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Steamage Dandy

Hamelin vs Victorias - looking for advice

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Hello everone,

I'm new to the game and have played only a couple of games with my Hamelin crew, which were all nice and fun until I faced the Victorias.

Having to play Reckoning against them was no fun whatsoever. In the end I lost 8:6, managing to score 5 points from my shemes, as did my opponent, but only once scoring from the strategy.

The no fun part however was not due to losing, but rather due to the feeling of being massively outmatched. Facing a crew with such massive damage output and very powerful and obvious abilities, which also has access to hard to kill condition removall, card and soulstone manipulation etc was quite daunting, even frustrating. Thinking about the game afterwards I could not see alot thatt I could have done differentlxy to change the outcome.

So far I only have the Hamelin starter and the brotherhood of the rat box - so Hamelins core crew, with the "The Lost" models awaiting painting. My list featured

Hamelin (The Plague, Survivalist, The Piper)

Nix (Hollow, Infectious melodies)

2x Ratcatcher

Lost

Obedient Wretch

5 rats (ended up summoning two ratkings on turn 1)

 

versus

 

Victoria 1

Victoria 2

Johan(na)

Student of Conflict

2xRonin

Vanessa

Freikorps Librarian

(don't know what upgrades my opponent used)

 

Strategy: Reckoning

Shemes I picked: Frame for Murder, Plant explosives (scored 2/3) My opponent picked the same and scored the same.

I'd appreciate any constructive advice on how to play against teh Victorias, without feeling utterly out of control. :)(I have been plaqying miniature games for over 20 years, so I know that some factions are hard to beat and frustrating at first, but after thinking about it for a long while and looking over their cards, I reallydon't see how in this case...)

 

 

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Well, you need some solid punch as you have none at the moment. Get Johan, Strongarm Suit and Lazarus (all 3 are easy to get as those are not part of crew boxes but stand alone models) and then you have a good melee output with very good shooting. If you can get Rusty Alyce somewhere get her as well and you can swap Lazarus/Strongarm with her if you want to.

Keep your models in the safety of Hamelin's no-charge zone so Viks won't charge you that easily. If possible Obey enemy models in the open  or use Obey on your shooters to Focus and shoot.

Use Rats to block enemy models so they won't interact that easy and do schemes.

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Thank you for the advice!

Unfortunately I forgot tomention that I chose HAmelin for the cool ratcatcher style and don't want to mix toomuch aside froma dding Lost models. The no charge zone was not all that helpful,, sadly, since Vic just teleported herself and her sisters into melee... which is why I feel my usual defenses are rather useless

 

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11 minutes ago, Steamage Dandy said:

Thank you for the advice!

Unfortunately I forgot tomention that I chose HAmelin for the cool ratcatcher style and don't want to mix toomuch aside froma dding Lost models.

It is gonna be hard for you to play with only 'thematic' crew. If you take Kade then use him as counter-attack model. Tarpit something with Rat and then charge engaged enemy. After that Hamelin should Obey Kade to make final swing if necessary.

Candy is not that good without an access to Fears Given Form and I wouldn't bother taking her.

Iggy might be interesting but again I would rather take something from Outcast family then him ;)

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The Viks are very much glass cannons that require careful positioniong to work best. 

Hamelin is a control box, that can disrupt their positioning, but doesn't have much that threatens to kill them. Thematically other than Kade, there isn't much in rats/lost that hit hard enough to scare away a Vik. 

You need to try and get several of his models blighted, then Johan can't remove from too many, and removing from 2 models in a turn means he isn't moving. Also if you can blight him, he can't get rid of it from himself. A survivalist Hamlin with a nearby hidden from the Viks Stolen (or probably 2) can really blunt their attacks.

His Obey is a huge range, and can be used to make them attack each other, which can really hurt the Viks if you can get it done at the right time.  If you have no big hitters, you just need to use their big hitters. It can also be made to move them away from their effects, so if he was planning on using Dragons flight, to bring all sisters within 6" in, then you can make sure they aren't in range with an obey. 

 

Its going to be much harder if you limit yourself to a very small pool but its not impossible at all. But you will need to plan carefully how to deal with what you face. And Reckoning is a very hard fight for Hemlin, due to his natural style of generating lots of very easy to kill models. In something like turf war you could play exactly the same lists and find it much easier going because you don't have much killing power, and reckoning does require killing power. 

You also seem to be struggling to reach the points value of the game, which isn't that surprising,  but will make life harder for you. If you had a few more models you probably wouldn't have needed to hire the rat catchers, and just made them in the first couple of turns, giving your crew some extra points to spend. 

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Thanks that was very helpful! I realise playing a thematic crew is less effective but I tend to choose fluff over effectiveness ;)  Afraid a rat shield is not much use in reckoning as its throwing free VP at my opponent. @Adran -what do you mean struggling to reach the point cost? And why not take ratcatchers? I think things will indeed get easier when I have the lost painted

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I know that you would like to keep as close to theme as possible, so I would suggest this. 

Hamelin is a Tyrant, bent on causing mayhem and destruction through his Plague. By corruption of those in his proximity, he gains more followers and so furthers his own agenda. This way your still in theme, but allows you to hire other models.

Hamelin is a great master, but certain schemes and strategies are more difficult to complete with his thematic crew. Not impossible, but it is an uphill struggle.

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drown them with rats!!!

maybe adding killjoy? a little conversion to make it look like there are no viscera but rats coming out of his belly?

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Part of the strength of Hamelin, is his ability to be able to recycle. Whilst you have 2 rat catchers on the table, you can't turn any of your rat kings into anything. But if you don't start with both of them you are able to turn injured rat kings into rat catchers. Most of the time I've played with/against Hamelin, he doesn't start off with Rat catchers and Rat kings on the board, because he plans to summon them in the first couple of turns. 

This normally helps his activation order, and has let him hire something else for that 12 ss. You may well play them differently, and not plan to do that, so its not such an issue, but you appear to have effectively everything you own in the list.  

The Rat shield can still work in reckoning, you just need to decide that you're going to concede those points anyway, and stop worrying about them. Because of your model pool, you will struggle to build a list that isn't going to get at least 2 models a turn killed even in games that aren't reckoning. At least with the shield you have some control over the models that get killed, and hopefully can restrict them to the less importnat ones. 

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Thanks folks! Very nice ideas with the fluff justifications/ conversion ideas :)

Thanks for clarifying Adran, I see your point. The Stolen are next on the painting agenda (after finishing a couple of minis for another game I am working on). I will give it a try then and see what happens...

 

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I don't know much about Hamelin, but I know the Viks don't like taking even small amounts of damage.  so they'll use a lot of SS to prevent damage - which is really annoying for frequent small hits.  Vik of blood (pokey Vik) is the one who will run in and do the damage, while Vik of Ash (shooty Vik) tends to stand back a little and buff her.

Viks like to activate late in the turn, unless there's a juicy target to hit.  So out activating definitely helps - you get to see what your opponent does with the Viks then make your move after that.

with Whirlwind, though, they get to demolish groups of models (free attack on everything within 3" if you hit a suit trigger).  but charging is your strength - you can use your rats to block off charging lines.  You probably can't stop the Viks from scoring 3 points for Reckoning - sometimes you have to accept that, and focus on denying their schemes or just trying to make sure that you score more points than them, rather than worrying too much about how many points they're scoring.  They're going to kill your models, so let them.  Use your rats to tie them up while you get on with scoring schemes.  Then use more rats to run in and whittle away at their low wounds. 

Even using terrain to avoid charges will help a lot.

 

With Student of Conflict, your opponent is considering a slingshot (movement tricks to massively extend the reach).  You can see this coming a mile off, so just block charging lanes.

 

Vanessa and Librarian means a lot of healing - so you want to do your damage after they're activated to avoid their healing.  You may want to try take those 2 down first.  It also means that your opponent is prepared to pump a lot of AP into simply keeping the Viks alive rather than running the schemes.  Ronin is nothing special but you just can't charge them.  Tie them up with something small - they have low melee.

 

Vanessa, being a sister, will heal whenever any of the Viks or the student heal.  Librarian may be good to take out first - and you should be able to take out the Ronin with a number of small hits.  Given that your opponent will score 3 points from Reckoning, you expect to score 3 from Frame for Murder, looking at minions will help you score strat points.  Who did you and your opponent place Frame for Murder on?

Frame for murder is good to take against the Viks.  Don't forget, staying alive is simply a tool that may help schemes/strats.  You can get tabled late in the game and still win :)

do you remember what other schemes were in the pool?

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Thanks for the advice! :)

I picked a ratcatcher, who went forward and started dropping sheme markers. Managed to get him killed by one of the vicks in the end. My opponent picked Vanessa, whom I obligingly killed with a lesser model. Next time that sheme is in the pool, I will try harder to obey one of his own to do the killing blows.

Other avilable shemes were distract and protect territory. I reckon once I got my Crooligans painted protect territory will become rather useful

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I wouldn't hire so many Ratcatchers to start with. One is plenty, and having two means you can't cycle your rat kings.

Having 5 rats to start off with also seems like a lot. You'd definitely be better off dialing that back and investing in a heavy beater (like Killjoy). The rats can be generated mid-game, other models cannot. 

Full upgrade load-out on Hamelin is tempting but super expensive, with that and a full cache you're playing 10-12 SS down, which is bad. I would prioritise the Piper (as it's stupidly better than all the others) and possibly take one more. If you are going to load him out fully I would go for more 1 SS upgrades, there are a lot of good generic ones in Outcasts.  

Hollow on Nix is expensive again (I've found) and the (1) charge is the best part but is situational, wheras Oathkeeper just gives you 1 AP for half the price. I've never been able to use the blast protection part of it either because it's awkward in terms of activation order and positioning (and is situational). You might want it if you are using 2/3 of the abilities (hiring hounds included) but if not it's a big ask. Oathkeeper + Scout the Field is a pretty awesome load out on Nix for 2 SS in my experience. You basically get 2 extra AP (assuming you wanted to walk him forward round 1) and being able to ignore LoS for the odd charge (through terrain) or Bleeding Disease can be quite good.  

Aside from that I'd say Reckoning is entirely doable with Hamelin, but it is not his forté. The Viks on the other hand excel at it, so you can take them on but it may always feel like an uphill struggle. 

On 7/5/2016 at 9:08 AM, daniello_s said:

Candy is not that good without an access to Fears Given Form and I wouldn't bother taking her.

Iggy might be interesting but again I would rather take something from Outcast family then him ;)

Not having Fears Given Form is a loss for her, but then again having access to Oathkeeper...

Candy is a decent option combined with Iggy. She get's a big engagement range and can lock-down and paralyze things. She's fighting with Hannah for that role and unsupported she's no competition, but if you have reason to take Iggy then she becomes a much more viable option.

Kade is oddly good in Hamelin lists, possibly more so than in Neverborn. He's still annoyingly squishy, but Hamelin can feed him stuff with Pipes and give him more AP (plus, there's Oathkeeper) and there are so many random bodies around that he'll often get to activate late and charge into an engagement. Whether he's better than something like a Convict Gunslinger is debatable (due to squishiness) but if you want to go the creepy kids route he can perform reasonably well.  

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