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Pyrflamme

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Whether or not Asami it too powerful I can't say.  The interactions in this game are far to complex for my small brain to comprehend.  What I will say is, IMHO, Asami is not a summoner.  A summoner brings models onto the table and someone has to actively remove them to get rid of them.  Asami is an AP generator.  Her summoned models come onto the table do something and leave.  If you said she does summon models you are technically correct (the best kind of correct), but it is the mechanic she uses to generate AP, not persistent models.

If Asami needs to remove a scheme marker way over there she summons a Tengu who uses 1 AP to fly then his (0) to discard a card to remove the marker.  At the end of the round he's gone.  She generated some extra actions that turn, not a model that sticks around for the rest of the game.  

 

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8 hours ago, Da Git said:

That's actually a very good question about From The Maw, They Come, is it Flicker +1 plus all Corpse Counters (max+3) so +4, of is it +3 combined.  I can read it both ways.

I was reading it as the eating corpse markers could give up to +3, so after the +1 they come into play with, they'd have +4 total.

Still it'd be a good thing to have clarified sooner as opposed to later.

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1 minute ago, Nexus said:

I was reading it as the eating corpse markers could give up to +3, so after the +1 they come into play with, they'd have +4 total.

Still it'd be a good thing to have clarified sooner as opposed to later.

It says "increase the value of it's Flicker Condition by the number of Markers discarded, to a max of Flicker +3.

It starts its summon with Flicker +1, and you increase that condition by 1 per marker. The limit put on this is +3. Can't go higher than that.

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8 minutes ago, Tokapondora said:

It says "increase the value of it's Flicker Condition by the number of Markers discarded, to a max of Flicker +3.

It starts its summon with Flicker +1, and you increase that condition by 1 per marker. The limit put on this is +3. Can't go higher than that.

Right, that's how they word things that stack.

So, it gets Flicker +1 on summons.    Done.
Then it can eat corpses to add a max of Flicker +3.

The limit is how much is added by eating corpses.   Not the total amount of Flicker it can have.
You could eat 10 corpses and still add a max of Flicker +3 to the total.

So, for example, if something theoretically came into play with Flicker +3 already on it, you could then eat up to 3 corpses to add up to a maximum of Flicker +3 to that model.
Resulting in Flicker +6.

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I more easily read it as the it summons in with Flicker +1, and then increases this for each marker removed but only to a max of Flicker +3.  It says increase that condition (Flicker +1) for each marker removed, to a max of Flicker +3.

So start at Flicker +1 > remove one marker > increase to Flicker +2 > remove second marker > increase to Flicker +3 > remove third marker > we are are the Max of Flicker +3, so no more increases allowed. 

However, I could see your interpretation also being the intended effect. I'm just not sure the language is 100% clear. 

 

 

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26 minutes ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

Again I don't know for certain, but I expect the majority of her summons to stay effectively on the board for most if not all of the game.

I expect (and hope) that her summons will stay on the board on average as long as the Dreamer's, with the exception that they'll just go away on their own most of the time, rather than demanding an AP expenditure from the opponent. Now, the Dreamer is not exactly a paragon of balance, but Asami doesn't appear to have access to anything as good as Stitched Togethers either, so I am not as concerned as you are. Also, Johan, Chiaki, Low River Monks, Lady J, and probably some other stuff I don't know about can one shot any of these, and given the ubiquity of Johan that is a serious liability.

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Yeah, I'm not locked on my interpretation being correct.
And I can certainly see it being either way.

Actually the more I read it, the more that "to a max of +3" is making me think Paddywhack and Tokapondora may be correct.
Otherwise it would say "by a max of +3".

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Her summoning is suit dependent and I can't think of any Ten Thunders she can hire to provide card draw shenanigans.  So she won't be out-summoning the Dreamer.  She's pretty frail compared to most Resser masters, and Wrath of the Oni eats her wounds.  Willpower 5 is a bit low for such a squishy master; might consider taking Servant of 5 Dragons.  Also, unlike Molly or Dreamer, she doesn't have Accomplice, and I've seen no Oni models with Companion so far.  So sometimes Wrath of the Oni won't be used, because either someone will charge the new summon, or she'll just summon it right into combat to keep enemies away from her. 

She needs scheme markers to heal, so unless you waste a significant model's time just standing next to her dropping scheme markers all game, she'll probably be moving around.  This is compounded by Ten Thunders having no way to create scrap or corpse markers the way Arcanists or Ressers can.  So there's more movement involved.  To top it off her other actions are good enough that you'll likely be spending most of your turn doing things other than summoning especially if the cards didn't favour you with any high masks.  Slapping Oni's Strength on a couple Jorogumo or a Katanaka Sniper then gobbling up scheme counters seems pretty useful in itself.

We'll have to see when people finally get her on the field, but on paper she seems pretty balanced to me.

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So just because I like posting things here, my two cents on our newest Master:

Without knowing the upgrades, hard to put any kind of placement here, but we do have some lovely tricks on her card, so let's start there:

Rush of Magic is amazing. Hands down. And it's fantastic on a summoner. Nuff said.

Hard to Kill. As many have pointed out already, this is really her only defensive trick beyond Df7. That WP5 hurts, and only 10wds is pretty low for a master that wants to be mid to close range.

Wrath of the Oni. This ability is nuts in moderation. It's absolutely fantastic. But in a world of min 3 damage dealers... you have 3 oni that can charge before you're in a charge into htk range. Now, that's still 3 oni... and she has heals built in. This isn't terrible. But it's not like your'e going to hurl her into the fray, pop out a ton of minions and then just go come at me bro. That's asking for a face planting. But tactical use of this ability is going to be fantastic. Especially in late turns. Don't forget that with her flicker mechanic, the summon gains value as the game goes on.

Another Mouth to Feed. This ability is awesome, but its only 1". She has a charge of 6" so this is more of an, "oh look, there's a tasty treat over here and it's allllll aloooooooone."  Now that being said it's triggers are fantastic. Kind of a lowered Misaki attack, without the movement shenanigans. Now it makes up for itself with her next attack:

Reaching Tendrils. Now this is an awesome ability. It's not quite as powerful as say, swirling spirits or lightning dance, as it's a push so terrain matters. But it's fun. And it can potentially enable a devastating Mouth attack.

An Insatiable Hunger. This ability is amazing tech. I will be questing to use Yu with wandering river to move scheme markers to her with mighty gust and then chomp on them. Or just running tengu as a healing battery. Colette beware! This ability makes Oiran pretty useful too because you can run Hidden Agenda, use their WP bubble to help buff Asami's WP to 6, lure in enemies to nom and use her fast to drop scheme markers for Asami-chow. Fantastic piece of "help me stay alive." Asami desperately needs this as she's going to fold to any dedicated beater.

An Oni's Strength. Two words: Katanka Sniper. Seriously though, this ability is fantastic for basically everyone in our arsenal. She can even target herself as its a tactical and its an Oni OR a minion, no restriction for dem oni! With a 2/4/6, that's pretty damned respectable. The fact that it can hit any of our particularly awesome minions is just great. Pumping up Asami or her hench is like icing on the cake.

From the Maw, they Come. Ok this ability is just awesome with her kit. Like others have pointed out, you're looking at dropping a beater ideally, charging for 1AP and then doing what needs done before they either get dispelled or just flat out killed. I love how this ability fits flavor wise for her fluff. The snippet of her backstory talks about her wanting a family, losing hers, and being coerced into a dark pact with an oni, for the hopes of gaining a family. Enter a demon that lets her summon "family" but they are transient... only there for a little while. How screwed up is that? Anyways, the flavor aspects of it aside, this is a super strong ability that gets better with age. The more that dies and the less turns there are, the more potent this ability becomes. It gives it a ramp up feel that kind of makes sense. The longer the Oni consumes death and gains power, the more potent the summoning becomes. That's epic. The potential for shenanigans is strong, I agree. But I don't think it's quite in the OP category yet. But being able to pop out a Joro, focus it to +2, and then it gets a charge, a 0 action attack and just disappears, or soaks up APs from the enemy... yes please.

Overall her kit seems really strong, and depending on her hench and upgrades, she could very well go to the top tier list for 10T selections. She fills an interesting role of mid-range support/summons and that sounds like a lot of fun, personally. As long as you don't overextend her, she's going to wreck face.

She's like a scalpel... and considering we have a harrier (misaki) and a nuker (lynch), I really like that.

 

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Her totem sounds interesting.  The description says it increases the value of conditions on models, which is probably supposed to be used to increase Flicker, but I can see other uses, depending on how it's worded.

Tengu - increase the Regeneration gained from A Song of Night and Day

Fermented River Monks - extra Poison

Sensei Yu - extra Focus for even Mightier Gusts :lol:

Ten Thunder Brother - bumping Defensive +1 up to +2

This is idle speculation, but still, colour me curious.

 

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19 hours ago, Fetid Strumpet said:

I think your definition of summoning is a little limited. Again I don't know for certain, but I expect the majority of her summons to stay effectively on the board for most if not all of the game.

Based on what?  Seems like your primary issue is she doesn't need corps/scrap markers to summon, but to stay on the board more than 1 turn she needs corps/scrap markers.  

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I'm really curious to see what other (0) actions she might have on her upgrades. Just thinking about Sensei Yu.

I also really like the concept of shooting oni like missiles. We need to get an oni with a leap (0) action. 

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So, I have no experience hiring Taelor, but it seems to me that the primary weakness of Welcome to Malifaux is that she can't do anything about summons that pop up early in the game, letting Nico/Dreamer/Kirai build up a big enough force that they don't need to summon more models once Taelor is in range.

With a summoner like Asami, though, Welcome to Malifaux actually seems good, right? Because Asami is encouraged to summon at midfield, Taelor will often be able to eliminate summons, or force Asami to place them someplace they don't want to be, which is really limiting for a model that might only last a turn or two.

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I haven't had problems with her getting in range, but then I tend to play her primarily in 10T (lots of pushes) and sometimes in Outcasts (where Scout The Field is an option).

I do agree she'll make a potent counterplay to Asami, moreso than some other summoners, particularly if she camps out near the corpse/scrap counters Asami wants to use.

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6 hours ago, Pyrflamme said:

I haven't had problems with her getting in range, but then I tend to play her primarily in 10T (lots of pushes) and sometimes in Outcasts (where Scout The Field is an option).

I do agree she'll make a potent counterplay to Asami, moreso than some other summoners, particularly if she camps out near the corpse/scrap counters Asami wants to use.

I've faced her while I was using The Dreamer before and she just had no impact on the game at all, and then she died. I can really see her hurting Asami though, which, since Taelor is the biggest anti-summoning tech in the game so far, it does seem like a part of the balancing process that she'll actually have a chance to do her job here.

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3 minutes ago, tomjoad said:

I've faced her while I was using The Dreamer before and she just had no impact on the game at all, and then she died. I can really see her hurting Asami though, which, since Taelor is the biggest anti-summoning tech in the game so far, it does seem like a part of the balancing process that she'll actually have a chance to do her job here.

While Taelor will be an obstacle for Asami's summoning, you could also use her summoning to lure Taelor out of position or even use her ability to set a trap for your opponent.  I have no idea how effective these could be, i myself have never faced her, but i think a clever player could use Taelor's ability against her.

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51 minutes ago, Gort77 said:

While Taelor will be an obstacle for Asami's summoning, you could also use her summoning to lure Taelor out of position or even use her ability to set a trap for your opponent.  I have no idea how effective these could be, i myself have never faced her, but i think a clever player could use Taelor's ability against her.

I mean, there are a lot of ways to trick your opponents into making bad choices. Helping them move a relic hammer closer to your master doesn't seem like a trick they'll mind THAT much, right?

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For 1 AP and a card, or potentially a soulstone and a card you could summon an Obsidian Oni that Taelor could charge into and would explode on her for damage, then your other AP could be spent on focus and trying to eat her with maw or luring her further back and pushing away so your Jorugumo, Ohayu or Ama No Zako could charge her.

It sounds like an okay strategy to me. Plus since these Oni come in at full HP it might not even end up dying, so it can get a hit back in on Taelor.

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1 hour ago, tomjoad said:

I mean, there are a lot of ways to trick your opponents into making bad choices. Helping them move a relic hammer closer to your master doesn't seem like a trick they'll mind THAT much, right?

Unless you bring along Yamaziko and force Taelor into taking Braced Yari damage multiple times.

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I think where she sits power-wise will depend a lot on the range of the no condition removal Upgrade. If it's 4/6" it's pretty great but I think fairly competitive and manageable, if it's 10" like the Soul Porter then I think it will prove far too powerful. Against crews without condition removal though her summoning may be too potent but given that so many crews rely on conditions within 10T and other factions I think it's safe to say it'll usually be alright as most crews will have means to remove conditions or function without it against other condition-heavy Masters.

I do agree that having models survive for a number of Turns equal to their Flicker is a low-cost Summon but how the Totem ups that condition will also determine the efficacy. That being said I do hope that he can't just up the Flicker willy-nilly as then a Turn 1 Summon is very likely to stay on the table all game. Also, given Summoned models are unable to Interact in their first turn the Flicker +1 may often come into play to score VP in tandem with her other Upgrade over having them survive the entire game.

The catch-up Summoning sounds interesting but the nature of some of Malifaux's schemes means that you can be quite far behind in points but still in a good position to win so here a Summon may be too much but this is pure speculation as the cost of this Summon is not clarified at all in her write-up.

The number of Masters and models that prevent charges will make Wrath of the Oni less useful which dumbs down her Summoning a bit. I know that's a corner case issue but declaring 10T almost always means something will be in your face so those factions that can take anti-Charge will very likely take it to frustrate whichever Master they face.

Like any bubble-Master I think Masters with a lot of Pushes and Blasts will function very well against Asami especially because Blasts circumvent her high Df. I'm interested to see what her placement effect will be as it may save her from these issues.

It's funny, the other day I argued that taking Yu and the Emissary in one Crew may be too many ss in support models but I can definitely see it working here, dishing out Fast, Pushes, and Focus buffs will help a lot with her lack of passive support. I suppose that's the case with most Summoners though, the more support the better because Chiaki seems pretty attractive a hire too to remove Slow. I can also see Yamaziko being played to Brace protect Asami and allow the Jorogumo to jump around the board like crazy.

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I'd say you shouldn't be able to kill a model, summoned or not, by landing one condition removal attack? I kind-of fear the opposite that, if it's just 4/6 inch one well timed hire of a condition removal unit will completely negate this master's, let's be honest, one pony trick. Minus the summons she doesn't exactly have much at least on her card, and if the summons can be wiped away that easily she would really lose all her use if her opponent decides to bring 1/2 condition removers (and that's ignoring how they disappear the turn they're summoned normally).

The catch-up summoning sounds far too unreliable as that's not even a point you can work towards and can only really get to by making a lot of errors, while the Heavenly Design and Nefarious Pact seem like auto-takes because she needs them to make up for her summon's crippling weaknesses and give some nice bonusses to boot. As for Amanjaku, for whatever reason his description always gave me an aura-vibe that +1's conditions applied. Seems like something that would be hell to balance though. But it'd make sure he can't give people Flickers galore.

I do hope we get an upgrade or a henchman with Terrifying or at least Manipulative. I feel it'd really suit their style (lorewise, too), because let's be honest, Malifaux knows some crazy things but a mouth coming out of the wrong side of your head is really up-there. And no-eyes-lady is one of the creepiest sculpts Wyrd's ever made. Seriously I love her model so much she better be amazing x:.

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27 minutes ago, Tokapondora said:

I'd say you shouldn't be able to kill a model, summoned or not, by landing one condition removal attack? I kind-of fear the opposite that, if it's just 4/6 inch one well timed hire of a condition removal unit will completely negate this master's, let's be honest, one pony trick.

One pony trick? Ummm. The rest of her card is pretty great.

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