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Emissary - Lend me your experiences


Kobayashi

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13 minutes ago, Blacks85 said:

It doesn't make sense...it has a free 0 UPG which is the only you can give to it...how can you lose a free upg?

You don't have to give it it's own Upgrade - it is a normal Enforcer so has one Upgrade slot that you can fill with a generic Upgrade or one specific to it (or you can leave it empty but that's not a very good idea :D ). Carrion Emissary is often used with the Little Helper Upgrade that allows it to use a (0)Action twice in order to lay two sets of shards on a critical turn instead of a Conflux. But I do agree with you that forfeiting the free Upgrade for a 1SS Dirty Cheater doesn't seem very enticing.

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18 minutes ago, Omenbringer said:

Really Wish the Emissary would have had the Pig and/or Gremlin characteristics. He is really difficult to justify over our other choices which have them and are a bit more focused in terms of usage (read as not at odds with their options).

Yeah, in a faction with a bunch of focus on characteristic synergy, it would have been nice to have that, or at least have some of the confluxes provide it, like Ulix's could give it Pig, Brewie's could give it Tri-Chi, etc. I was gonna say Som'er could give it Gremlin but then imo his conflux is one of the best already and he's also probably the strongest master so idk if he needs the buff.

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While the schemes and strats haven't brought it to the table, I think 2 swine cursed + lucky emissary in A OOH GLOWY Wong list might have play.  giving + to minions w/ in 4 makes your hand all about the other 25 SS you took and getting those pig rams. Also trixie can push/pull the lot and quantity of cards flipped with the swine 0 is likely to get the emissary up the field and waste 0 AP on moving.

Haven't had the chance to play it, but i am always happy for + flips in gremlins and saving my hand.   also regenning,  min 4 dmg emissary with Ml 6 and 3 in range is nice. 

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14 hours ago, Rhadge said:

While the schemes and strats haven't brought it to the table, I think 2 swine cursed + lucky emissary in A OOH GLOWY Wong list might have play.  giving + to minions w/ in 4 makes your hand all about the other 25 SS you took and getting those pig rams. Also trixie can push/pull the lot and quantity of cards flipped with the swine 0 is likely to get the emissary up the field and waste 0 AP on moving.

Haven't had the chance to play it, but i am always happy for + flips in gremlins and saving my hand.   also regenning,  min 4 dmg emissary with Ml 6 and 3 in range is nice. 

Still not sold on the Emissary. Making him a buffing agent, ties him down reducing his mobility (making him a less durable Gracie IMO). Also the Swine-cursed :ram trigger can cause them to attack the Emissary which is a non-pig model or easily move out of its smallish buffing bubble. As for Trixie well she can only really ever push the Emissary (non-pig and non-gremlin) and when the Swine-Cursed are Gremlin characteristic they can only ever come to her (when they are pigs they will always push away). Positioning and activation order is going to be very tricky even with her long range Gremlin Lure.

I think Old Major with the Saddle Upgrade would be a better buffing option since he can either carry a Swine-Cursed or Trixie for free movement (can augment this further with his 0 action for Gremlin characteristic models or his 1 AP action to both push pig models and provide a suit for their actions) while also handing out :+fate on both attack and damage on the charges when the Swine-Cursed are Pig characteristic (this is for the duration of the models activation as well so it doesn't matter if they move out of the bubble through charge actions).

I would also argue Gracie is the better melee option. She can get to min damage 5 with her trigger and Ooh Glowy! can gain reactivate on her own, and I would argue is more durable giving she has Hard to Kill, Armor +2, and Eat Your Fill. With Wong's Ooh Glowy she would also have Regeneration. Add the Saddle Upgrade and she can cart around Aa Swine-Cursed )or other Gremlin model). Even the Sow challenges the Emissary's role a bit and at a cheaper cost.

I like the Emissary's model but the rules are where it falls apart, it just doesn't really fit in with the synergy that is such a strength of our faction. Making it work takes a lot of effort in comparison to many of our other options. I look forward to reading how your combo works out for you though.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I just tried the emissary with Somer 1 before going to vacation, but I was really glad by the result.

On 1 turn I didn t had to use a single card for summoning (I forced my self not to even if I had a bunch of 8) and after that, he played the role of a threat and granted me the win while my enemy focused 2 turns on him in order to get quick murder. You're all right about the fact that we have some really good specific models for specific roles , which thanks to their characteristic gets more sinergies, but that's where I think the emissary comes in place (to a further extent, somewhat like mctavish). He's a solid 10 ss piece, whith good characteristics, fairly good survivability, repositioning tricks, and solid range+ dmg spread, which gets free sinergy (not always that good , but with somer I find it amazing) , able also to do a couple of charges in one turn with a good hand or some luck. About the argument that Gracie could be a better option, I think that she's better in certain situations but requires a lot of work behind her in order to keep her useful: sure she is a tough girl, but in order to be healthy she needs to kill stuff ( not that is hard, but not something that you are sure is gonna happen) or to attack whith a mediocre attack and in order to dish out that amount of damage, she needs a ram of some kind, which is something not only obtainable by "luck", but fairly contended by a lot other gremlins. Another thing, is that I find Gracie kinda card intensive, and has such low mobility when left by her own, that makes it easy for your enemy to play around her, and hard for her to exit tricky situations (wk of 4 is really low, and if you don't have something to kill or a spare crow to attack one of your pieces, you can't really spam the reactivate). With all this said, I don't think that Gracie is worse than the emissary  ( I actually think that Gracie is an amazing piece, which does an amazing job if well used) or the other way around, but I just think that sometimes having a model that works very well by it's own is a good thing to have, depending of course on each person play style. I for sure am gonna test him out more with Somer and mah.

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  • 1 month later...

Bit of a thread necro. I've tried the emissary with almost every master (don't own zoraida) and so far it's been relatively unimpressive.  The only time it's really done something amazing was a game I took it with Brewie and it's attack hitting the push enemy/charge another trigger punted von schill out of my deploy to prevent undercover entourage scoring full pts, winning a game I really had no business winning.   

 

That was until I took the emissary with Somer's conflux yesterday, and it was awesome!  The +'s to bayou two card helped out my crew so much (was corner deploy so really easy to get a lot of things within 4 of the emissary), and made Somer's gun a true terror when attempting to blast off my own bayou grems and onto enemy models.  I had Somer within 4 inches, and the first bayou i targeted was too and the +'s to 2 card allowed me to hit at least a straight flip on all my attacks (choosing highest for the shoot and lowest for defense).  I had no cards in hand so it made the attacks very deadly and reliable with no resources.   In one turn of shooting he killed jack daw, ama-no-zako, montressor, sue, lady ligea almost all with blasts!   On turn 2 no less...

My opponent hadn't really played against Somer and bunched up really tightly, and I doubt that will ever happen again, but neither of us expected those levels of damage in one turn.

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  • 2 months later...
On 7/20/2016 at 3:56 AM, Blacks85 said:

I've tried it again, with Zoraida this time.

  • The upgrade which give you :+fate on Obey? That was disappointing...after you hit someone with emissary granting the condition you don't know what to do with multiple obeys on him. And it's engaged with at least the emissary, so even if you want to shoot you have to disengage with 1 Obey and then shoot with 1 Obey, which is not really good. Also attack in melee is very conditional because you need a multiple models brawl involving your emissary...overall not good imo.
  • The new (0) on the upgrade was very, very useful...you can likely change a low card with an high card and prepare whatever you want for the next nurse activation. (or for the next duel if you didn't out-activate your opponent)
  • The combo with the "summoned slow doll" and the (1) AP paralyze is amazing. That grants you the possibility with a 12+ in hand to paralyze anything in 16" radius with only the Zoraida activation using 3 (AP). Sure, you trade a master for a non master but being a support for Zoraida is overall a good option (Yesterday I've paralyzed Francisco on turn 1 forcing my opponent to make a choice: keep perdita still on the next turn to have the +2/+2 bonus or leave francicso alone losing the bonus for 2 turns. That basically swing the game in my favor and gave me the win)

After all, I'm unsure if it is worth with Zoraida...I think not. Nurse is extremely strong, cheaper and it's more flexible. Only real benefit is that you can Obey emissary to paralyze when you summon doll, just a 7+ of any suit required...and you can't get squeezed by a turn without :crow.

Regarding Emissary in general....After 6-7 games I don't think is good enough to deserve the 10SS spot it takes...~without any synergy with other Gremlins.

  • Incredibly durable, mostly because people focus it don't really know isn't that good...It has handled thousand of attacks (thanks to the many source of healing in Gremlin)...but it won't be the target in the near future...as soon as people realize is not that threat.
  • "Not enough" dmg for a gremlin 10 SS model
  • No synergies with the team...

Negative so far, but next time I will try it with Wong and "oooo glowy" and so on, maybe going into the brawl with 4/5/7 ignoring everything and buffing the blast? I don't know, we'll see.

How did you heal it? It's not a pig nor a gremlin so can't use slop haulers...

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  • 3 months later...

Following the Necro-trend, I was just wondering if anyone had any new experience with the Lucky Emissary? I recently received and painted the model, and now I find myself intimidated by the idea of playing our wheel-of-lucky-doom. 

Is there any specific situation / scheme that just screams "100% Lucky Emissary here" to you guys?

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Honestly I want to make it work because I always wanted to use my peaches model. Atm I think the below could be good.

Somer

-Family Tree

-Encouragement (as per Dogmantra's recommendation)

Lucky Emissary

- Conflux of Misfortune

Burt Jebson

Slop Hauler

Slop Hauler

Bayou Gremlin 

Bayou Gremlin 

Bayou Gremlin 

Flex 9 SS (as per ideas in posts bellow)

Trixie/ 1-2x dirty cheater/gun for a lady/ raphael / skeeter /sammy

I think this list could work because 9 models (6 bayous) can use the bayou two card mechanic and they can use it pretty well. Also I think Bigger Hat than you can get a lot of play because if it goes off you then have the card advantage on almost every flip the rest of the turn. I think it becomes down right terrifying if somer gets do it like this for rams down and then empties both players hands. Nothing stops him from trying 3 times and its much more likely your opponent runs out of good cards when you have your hand + potentially 3 cards off the top once your good cheat cards in hand are spent. I think in this list trixie becomes a staple since she can get somer that first activation to bigger hat than you and also allows you to use your hands power more often since with this list you plan to get rid of both players hands quickly (or at least threaten that you can). Also her gun is pretty amazing with proper set up (++ damage flip on rams, Slow on tomes, free 6 inch push towards her for friendly gremlins on crows, you can use a bayou or the lucky emissary to block the guns push away and 3/4/5 damage is pretty great). Even if bigger hat isn't used just the threat of losing their whole hand every turn means that the opponent needs to play pretty safe. 

Average flip (no cheating)

7+ 53.7%

8+ 46.3%

9+ 38.9%

10+ 31.5%

11+ 24.1%

12+ 16.7%

13+ 9.3%

 

When you flip and have + flip bayou two card  (three cards altogether) (not considering the black joker)

7+ 90.7%
8+ 85.3%
9+ 78.0%
10+ 68.7%
11+ 57.0%
12+ 42.8%
13+ 25.7%

 

(I chose against subtracting the odds of getting the black joker since it will only be hit once per 54 cards and thus its effect could be overstated in the statistics given its overall effect.  Odds assume a fresh deck but this should definitely show the advantage this ability gives). 

The fact that over 50% of the time a bayou would be hitting & defending with a 15 is a fun concept and I'm ready to try it. The slop hauler making stuff def 4 would just be icing.

Even if you don't use bigger hat than you the sheer card advantage demonstrated above means that bayous/slops /somer become much stronger and it becomes much harder to react as the opponent (since 3 10+ cards in hand would already be considered a high amount).  I think taking encouragement on sammy could be another potential option trading some self wounds and less resilience for versatility. (though I really like that bayou two card can be applied to the damage flip pretty easily).

Imo I like the emissary in somer and I think its better than lenny because he really amplifies each bayou/slop/somer in a way that somer doesn't already do and it makes non focus shots scary and makes focus shots even into cover super scary. Also the emissary is probably our most resilient model, it has a 3 inch engagement and with its 0 actions feels like it gets 2.5 ap + its aura (a 3 inch push or a weak attack with shorter range or in rare cases the hat of destiny). Also having wk 6 + its "roll it that way" trigger makes it easier to position and keep up with the list. Last thing although I didn't include the regular bayou two card odds compared to the positive flip bayou two card odds I will state that the odds of a 10+ go from 53.5% to 68.7% which is a 28.5% increase which brings up the ~50% stat by about +1.1 card number (super relevant since that basically means that a model with bayou two card gets on average + 1.1 to all its characteristic and also removes a very significant level of variance from the flip). All this means that bayou two card models become more or less self sufficient and no longer need support from your hand allowing you to funnel everything to the emissary, burt and trixie who are super card reliant. 

As a center piece with the whole list and master revolving around the emissary it could very well be one of the more impactful models in our line. Especially since a ml 8 model that cant or wont cheat from hand will only hit a def 4 bayou gremlin with bayou two card with +flip about half the time.

Just my 2 cents maybe ill try this list this week for fun :D. 

Edits: for new ideas & flex

 

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4 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

With two slop haulers and all those positives flying around it seems a shame to not find space for Encouragement as well, just for even more of a boost.

I felt exactly the same way I just didn't love the idea of getting rid of the last skeeter, switching Trixi for Raphael, or switching Burt for a Taxidermist and getting rid of a bayou. I also thought of getting rid of dirty cheater and gun for a lady but I think the cost is pretty steep because then I don't have a model that can flank by itself and I lose a lot of possible damage output :(. Also because of the way + flips and bayou two card work it kind of works against itself a bit since if for example (ml = df) you hit a 2 & a 9 with encouragement you will be reluctant to push your luck vs a 7 because your already hitting. This puts you in a position where you don't want to push your luck further but it then cost you a wound for limited effect. 

Overall it's still a great combo and the Positives of encouragement are pretty nice.  It makes terrifying checks much easier and doesn't cost an extra wound on top of the attack, it makes the enemy cheat first more often and it helps trixie, burt, & the emissary when your low on cards, 4 cards flipped to find what you need for bayou two card models (two at a time so it's less likely you hit the black joker).

I think removing the skeeter is the way to go if I want to fit encouragement but it's tough because suits are so clutch on somers crew. Maybe since all the models use Rams very well relying on somer will work.

On another note im also starting to like the idea because bayous have that sweet sweet 12 inch sh range so if you stood the emissary dead center of the board it would have a nice 18 inch area of impact. (1' radius for a 50mm + 4' Bubble radius + 1' bayou gremlin base + 12 inch range). Also the fact that the enemy can't take cover vs bigger hat than you is great because normally they would think they are safeish from the gun (especially hard cover).

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17 minutes ago, lame0 said:

Also because of the way + flips and bayou two card work it kind of works against itself a bit since if for example (ml = df) you hit a 2 & a 9 with encouragement you will be reluctant to push your luck vs a 7 because your already hitting. This puts you in a position where you don't want to push your luck further but it then cost you a wound for limited effect.

Very true. But I think what makes Encouragement worth taking is that it allows you to get the straight flip vs cover without focusing, and then that unlocks the ability to Bayou Two Card for a positive. I would personally probably drop Trixie for Raphael tio save the stones, but then I find her to be quite overrated anyway, although I do agree with your reasoning for keeping her.

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5 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

Very true. But I think what makes Encouragement worth taking is that it allows you to get the straight flip vs cover without focusing, and then that unlocks the ability to Bayou Two Card for a positive. I would personally probably drop Trixie for Raphael tio save the stones, but then I find her to be quite overrated anyway, although I do agree with your reasoning for keeping her.

Your right I think encouragement is also pretty key so it works out to. 

Flex 9 ss

Trixie/ 1-2x dirty cheater/gun for a lady/ raphael / skeeter /sammy

Sammy is actually pretty good especially since she has bayou two card ignores cover, doesn't randomize into combat and doesn't care about the damage flip so she would be great for holding encouragement. She has Df 7 and wp 6 so hitting her will be a nightmare. Also she makes somers shooting & bigger hat than you way stronger so yeah. 

With this list the godly gremlin healing is required. Slop haulers will be going double duty healing summoning, dumb luck, encouragement, and reckless wounds on top of everything else. (this list takes a ton of healing in dirty cheater, 2 slop haulers & Destined.)

I also like that bigger hat than you doesn't even have to succeed for it to do exactly what you want. If your opponent is able to to save their hand they also just used 2-3 face/red joker cards which means you are at the advantage anyway.

I love the idea of my gremlins being John Travolta & Samuel L. Jackson in the Divine Intervention Scene in Pulp Fiction.

 

Edit: I flipped some tests with somer doing bigger hat than you 11 times vs wp 6 and wp 7 assuming both masters stone for cards (this is with encouragement and + flips to bayou two card). Below are the results  

 

image.png.999a000fbf8de1dda7a66474aca42f1b.png    image.png

       
       

 

So overall its super consistent and the only time it failed to get bigger hat than you off was vs a hand with 1 kings 1 queen 1 jack and the red joker. Obviously only doing this test 11 times each doesn't really represent the statistic but...it would be pretty damn hard to calculate so I have to go by a few tests. I'm gona try and expand to 20.

 

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I ran him with Wong, and wew lads, was it ever nuts. Lucky and two Swine-Cursed all having the Ooo Glowy buff was quite the nice distraction to let Wong prance around and do whatever he pleased. Adding regen to his long list of defenses make him particularly infuriating to deal with.

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The upgrade with Zipp seems fun - With Zipp being able to push the Lucky Emissary 8 and causing 2 DMG to all hit (if they fail a WK12 duel) could be helpful. Like many have said, the Emissary seems to conflict with itself - Many of its upgrades enjoy close quarters with other friendly models, but it is a highly mobile and tanky piece that enjoy roaming the board. With Zipp's upgrade it becomes more of a frontline model that disrupts the enemy.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the average WK around 4-5? If so, it'd take at least a 7.

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  • 5 months later...
On 16/08/2017 at 10:11 AM, Rosskov said:

I use it with Zorida.

The ability to paralyse the hemmed target for 1 ap and card draw shenanigans for a 0 is really useful. 

It can be a decent pick when quick murder is in the pool. 

Can somebody please explain this 1AP Paralyse thing for me? I'm really not seeing how it comes about. 

I can see the (1) Action on the Emissary of course (makes the enemy Slow, or Paralysed if already Slow), but when the Voodoo Doll gets summoned, doesn't it first gain Slow (from the Summon), then take it's Hem Action (meaning that the Hem target does not gain Slow)?

Thanks

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Doll is summoned, gets automatic Slow then it can Hem so opponent can't get this Slow but if you target Doll with Emissary and Paralyse it (because it was Slow already) then Hemmed model will get Paralyse as well.

19 minutes ago, Bazlord_Prime said:

And the newly-cheapened Survivors can use their :aura4 (0) Action to reduce enemy's Wk to 4 (and prevent Charges), to help out with that :-)

Sadly it requires too much setup in my opinion so it is not reliable trick.

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