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Night Terrors, in need of a cuddle.


Patzer
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For 3ss they are too good. For a measly 3ss you get a wk 6 minion with 4 wounds, incorporeal and hard to kill, together with some impressive out of activation movement against models who they are strong against, an above average ml attack for their cost (the Winged Plague are worse for an additional ss for instance), and strong casting synergi. I think they punch, run, and outlive their price range by far. Why their low cost is a problem is even further enhanced by that their native faction are ressers who can easily spew extra activation left and right.

Here are some suggestions on how I think they should be fixed. 1) Up their cost to 4ss. Then I think they are in line with a insignificant 4ss specialist insignificant minion similar to the Depleted. 2) Get rid of their hard to kill and lower their ml to 4. The second suggestion takes away some of their survivability and hitting power, but keeps some of their main strengths. Being a fast, cheap, anti-shooting, minion.

 

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I fully agree that they are pretty damn crazy and both of the suggested fixes would be good (maybe a tad heavy-handed on paper but testing would reveal whether or not that's true). But I doubt they will be errataed any time soon as they don't really break things and Wyrd are generally very careful with their errata. Also, were I to errata Ressers, I would start with Nurses.

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They are good but I'm not sure if they are that far above other 3ss models like guild hounds or corrupted hounds who also walk 6 and have good melee with a better damage spread and can be made significant. The fact they are always insignificant is a huge downside compared to other 3ss minions, and i don't know if i consider 1/2/3 that much of a punch so im not convinced its a game changer, but like you point out night terrors do a lot for 3ss. 

I don't think the solution is to up their cost, a number of other factions have 3ss models and the ones which don't are known for having higher cost models (im thinking outcast and 10T) and it seems right that resers would have low cost minions, and resers already have plenty of good 4ss minions who i would prob choose before a night terror purely because they are significant.

The unique parts of night terrors are their anti shooting/casters and survivability so if i was going to change them i would keep the survivability, you could remove incorporeal since it still means they will take two hits to kill and leaving incorp but removing hdk would make them vulnerable to casters who they seem to be designed to be a hard counter for, as it is they will usually take three hits but even a model like a guild hound with 4 hits will be unlucky to go down in one attack unless the enemy wants it dead, but at the end of the day their survivability gives them a unique role as a cheap model for tying up shooters or casters and since resers lack effective snipers im happy to have a model designed for this. If you removed this you would just end up with a boring 3ss model players would only take to out activate the enemy. Instead of dropping their survivability I would try to add in something to reduce their effectivness as a cheap minion,  they could be rewritten kind of like a lesser version of guild hounds so if there is two or more near each other they count as minions otherwise they are peons. You could easily drop their damage track to 0/0/2 but leave the ml so they can still tie enemy up but are define them more as model which is hard to kill and designed to tie up enemies shooters then a cheap minion which can do a bunch of things. 

So basically if you lower their survivability too much no one would take them for tying up the enemy so you would just be left with a boring cheap minion for out activating instead of a unique model which fills an interesting role creating a deeper game. Instead my solution would be to really tone down the damage spread and throw in a counter to them being a cheap survivable minion by giving the opponent a way to make them a peon. This wouldn't fix the out activation problem but the way to fix that would be to up their cost and if you did that i think folks would take 4ss significant models instead.

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I think Guild Hounds are better than Night Terrors, the better Df makes up for the the passive defences and they have significantly higher damage potential with (1) charges and critical strike. Not to mention that they can become significant. So it seems absurd to me to change Night Terrors while there are Guild Hounds around (Corrupted are a bit weaker than Guild though IMO so perhaps Wyrd thinks Guild Hounds came out a little strong).

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15 minutes ago, Bengt said:

I think Guild Hounds are better than Night Terrors, the better Df makes up for the the passive defences and they have significantly higher damage potential with (1) charges and critical strike. Not to mention that they can become significant. So it seems absurd to me to change Night Terrors while there are Guild Hounds around (Corrupted are a bit weaker than Guild though IMO so perhaps Wyrd thinks Guild Hounds came out a little strong).

IME Night Terrors take more AP to dispatch of than Guild Hounds. Night Terrors take almost everytime three AP at absolute minimum unless you're doing absolutely massive damage or significant Ca damage (or Burning or whatever). Not saying that Night Terrors are outright better but I think that saying that better Df makes up for the passives isn't quite true.

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There is an ongoing problem with people who find some models "too good". After the Mechrider/ the Metalgamin/ Leveticus/ Rats/ and probably some others it is now the Night terrors turn.

Don't get me wrong, I think that all of the Errata are ok and made things like Leveticus/Mech Rider from very good, to only good/ok.

BUT. I play Malifaux 2nd E since its out and I have faced this "too good" models many times and never lost a game because of them.

Malifaux is a well balanced game and you can call models extreme good, very strong, super weak and so on, but there is not a single model that is "too good/bad" there are only players not good enough to handle them....

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Insignificant models usually have a huge discount on them, even insignificant minions.

But how has nobody mentioned how amazing night falls is? Its a large aura, and absolutely shuts down some crews. Once, for the schemes and strategies, I took three night terrors in a marcus crew, and it turned out I was facing a daw crew. Double tapping night falls to give anything within :aura8 of my night terrors -8 range on their Ca actions was brutal, and completely shut my opponent down midgame. It was a perfect storm, but that definitely seemed to be potent for 3ss. 

I don't think they really need any kind of errata though.

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4 hours ago, Shen Long said:

There is an ongoing problem with people who find some models "too good". After the Mechrider/ the Metalgamin/ Leveticus/ Rats/ and probably some others it is now the Night terrors turn.

Don't get me wrong, I think that all of the Errata are ok and made things like Leveticus/Mech Rider from very good, to only good/ok.

BUT. I play Malifaux 2nd E since its out and I have faced this "too good" models many times and never lost a game because of them.

Malifaux is a well balanced game and you can call models extreme good, very strong, super weak and so on, but there is not a single model that is "too good/bad" there are only players not good enough to handle them....

100% agreed!

 

It`s not as if these Night Terrors shut down your whole list and prevent you from doing anything, and they fall if they have to, so in my opinion its just that you have to choose the right priorities in your game and everything should be fine :)

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4 hours ago, Shen Long said:

There is an ongoing problem with people who find some models "too good". After the Mechrider/ the Metalgamin/ Leveticus/ Rats/ and probably some others it is now the Night terrors turn.

Don't get me wrong, I think that all of the Errata are ok and made things like Leveticus/Mech Rider from very good, to only good/ok.

BUT. I play Malifaux 2nd E since its out and I have faced this "too good" models many times and never lost a game because of them.

Malifaux is a well balanced game and you can call models extreme good, very strong, super weak and so on, but there is not a single model that is "too good/bad" there are only players not good enough to handle them....

So, just to make sure I understood what you're saying - are you saying that

all the errata that was made was for the good of the game but unnecessary

or that

all the errata that was made was good but that now the balance is pitch perfect?

 

Oh, and I have also played Malifaux 2e since it was out. In fact, I played Malifaux 1e since it was out as well. And I never once lost to the Nico Dog spam list which must mean that it was OK (if you don't know what I'm talking about, it was a list that summoned 50+ models to the table and was errataed away quite quickly).

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For me, it`s more or less this - "all the errata that was made was for the good of the game but unnecessary"

 

-> and in my opinion, to bring up the Undead Dog spam list and stuff from 1st edition and compare it to the recent erratas and cuddles is like comparing apples and oranges....

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