important of all which is, in fact, his (1) 'What Lackeys Are For'? This gives free markers (already an AP paid off!) that fuel schemes, strategies and abilities. It makes him unpredictable. It allows him to dance around pointing at his people/monsters/whatever to do his dirty work while they become focused, or extra interactive, or even getting defensive about it. It gives more angles of approach to situations. If you have a 5 in hand it is worth it to stone for this ability. Please, use this action. It's not situationally good like some other abilities, such as:
+/- 1. 'Guild Intelligence' is rather situational; to get the most of it activate the ability then order something in the aura to interact straight away. Remember that you have this tool to create 'Aha, gotcha!' moments.
+/- 2. 'Devil's Deal' allows you to deal three damage that cannot be reduced to a friendly model nearby after using a Soulstone during an action. After the action is resolved you get the Stone back. Can be useful if you models can heal (i.e. Illuminated, Changelings, etc.). Gives you some flexibility and can somewhat compensate for the high resource needs of Lucius. Just don't go too crazy with it and kill half your crew with it. Greedy Guildies ;)
+/- 3. The only upgrade that is auto-include for me with Lucius is 'Surprisingly Loyal'. It allows you take your other guys to the party. This is good, because it makes Lucius less expensive. It's bad, because it means that the other upgrades are quite situational. Hidden Weapons is a often a trap - if you make a mass of scheme markers just so you can ultra-Flurry with Lucius you will probably lose the game (because you lost focus trying to complete a tertiary objective). The hidden sniper is good, but the upgrade and the required stoning for the ability are a real SS drain. And 'Legalese' is something you not only have to plan for, but be ready to execute during the final turn, on the final activation if possible (and hope that it IS the final turn): 'Lackeys' teleport in and then charge or Walk as far away as possible so you can convert those heretic scheme markers over to the Church of Lucius. Err, I mean make them yours. Anyway, this means you have be much closer to the enemy models, which means Lucius might get into trouble much easier. At least this way you can get use out of 'Loopholes', potentially. You know what else causes not loop, but game holes for Lucius? Some of the following:
- 1. 'Secret Service' is, like, really bad. You have to stone and flip or more often cheat from your hand the other suit. Often you will also use 'Devil's Deal' for the Soulstone, because you just wasted a precious soulstone to redirect an attack instead of using the card for 'Highest Authority' and the Stone for prevention, if necessary. Still, this can be useful: Redirect at Mr. Tannen so they have to pass his Manipulative and lose two cards when cheating. Grrr. Or just redirect to your Frame For Murder. Sucker. Now this is the real "Muahaha" laugh, not the paltry one Ressers do.
- 2. 'Elite Training' is at least 2" too short. So you can buff your mighty melee minions - when you are standing next to them timing their performance? Lame. You might as well put on some Red Tape and Issue a Command for a focused ++ attack with + damage while you're there, though. Hopefully you will survive without having to use the Devil's Deal to Secretly Service on the non-important dude next to you - because, you know, he does your job for you and you do your job quite slowly by yourself (if ever) if you are Lucius. Well, this might be good if you want to keep splashing some Black Blood on the enemy. At least you are close enough to make good use of 'Loopholes', and 'Guild Intelligence', and 'Useless Duplications' additional - to melee attacks for discard.
- 3. Lucius is squishy. Yes, he has many defenses, and high stats, and is elusive. He also has ten wounds, and cards and soulstones dry up at some point. Which is to say:
- 4. Lucius is resource intensive. He does things the roundabout way, by controlling other models. This means he has an extra resource that he has to take care of: Friendly models. So you have to make a careful crew selection. Then you start to play and realise you need cards for all your actions to be able to make something else do something. Maybe. And probably using a soulstone as well. Or maybe some friendly wounds, because why not. And when friendly minion extensions start dying on Lucius he can be a sad panda. Noone to do my work? Ohh :( 

On a brighter note, we can summarize this long-ar$e post so we can easily make a better Lucius world:
~ Make a careful crew selection and if you are using Mimics and Guardsman hang around back and have fun weaving and twisting a web; if you prefer other Minion flavors they by all means stick closer to the action and dirty your own hands as well;
~ Dance around with 'What Lackeys are For' and Issue Commands to your Minion Extensions for extreme versatility from unexpected angles;
~ Control the battlefield with your movement, range and trickery. You don't want to let the opponent dictate the pace (too much): Not only is it unfitting for an Aristocrat, it will probably lose you the game as well;
~ Resources be resources: They dry out at some point, so you have to use them as efficiently as possible (Mmm, accounting. Delicious). Bringing some form of summoning is quite useful here;
~ Have fun! If you are not having fun with a Master and in particular with Lucius, you don't have to force yourself to play said Master(s). This is what I did with Lilith and Zoraida: Not my style, don't feel like playing them anymore. Meh. Lucius and Lynch, fun! Yay!

Hope this has been fun and an interesting read for you, bar the slightly rude insinuations that you might be doing it wrong (because I'm obviously a douche B) ).
Sincerely yours, Eclipse

Edit: P.S. Have the Doppelganger. Use the Doppelganger. Love the Doppelganger. It might not love you back, but it's alright. Love is bittersweet sometimes.

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, Eclipse said:

I will have time for structured tips later and promise to write out, I was just waiting for someone to take the bait because I like the attention :P
As for Queeg, I'd love to use him with Pathfinders to make the traps jump around like crazy, or potentially with the Rougaru to pull more models into range with it's AoE (0) . What did Autumn Knights' (0) do? I think a Wp duel or get Slow?

Tooth pushes them their charge and makes them attack her with an Ml on a :-fate if they can. She makes an attack back if she's alive. Thorn pushes them into base with her and drops a scheme marker. Claw pushes them into base with has. Has a trigger to force them to discard 2 cards or receive :-fate to Df until the end of the turn.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The new Guild Thrall unit seems tailor made for Lucius.  40mm base minion with solid damage, wounds and some other abilities and the give away is "always passes horror duels" (at least according to reports) so not immune but auto pass, perfect for the masked man.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Tooth pushes them their charge and makes them attack her with an Ml on a :-fate if they can. She makes an attack back if she's alive. Thorn pushes them into base with her and drops a scheme marker. Claw pushes them into base with has. Has a trigger to force them to discard 2 cards or receive :-fate to Df until the end of the turn.

One minor note, Tooth's (0) action does not give a Negative to the Ml but to any damage flip resulting from the attack the enemy gets.  So they can hit you just fine, just get an extra negative on the damage so it is harder for strait results.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sounds like Quueg could work with the new guys! 

@Eclipse: Thank you for that writeup! I'm probably overusing both Hidden sniper and commanding prescence. I guess most of the frustration on my part comes from half his rules rarely being useful. As you mention his ml buff aura is really small and the damage for soulstones so often ends up a trap (I play him in guild currently but am buying my way through neverborn to make him work). 

Small note: the hidden sniper never randomizes in combat, it doesn't have the :ranged symbol. It's still ridiculously resource intensive, it basically eats a stone each time you use it.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Cinnamon Bear said:

Well, you've done a pretty good job making Lucius sound better than I've heard other people make him out to be. 

And I was already considering Titania and Neverborn....and could use my guild models....

Damn it.

Ooops. Sorry about that.
It's all about the perspective - most people would gravitate towards the easiest possible solution, aka "play a Master that does everything better/Lucius sucks". This is how people are made to be for the most part, so it's not necessarily a bad thing. If I didn't like banging my head on a wall until a hole is made I would have given up on Lucius a long time ago as well (Yay! Masochism!).
Yan Lo and Brewmaster are next. Muahahaha B) 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, Eclipse said:

Ooops. Sorry about that.
It's all about the perspective - most people would gravitate towards the easiest possible solution, aka "play a Master that does everything better/Lucius sucks". This is how people are made to be for the most part, so it's not necessarily a bad thing. If I didn't like banging my head on a wall until a hole is made I would have given up on Lucius a long time ago as well (Yay! Masochism!).
Yan Lo and Brewmaster are next. Muahahaha B) 

A big reason to play more flexible masters is because after the first four rounds, you're pretty much on autopilot for the fifth and having to manage your hand exactly to get a tiny bit of mileage out of Lucius vs. Pandora 'ok I paralyze your best 3 models' is much easier.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 hours ago, Ludvig said:

Sounds like Quueg could work with the new guys! 

@Eclipse: Thank you for that writeup! I'm probably overusing both Hidden sniper and commanding prescence. I guess most of the frustration on my part comes from half his rules rarely being useful. As you mention his ml buff aura is really small and the damage for soulstones so often ends up a trap (I play him in guild currently but am buying my way through neverborn to make him work). 

Small note: the hidden sniper never randomizes in combat, it doesn't have the :ranged symbol. It's still ridiculously resource intensive, it basically eats a stone each time you use it.

It's not bad to use Hidden Sniper, it's just extra resource intensive on top of the standard Lucius 'resource intensive'. So not something you should use every turn IMO, but rather when you have something in mind - an important model to kill or an important marker to discard so you can drop your own one. Combined with 'Lackeys' teleportation and some 'Issue Orders' you can get around quite fine. Theoretically to use 'Commanding Presence' well on the other hand you would have to take models that are not afraid of the Duels (Witchling Thralls!), or with high Wp, or cheat the duel (ugh), or take Lawyers (not a fan of them, though the flavor is great). In theory 'Commanding Presence' should be better when you aim to be close enough for 'Elite Training' and being able to charge to try for some Red Tape on the cane. Also technically solid coupled with 'Hidden Weapons': Walk > Order something around; Charge > two attacks; (0) Hidden Weapons for a Gentleman's Flurry. Should be better if you take the 'Useless Duplications' upgrade to not get randomized at in melee (you are next to your minions anyway, right?) - though where the hell you would get all the scheme markers to use this (once per game?) ability eludes me.
I've been thinking about Performers for quite some time now - Walk, Charge, next turn Lackeys teleport, Issue Orders to blow up the scheme marker and interact for another, (0) Sniper, maybe Presence (with the card to cheat) for another Seduction. The girl is still Manipulative 'cause she has not activated. Oh $hit, I just realised I haven't used Lucius for Mr. Tannen delivery service. Haha :D 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Useless duplications doesn't let you ignore combat randomization, it makes enemies randomize as if you were engaged when shooting at you if you aren't engaged. I think you're confusing it with the doppleganger's "which one is real" ability. 

Oh man, just thinking about if useless duplication's allowed you to hold people in place with Lucius while others shot without randomizing makes me all giddy inaide :D Too bad it doesn't do that :( 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

53 minutes ago, Ludvig said:

Useless duplications doesn't let you ignore combat randomization, it makes enemies randomize as if you were engaged when shooting at you if you aren't engaged. I think you're confusing it with the doppleganger's "which one is real" ability. 

Oh man, just thinking about if useless duplication's allowed you to hold people in place with Lucius while others shot without randomizing makes me all giddy inaide :D Too bad it doesn't do that :( 

Yeah, I guess I mixed that up :P 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 8/16/2016 at 6:53 AM, Ludvig said:

Noooo! :'( The no austringer-clause strikes again.

Though one thing you can do with the Terracotta warrior's upgrade switching mechanic is give an enforcer/hench Thousand Faces, they switch to pact and draw a card, then you switch it back to Thousand Faces and repeat. Get some card draw for any 6+ if you don't need your enforcer/hench to have a more useful upgrade.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
 

Though one thing you can do with the Terracotta warrior's upgrade switching mechanic is give an enforcer/hench Thousand Faces, they switch to pact and draw a card, then you switch it back to Thousand Faces and repeat. Get some card draw for any 6+ if you don't need your enforcer/hench to have a more useful upgrade.

Neat, never thought about these interactions! Thanks for pointing this out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...
10 hours ago, Starrius said:

I'm new to the game and having trouble getting a basic list that's general to help me get better with this master

The best way to learn with him is just to play keep a log of how he did per turn and the opponent. Then look for the weakness and try to replace it with other models. If your using the box set I would add a hooded rider to start it is a massive boost to scheme running 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

20 hours ago, Starrius said:

I'm new to the game and having trouble getting a basic list that's general to help me get better with this master

Since you are new to the game, I'll try to keep it short.
Lucius is very good for strategies and schemes that rely on mobility. In my opinion his premier action is his once per turn (1) 'What Lackeys Are For' that has amazing utility - getting models in position and out of combat.
Lucius likes to spend his AP using the above ability once per turn and ordering his Minions around for the other two AP. I would suggest you (1) Issue Orders only most of the time and only use the Terrifying Presence ability if you really have and can cheat for it. The triggers on Issue Orders are great and essentially give you two actions on a Minion for the cost of one action on your Master.
Due to the above Lucius requires good minions that he can order around - they are almost extensions of himself, giving him more reach and abilities. Issue Order has a longer range when you target his thematic Mimic and Guardsman minions, too. Experiment with different minion combinations if you can to see what works for you.
In addition, Lucius needs a heavy-weight model or two to fight and kill for him. In Neverborn models like Teddy or the Hooded Rider fit this and are a lot of fun, too. I for example use a Mature Nephilim and Nekima as both can fly and hit really hard with 4/5/6 damage.
If possible always take the Doppelganger. Cheating initiative with her will be indispensable and she has other fun abilities like copying others (non-Master, non-named model) (1) actions and interacting when engaged.
I have written a long post close to the top of this (second) page of the thread describing what I think about Lucius and his abilities. I suggest that you come back and read that after you have more experience playing with Lucius and some opinions about him and what he does. Hopefully I helped you a bit. Keep in mind that Lucius is a difficult Master to play and have fun :)

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information