Pulse/Aura and Height

[Shane95]

Hi guys, so if I have a height 1 model behind a ht1 hedge and use an aura, are ht2 models and the other side of the hedge effected or does the aura just stop at the hedge?

Thanks guys

[Bengt]

The Ht of the Aura doesn't matter. If there is LoS to the other model it is affected, which there is in your example as the Ht 2 model can see over the Ht 1 obstacle.

If you look at the Aura rules on page 50 you'll notice that while it says that Auras have Hts, it doesn't actually tell you to use it for anything, or how.

[solkan]

1 hour ago, Thimblesage said:

Check this thread out. I think by consensus Auras and Pulses are "disks" so as long as models are:

1. Within the () range
2. Can draw LoS 
3. Are on the same Ht: or plane

Then the model may gain the effects of the Pulse or Aura

Your point #3 is incorrect.  Being the same Ht or on the same plane has nothing to do with auras or pulses.  You're likely to make the mistake of assuming point #3 is real because most of the time people implicitly define the ground as blocking terrain.

If you want to see something horrible and complicated, find a description of how auras and pulses worked under Malifaux 1.5, particularly the "smoke cloud" mechanic where players were expected to trace bendy lines of effect through terrain to figure out whether the aura extended somewhere:

http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/71857-auras-pulses-threw-walls-of-interior-buildings/?do=findComment&comment=312209

If you want an answer to the question "Why are the aura and pulse mechanisms unusually sparse?", that's would be part of the reason why.  Likewise, if you look at that thread's second page and compare that description of "blasts and line of sight" with the 2nd edition version.

 

[santaclaws01]

4 hours ago, Thimblesage said:

 

I was completely incorrect about the "Same Plane" bullet #3 I meant to briefly describe how the mechanic does not allow a model on a 10" 'Roof' gain the benefits of a model with a 3", 1" away but standing 'on the ground', (-10" bellow). Could you concisely describe the mechanic in your own words?

From a top down perspective a disk is correct. Otherwise a cylinder would be more accurate. And yes, that model on a 10" terrain is affected by an aura so long as it has LoS to the model generating the aura.

[Adran]

10 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

From a top down perspective a disk is correct. Otherwise a cylinder would be more accurate. And yes, that model on a 10" terrain is affected by an aura so long as it has LoS to the model generating the aura.

Whilst you could look at an auras as a cylinder, that's not actually how their effects work for 99% of the time. 

In most cases, the 2 things that matter are

1 Can you see the point of origon?

2 Are you with the rg of the aura?

If they are both yes, then the aura has its effect.

The only time Ht matters is if the Aura uses terrain traits, like dense, blocking or cover. 

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

I would just figure it like normal LOS.  A Ht1 model hiding behind a Ht1 wall has LOS to a Ht2 model, thus the aura/pulse can take effect.

[Shane95]

Okay thanks guys

 

So my bayou bushwhacker makes everything in (3) count as soft cover, would the other side of the ht1 hedge count as cover or is it the same situation?

 

Could do with some clarification from wyrd on the whole pulse ht rules it would seem!

[solkan]

Please note the definition of the Ht characteristic:

Quote

Height (Ht): The model’s relative height in the game. Ht is used when drawing Line of Sight (see pg. 40).

(Note that that is the only definition of the Ht characteristic in the rulebook, in spite of the rules stating that terrain, blasts, and auras have a Ht characteristic.)

and also notice the fact that word height is amazingly rare in the rulebook:

• Number of uses of the word height in the rules manual:  7 (plus two uses on the Index page)
  • for line of sight:  3
  • for defining terrain: 2
  • for defining the characteristic: 1
  • for saying that it's not used in measurements: 1

In a similar manner, in reference to the Ht characteristic, out of approximately 40 times that Ht occurs in the Rules Manual, it occurs three times in the discussion of falling off of terrain, sixteen times from pages 11 to 45 in relation to line of sight, and every other reference to Ht is to say that something has a Ht stat (or specify the value of something's Ht stat).

 

[Flib Jib]

Thanks solkan,

I thought you mentioned in the thread, "Spheres, Cylinders, Hemispheres or something else?" that they were not Spheres, Cylinders, or Hemispheres but something else and the implication was that they were disks, was I misinterpreting your meaning? In your response you opened my eyes to the concept that both  do not have height but are assigned a Ht: value (sigh, semantics) for the purposes of drawing LoS and NO other reason. 

For someone who has a hard time playing strategically or even comfortably in the abstract, is it problematic thinking of  as a disk, (with Ht: assignments?) or are there reasons that this would complicate or compromise the rules. All I see in the rule book is the text, "emanates in all direction" This, coupled with the Golden rule of all measurements are made top-town plus all of the illustrations lead me to think 'Disk'

I was completely incorrect about the "Same Plane" bullet #3 I meant to briefly describe how the mechanic does not allow a model on a 10" 'Roof' gain the benefits of a model with a 3", 1" away but standing 'on the ground', (-10" bellow). Could you concisely describe the mechanic in your own words?

[Adran]

You're making me look up my sources...

But I stand by my earlier post, because of this thread. 

This is an old thread, and its important to remember that answers on the rules forum aren't strict, but it does contain Justin, and basically your point 3 doesn't matter. 

All measurements in Malifaux are made from a top down view, this is regardless of the Ht of the objects being measured to/from.

The Ht stat of a model does not affect whether it is within range of another model, since the measurements are done top down.

The same is true of auras and pulses.

The Ht of such effects is mentioned because some pulses/auras block LoS, in which case their Ht could prove relevan

[Flib Jib]

Check this thread out. I think by consensus Auras and Pulses are "disks" so as long as models are:

1. Within the () range
2. Can draw LoS 
3. Are on the same Ht: or plane

Then the model may gain the effects of the Pulse or Aura

 

Bengt has a good point, I wish that the rules better defined the use of the height mechanic for Auras and Pulses.