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Zipp !! Ideas?


Blacks85

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Well, our "weird" master came out...what do you think?

It's surely a very, very strange model...I don't know about it...

It can mess up a lot with enemy position and it's extremely mobile. Damage is quite low for a Gremlin master...or model generally.

...and it's insignificant...why? And not chatty, but this new mechanics which is weaker.

Then the (0) action which can't be used to put model into an engagement - if opponent doesn't want.

My first thoughts are negative...but we'll see with its box and on the field!

:D

 

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15 minutes ago, Blacks85 said:

Well, our "weird" master came out...what do you think?

It's surely a very, very strange model...I don't know about it...

It can mess up a lot with enemy position and it's extremely mobile. Damage is quite low for a Gremlin master...or model generally.

...and it's insignificant...why? And not chatty, but this new mechanics which is weaker.

Then the (0) action which can't be used to put model into an engagement - if opponent doesn't want.

My first thoughts are negative...but we'll see with its box and on the field!

:D

 

Never mind master. There is attack action to drop piano, I will repeat DROP PIANO!
You liked pigapult? Now you can drop piano on enemy head :P

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Conversely I feel Zipp is going to be very, very strong.  He's the Gremlin movement shenanigans and control master.

 

I never understood why people were upset about insignificant - any model can take interact actions and your master AP is the most expensive, and rare, AP resource in the game.  Yes in a pinch you can use them for interacts, but 90% of the time you are better off using them to do what the master does.  So being insignificant doesn't really hurt him very much, it just means you can't use his ridiculous mobility to break the game.  The other side of that coin is that he is SUPER annoying for enemy models attempting to complete schemes simply by being there, and with his frankly ridiculous trigger and decent cache he can be annoying for some time.

 

Not only that but he makes his Iron Skeeters stronger by giving them free upgrades - so remember that he will buff his minions regardless of where he is on the table.  I'm sure those upgrades are pretty good for free.

 

Being able to straight up block models with noxious smoke is also ridiculously strong, and that ability alone will win games. They have a big hitter against cover about to decimate your crew?  No problem, just block them in with Zipp and they are essentially paralysed for the turn - for 1AP, with no flip and your opponent can do nothing about it.  You can even block LOS so they can't use shenanigans to get them out.  Not only that you can use it to screen your own models while they complete schemes unimpeded by the enemy thus winning you the game. Noxious smoke is probably the single most important ability on his card, it is simply that good.

 

And again, you cannot underplay his mobility.  With flight and Wk 8 he is the most mobile model in the entire game, he will be where you need him to be.

 

Zipp is the Gremlin control master.  And honestly he is beautiful, I think he will be really really strong.  Yes he is one of the worst masters in the game for killing models.  Luckily you can take other models if you need to do that, while Zipp cripples the opponent crew and wins you the game.

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I'm most excited about Up We Go!

"Oh no" I thought "it's only Ml3" and then I noticed the fact it's resisted by Ht. So not only are you guaranteed at least +1 over nearly every model in the game, but you also deny every single defensive trigger in the game because none of them trigger off Ht. And while people are saying Zipp doesn't do that much damage... 2/4/5 that can't be reduced on a flip where you will nearly always have a higher stat is nothing to sniff at.

Anyway Zipp is good and please sign my petition to #MakeZippALady

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I am quit looking forward to build and play this guy. What is not to love and I think his bread and butter will be his upgrades.

 

Also Up we go! will put a dent in a lot of opponents plans, not only can you take a free walk action to harass one opponent further, no you might be able to toss a damaged opponent to your minions or displace them for the likes of reconnoiter or sth. like that. I love it!

Zipp Zapper ... the built in trigger is nice and the :crowtrigger is also quite good!

Noxious Smoke denies entry to certain areas and with how fast Zipp can fly through the battlefield I think he can deny quit a lot to the unsuspecting opponent

Blasting Off Again Gets him out on a pinch (just to wreak havoc elsewhere) and let's a just charged opponent left wondering...

... ... and than, there will be the piano :D.

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Noxious smoke can be amazing.  Up we go is a shockingly powerful attack. I'd say its probably even better than Grab and Drop.

 

I've had the insignifigant discussion several times. And as a general rule I think I only make my master interact about 1 in 10 games. That may well be a play style, but the faction isn't lacking in fast moving models to interact if thats what you want. 

A chatty master would be horrible. You could never get deliver a message for a start. And I think you'll find Zipp is very hard to kill with that defence trigger. 

He plays strangely, but there is quite a depth to him. He can clear out a Turf war area pretty easily, with up we go. Its place, so you can put them on the other side of walls/buildings, which means that most of the time, they could easily need 2+ Ap to get back. 

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44 minutes ago, Adran said:

Noxious smoke can be amazing.  Up we go is a shockingly powerful attack. I'd say its probably even better than Grab and Drop.

Remember, you have to put markers in base contact with its 30 mm base...so in fact it's much weaker than Ice wall or other things that you can place touching each other and maybe not into base contact

45 minutes ago, Adran said:

I've had the insignifigant discussion several times. And as a general rule I think I only make my master interact about 1 in 10 games. That may well be a play style, but the faction isn't lacking in fast moving models to interact if thats what you want. 

A chatty master would be horrible. You could never get deliver a message for a start. And I think you'll find Zipp is very hard to kill with that defence trigger. 

I absolutely agree, but still in this 10% of the games can make the difference between win and loose....mostly if the game is tight in VPs. Why a Chatty master would be horrible? too strong?

1 hour ago, Dogmantra said:

I'm most excited about Up We Go!

This would be the best option, imo too. Ignoring armor and other damage reduction, is pretty nice as well...despite the reposition is the main reason of this attack !

:D

Can't wait to see its upgrades....but

SERIOUSLY WYRD

How do you expect we can put into a case 2 Som'er skeeters....and 3 mechanical skeeters?

This is impossible without destroying them in thousands of small parts...please take into account next times you design models

:huh::huh:

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14 minutes ago, Blacks85 said:

SERIOUSLY WYRD

How do you expect we can put into a case 2 Som'er skeeters....and 3 mechanical skeeters?

This is impossible without destroying them in thousands of small parts...please take into account next times you design models

:huh::huh:

maxresdefault.jpg

 

There are many options for transport!

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Just now, Kobayashi said:

Found it ... it's pricey, especially ordering from where I live, but one can save up for an upcoming birthday present :D errr okay, I guess that is enough off-topic

If you want a cheaper alternative, I use these:

Tape some bubblewrap to the bottom and sides, then get a cheap $1 baking tray, cut off the edges, and tape it down to the bottom, over top of the bubblewrap. Use some Green Stuff to stick some also inexpensive magnet tape to the bottom of your minis, and you've got two carrying cases for under $30 US.

I've been using them for about four years now, and they've been great. :)

 

51JuCSZokIL._SL1329_.jpg

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I have exactly that tablewar case...it works wonderful.

However...they take almost half a shelf only for them....and everytime you put inside or outside, you might break them...and if you want to transport the whole faction they take too much space!!

But more important....

November I'll go to UK tournament and that can't be used for flying :(

 

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1 hour ago, Reagusmage said:

Problem with magnetizing bases is a lot of people like using resin bases, which don't have space under the base to fit a magnet of some sorts.... I wouldn't wanna have to carve out the bottom of several resin bases, jeesh

Why not just got the magnet tape so that it's completely underneath the base?

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I for one am looking forward to some sky pirate action. 

 

Quote

His Limited Upgrades allow him to choose between limiting enemy free actions or Soulstone use, and both give him an Ability to remove Conditions. 

That with his movement and placement shinnigans means he will just wreck havok on my opponents plans :D

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8 hours ago, Manic Mouse said:

I never understood why people were upset about insignificant - any model can take interact actions and your master AP is the most expensive, and rare, AP resource in the game.  Yes in a pinch you can use them for interacts, but 90% of the time you are better off using them to do what the master does.  So being insignificant doesn't really hurt him very much, it just means you can't use his ridiculous mobility to break the game. 

You do know that Interact Actions aren't just used to place Scheme Markers right? There are a host of conditions that can be removed via Interact Actions (take a look at Nellie) as well and a model that cant remove them will always suffer from them. Granted Wyrd seems to have somewhat addressed this by placing a condition removal ability upon his upgrades but that isn't really an optimal solution as it means that those upgrades become must takes instead of real options. This means that aside from not being able to contribute to Vp's through dropping Scheme counters (even if only once in ten games, which I find hard to believe as I have Som'er and Ulix drop at least one each game) your Master is also effectively only able to attach two Upgrades. I will reserve judgment until we have seen the entire box (which given the description seems to encourage Zipp to max out his Upgrade slots anyway) but Insignificant is a disadvantage.

5 hours ago, Aaron said:

maxresdefault.jpg

 

There are many options for transport!

That is a nice option but there are others that are a bit cheaper, particularly if you already own a Battle Foam bag of the correct size (or are handy with basic metal fabrication). Here is the solution that they offer

You could also just build something out of wood and then use magnetic paint (sort of a misnomer as it really isn't magnetic in and of itself but will allow magnets to stick to it because of iron filings contained in the paint, mix really well!!!)

5 hours ago, Reagusmage said:

Problem with magnetizing bases is a lot of people like using resin bases, which don't have space under the base to fit a magnet of some sorts.... I wouldn't wanna have to carve out the bottom of several resin bases, jeesh

Magnetizing resin bases isn't that difficult honestly. Buy some small "Rare Earth Magnets" and take a drill bit a little larger than the magnet. Drill into the rim of the resin base (carefully and slowly) and glue in the magnet. Easy and quick. As an added benefit Rare Earth Magnets are a lot stronger than the magnetic tape so will keep your models in place a lot better.

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17 minutes ago, Omenbringer said:

You do know that Interact Actions aren't just used to place Scheme Markers right? There are a host of conditions that can be removed via Interact Actions (take a look at Nellie) as well and a model that cant remove them will always suffer from them. Granted Wyrd seems to have somewhat addressed this by placing a condition removal ability upon his upgrades but that isn't really an optimal solution as it means that those upgrades become must takes instead of real options. This means that aside from not being able to contribute to Vp's through dropping Scheme counters (even if only once in ten games, which I find hard to believe as I have Som'er and Ulix drop at least one each game) your Master is also effectively only able to attach two Upgrades. I will reserve judgment until we have seen the entire box (which given the description seems to encourage Zipp to max out his Upgrade slots anyway) but Insignificant is a disadvantage.

The upgrades are limited, which means they are probably basically must takes in one form or another.  But that isn't really much different from other limited upgrades, and plenty of masters would be worse without one.  Dreamer for example, his limited upgrades are "must takes" even moreso.  It's not a problem, or at least I don't see how it is.  It's simply how the master works - nobody complains that dreamer isn't good because he *has* to take one of his upgrades to be played optimally, and his are more essential than what you describe here.

Nobody is arguing that insignificant isn't a disadvantage - has anyone tried to say it's an advantage?  It just isn't the huge deal some people seem to be making it out to be, and is certainly offset by Zipps other advantages.  Wk 8 and flight, specifically.  For the purposes of scoring VP his aura is going to win you more points (by denying the enemy theirs) than being able to place scheme markers.  He has other ways to remove conditions.

Some masters have no ranged attacks.  Some masters have Df 4.  Some masters have a low cache.  Some masters have Wp 5.  Some masters need you to buy an entire range of models to summon to play to their full potential.  Plenty of masters have flaws and weaknesses, nothing new here.

Personally I'm very glad that Justin and the team have made an insignificant master, that plays really differently than anyone else in the game.  Obviously it's too soon to say he's OP or awful, but I think he certainly looks good to me - and I can't wait to drive my opponents crazy with him.

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Is there another Master that can't place Scheme Markers? Zipp is mobile but there are other Masters that are as well and aren't Insignifcant.

As for complaints about "must take" upgrades, well there were a lot of those when the new edition came out (especially when it was revealed that Hans could remove upgrades), now people just accept it. That doesn't mean they like it. I for one am of the opinion that something that has to be taken all the time for a model to be effective should just be given to them in the first place. To each there own.

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11 minutes ago, Omenbringer said:

Is there another Master that can't place Scheme Markers? Zipp is mobile but there are other Masters that are as well and aren't Insignifcant.

As for complaints about "must take" upgrades, well there were a lot of those when the new edition came out (especially when it was revealed that Hans could remove upgrades), now people just accept it. That doesn't mean they like it. I for one am of the opinion that something that has to be taken all the time for a model to be effective should just be given to them in the first place. To each there own.

No there isn't, and for a long time no master other than Seamus had Df 4.  Did that make seamus bad?  Again, seamus had ways to offset his weakness. So does Zipp.  Zipp having a weakness no other master has doesn't instantly make him bad.  Yes other masters are mobile, none that can move 24" ignoring terrain in a turn that I can think of.

When it comes to "essential" upgrades I think of it more like Wyrd giving themselves a bit of leeway with model design and what they can fit on the card.  Case in point - would you rather have had them build condition removal into his card by removing another ability, lower his cache and made the upgrades it was previously on on cheaper?  6 of one, half a dozen of another because you would have had to remove one of his other "essential" abilities on the card to make room for it - so it doesn't make much of a difference.

It seems you have an emotional and existential dislike of "essential" upgrades.  But I would rather masters like the Dreamer exist in the game that need those upgrades, than remove those masters for the sake of some nebulous principle.  "Essential" upgrades on masters don't make the game any worse, and it wouldn't be better without them.  The whole idea of limited upgrades were that they were so good you could only have one, very few masters can be played optimally without one of their limited upgrades so I don't know why Zipp would be any different.

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14 hours ago, Manic Mouse said:

Nobody is arguing that insignificant isn't a disadvantage - has anyone tried to say it's an advantage?  It just isn't the huge deal some people seem to be making it out to be, and is certainly offset by Zipps other advantages.  Wk 8 and flight, specifically.  For the purposes of scoring VP his aura is going to win you more points (by denying the enemy theirs) than being able to place scheme markers.  He has other ways to remove conditions.

 

21 hours ago, Adran said:

I've had the insignifigant discussion several times. And as a general rule I think I only make my master interact about 1 in 10 games. That may well be a play style, but the faction isn't lacking in fast moving models to interact if thats what you want. 

EDIT => Ignore this, I need a reading course. :o

 

 

I think you are heavily underestimating a point in this game...and Wyrd made a huge mistake here.

We have - at least so far - 2 schemes which can give all non-peon models the ability to "TAG" or "EXHAUST" condition to earn VP.

If you target ZIPP, he can't remove the condition from itself, grating your opponent A HUGE advantage because he can make automatically lot of Vps.

Considering "Exhaust their forces" is a symbol schem...you have ~50% of the game where ZIPP is not usable. Not fair, I guess.

So, unless they re-word the schemes replacing non-peon with "non-insignifcant" or something like that, this is a true handikap.

Yes, he can "almost" stop other to do interact action, but for enemies is enough to hide behind models os terrains to be able to remove condition

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