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Would you ever take Shen Long without Yu?


10T Simon
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WOULD I? I guess...it's never really occurred to me, to be honest. I'm sure a situation exists out there, somewhere, where Shenlong shouldn't take Yu, but I've never recognized it if it's come up.

We all know how amazing Yu is, but the simplest way to break him down for me is that you pay 11ss for him, and he is essentially just 2-3 extra Master AP per turn. Would I pay 11ss for my Master to have Fast and Swift for the whole game? Yes I would, pretty much always.

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Of course I would take Shenlong without Sensei Yu. Yu is awesome, but makes you too reliant on his presence on the table. Easy mode models like this are bad for a player's skill, so I avoid playing with him every game.
In addition, Shenlong is a support Master and Yu provides support as well. If you don't have enough other models that have strong presence in their respective roles or require more finesse (Thunders Archers come to mind) you might find that paying 15ss for Shenlong and Yu is a little bit too much.
This is my opinion and by no means do I mean to dissuade you from playing Yu, as I said he is awesome. Play however you like; if by experimenting you find out a playstyle that suits you Malifaux gets even better :)

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I think Yu's a very powerful piece just because of his ability to do Airburst into turn 1 scheme marker, which can be really good for many schemes since he gets that extra inch away from your deployment. In the few games I've managed to get with Shenlong (been on a Rezzer/Outcast spree since the beginning of the year), he also did semi ok with either tossing stuff around or throwing out 4 point heals.

Some people say he's a crutch but...other factions have "crutches" too and he's still useful regardless of what they say. About the only time I wouldn't take him is if everything played to combat. With an ok but not spectacular melee attack and lack of a Charge value, he's weaker there.

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19 minutes ago, Pyrflamme said:

Some people say he's a crutch but...other factions have "crutches" too and he's still useful regardless of what they say. About the only time I wouldn't take him is if everything played to combat. With an ok but not spectacular melee attack and lack of a Charge value, he's weaker there.

To be honest, having a strategy and scheme pool where everything plays towards combat is when I take out Lynch anyway. In general, I think that kind of pool plays too much away from Shenlong's strength and Lynch or Misaki are going to be better served.

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46 minutes ago, tomjoad said:

To be honest, having a strategy and scheme pool where everything plays towards combat is when I take out Lynch anyway. In general, I think that kind of pool plays too much away from Shenlong's strength and Lynch or Misaki are going to be better served.

I don't think a combat oriented scheme pool plays that far from Shen's strength.  Yes his biggest strength works great for marker oriented schemes, but being able to push hitters into charge range and give fast can be very useful for combat schemes.  Not to mention Fermented River Style is great!

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1 minute ago, Gort77 said:

I don't think a combat oriented scheme pool plays that far from Shen's strength.  Yes his biggest strength works great for marker oriented schemes, but being able to push hitters into charge range and give fast can be very useful for combat schemes.  Not to mention Fermented River Style is great!

Oh, I agree that Shenlong can do a lot to buff the beaters in his crew, and Fermented River Style does a lot to help Shenlong hit hard, but I consider both of those to be a back-up plan for him. Something I'll do often enough, but it's not the main way I expect to score and win. When I expect killing to be important to winning a game, I like to go with the guy who does it best.

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I play Shen without Yu a lot and it doesn't him being effective. It may be my play style but after a ridiculous amount of games with both Shen and Misaki (they're my 2 main Masters) I wouldn't consider Shen less killy than Misaki. There are only a handful of Strat and Scheme combos that would make me consider Misaki over Shen competitively, she requires me to tailor half my crew to her and can be a bit all or nothing. As already mentioned Shenlong amplifies his crew so if it's a killy crew it's more killy. I've seen Lynch on the table so much that I've used him much less myself, but he'd generally be better than Shen for killy games.

I like to use Toshiro, Shadow Emissary and Yu, sometimes Kang, all of which are expensive models that add a different element of support to a Shenlong crew. I'll field 1-2 of them and often a big beater so Yu's not always there. Without Yu I'm more focused with Shen, less cycling through the styles.

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After initiative flip, switch from wandering River to high river style. Peasant sacrifices himself to give Shenlong burning and focus. Sensei Yu pushes Shenlong 10" up the board and gives him fast. 

 

You now have a 4AP model with a 3" reach that causes blasts who is at least 16" up the board. At the end of massive killing, 0 action to switch to low river style. 

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Not bad.  Have you played this crew against Ressers before?  Do you find it harder to get by "HtW"? 

I don't know how I feel about sacrificing a Peasant on Turn 1 though.  Plus it would also mean I'd have to begin the game with both on the board, or run the risk of playing the rest of the game without them.

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Played against ressers a lot. There are always models around without hard to wound. Target them and launch your blasts from there. If it is just one model, switch to fermented river style and turn those into positives. 

 

You can always save Shenlong for turn two if you don't want to start with two peasants. I typically have Izamu and the Lone Swordsman (both with recalled training) to send up the board in similar fashion. 

 

Peasants are there to sacrifice or die for soulstones. It's only a bonus if they can hand out focus. After Shenlong is up the board, I run the other up so they can constantly reincarnate after initiative flip. 

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On 5/2/2016 at 11:33 AM, 10T Simon said:

Played my first Shen Long game yesterday now that I've got him painted up. Was a lot of fun!

I've been using Yu in quite a lot in other crews too.

I was wondering though - would you ever take Shen Long without Yu?

Yes. He's 11 points if you want to style swap. And there are so many better uses of points in a Shen Long crew. I *do* use Yu, but mostly in Yan Lo (where he can instill youth back on Yan and move key models around) and Misaki (because a 6 AP Misaki is absurd).

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18 hours ago, MinionJack said:

Played against ressers a lot. There are always models around without hard to wound. Target them and launch your blasts from there. If it is just one model, switch to fermented river style and turn those into positives. 

 

You can always save Shenlong for turn two if you don't want to start with two peasants. I typically have Izamu and the Lone Swordsman (both with recalled training) to send up the board in similar fashion. 

 

Peasants are there to sacrifice or die for soulstones. It's only a bonus if they can hand out focus. After Shenlong is up the board, I run the other up so they can constantly reincarnate after initiative flip. 

It's a very sound tactic.  I've just never considered him to be "tanky" though.  With a relatively low damage spread, he'd be great at taking out opposing minions and peons with his double blast on severe damage with High River Style.  I'd be reluctant to leave him out in the open without any help.  Maybe I'll put this to trial the next time I play him.

Thanks for the insight!

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If you are worried about retaliation, either switch to Low River Style or take the misdirection upgrade. 

 

But it in all reality, most models are dead by the time he gets through and he just needs to last until a fast Izamu/Lone Swordsman is slingshot up the board on the next turn. 

 

Or the opponent is so worried about Shenlong, turtling with Low River Style, that they  forget about Strats and Schemes while your crew runs around and wins the game. 

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On 4 May 2016 at 8:03 PM, Rurouni Benshin said:

Not bad.  Have you played this crew against Ressers before?  Do you find it harder to get by "HtW"? 

I don't know how I feel about sacrificing a Peasant on Turn 1 though.  Plus it would also mean I'd have to begin the game with both on the board, or run the risk of playing the rest of the game without them.

Rather than start with both on the board, powerful chi one in to play after initiative and sac the slow peasant that was summoned for a mastery and then do as you wish with Shen longs own zero action, be it a mastery or change in style.

 

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15 minutes ago, rvdbarnes said:

Rather than start with both on the board, powerful chi one in to play after initiative and sac the slow peasant that was summoned for a mastery and then do as you wish with Shen longs own zero action, be it a mastery or change in style.

 

But then the strategy MinionJack outlined doesn't work start of turn 1, which is where the concern was raised.

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47 minutes ago, rvdbarnes said:

Rather than start with both on the board, powerful chi one in to play after initiative and sac the slow peasant that was summoned for a mastery and then do as you wish with Shen longs own zero action, be it a mastery or change in style.

 

Think the sac action is (2).

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