Would you ever take Shen Long without Yu?

[MinionJack]

9 hours ago, Freman said:

Isn't the question more, "would you take any Ten Thunders Master without Sensei Yu?"?

Brewmaster doesn't need him and is over redundant in his crew list. 

[MrDeathTrout]

11 hours ago, Freman said:

Isn't the question more, "would you take any Ten Thunders Master without Sensei Yu?"?

I play Misaki, Lynch and McCabe.  The only master he's an auto include for me is Misaki.  Having two models stalked and a fast pushed Misaki it TOO good.  I did try him with Lynch for the first time last week and having a beckoner Lure Yu then pushing 4" is very nice.  I've just started with Shenlong and played about 4 games with him.  I've always take Yu with him, but if you are playing them both as support its almost too much support.  But from reading the forums I really haven't figured out how to use Shenlong very well yet.

[Rurouni Benshin]

1 hour ago, MrDeathTrout said:

I play Misaki, Lynch and McCabe.  The only master he's an auto include for me is Misaki.  Having two models stalked and a fast pushed Misaki it TOO good.  I did try him with Lynch for the first time last week and having a beckoner Lure Yu then pushing 4" is very nice.  I've just started with Shenlong and played about 4 games with him.  I've always take Yu with him, but if you are playing them both as support its almost too much support.  But from reading the forums I really haven't figured out how to use Shenlong very well yet.

After putting this to practice, I can say that Misdirection on him is a pretty good upgrade.  I had him with Low River Style, amidst a bunch of enemy models, with Defensive +1.  After a Punk Zombie tried flurrying on him, he ended up taking only 2 Wds, Misdirected onto a Guild Autopsy once, and gained an additional Defensive +1.  My opponent was left with only 1 card in his hand after starting with 6 at the beginning of that activation (he didn't suspect me cheating down for the attack to hit just to trigger Misdirection).  From that point, my opponent actively avoided him, since he didn't want to risk the Misdirection, or risk the losing the cards he had in his hand to negate it's effect.  Using Shenlong offensively takes practice, but it's also using the right style for the right moment.  When he's not activating, Low River Style on him is best.  When he's attacking, you want Fermented River or High River Style.  Wandering River Style is usually on Sensei Yu (for obvious reasons), but switch it onto him when he needs it. 

It was also in this game that I also learned how effective Airburst is pushing models off buildings is... Who needs Rotten Belles and Performers when you can just push them back off in the opposite direction.

[Tokapondora]

The only masters I struggle taking him with are Mei and Lucas, mainly because the 0 action from Wings is not really worth the Yu and Lucas gets so much more out of the Emissary. Though the occasional extra nimble and desperate gamble have been life savers whenever I got to use them. For Lynch he's an auto include because it generally leaves me with a perfect hand and a fast Lynch/Huggy halfway across the board. The slowness of the Ancestors paired with wanting to heal Yan once in a while makes me take him with Yan a lot as well. Misaki turns into faster Misaki. Shenlong lets you be even more shenlong, which never hurts. And finally Brewmaster I frankly love him with. The 6" push for Yu himself allows him to keep up with the team without having to take a walk, like, ever, and unleashing a fast Brewmaster on something that's been -'ed drains a hand faster than any opponent can keep up with. I know the Emissary fills up a similar niche to Yu, but since Im not too into proxxyïng I admittedly havent had too much opportunity to compare their uses against each other.

[Rurouni Benshin]

Haven't tried Brewmaster and Sensei Yu yet, but I'd wager he's great with him too.  Looks like I'm going to need more practice with Brewmaster now.

[MinionJack]

Brewmaster in TT plays way different than Gremlins. I really only ever use hangover and obey. Drinking contest is something you save for end game most of the time. 

 

In order for Sensei Yu to give out fast, he needs both the promising disciple and wandering River upgrades. At that point he becomes a 13SS support model. Not worth it in my opinion. 

[tomjoad]

1 hour ago, MinionJack said:

Brewmaster in TT plays way different than Gremlins. I really only ever use hangover and obey. Drinking contest is something you save for end game most of the time. 

 

In order for Sensei Yu to give out fast, he needs both the promising disciple and wandering River upgrades. At that point he becomes a 13SS support model. Not worth it in my opinion. 

With Wandering River Style he can Airburst something with his 1st AP, gain Focus from the built in trigger, then Mighty Gust something and have him use his Focus to give the target either Fast or Slow. Promising Disciple isn't required.

 

I agree that playing Brewie as a support/debuff master seems way better in 10T than trying to rely on Drinking Contest. Still, having Yu around can let you set up Drinking Contest when you need it without having to activate Brewmaster yet.

[MinionJack]

Your focus generated by Airburst would be used on casting mighty gust. Without promising disciple, you can't save the focus for the trigger. 

 

.... Edit.... Maybe I read wandering river incorrectly. 

[santaclaws01]

35 minutes ago, MinionJack said:

Your focus generated by Airburst would be used on casting mighty gust. Without promising disciple, you can't save the focus for the trigger. 

 

.... Edit.... Maybe I read wandering river incorrectly. 

Did you think he needs 2 focus to give fast or slow with Might Gust?

[Eclipse]

7 hours ago, MinionJack said:

Brewmaster in TT plays way different than Gremlins. I really only ever use hangover and obey. Drinking contest is something you save for end game most of the time. 

In order for Sensei Yu to give out fast, he needs both the promising disciple and wandering River upgrades. At that point he becomes a 13SS support model. Not worth it in my opinion. 

Sensei Yu does not need both upgrades, he can simply take the River style of his choice as those upgrades are 'Limited - Shenlong or Sensei Yu'. In addition, I don't even use Wandering River when running Yu with Brewmaster. Airburst is enough, since Yu gains two very important (0) actions - he can either give Poison+2 and push ahead or activate Drinking Contest. You will want him ahead on the front lines, while the Brewmaster buffs/debuffs from the back lines, giving Swill to stuff. For this reason, take Fermented River on Yu: With Swill he works the same as a Moon Shinobi, but can ignore df triggers and can use upgrades/ss. He will likely need some melee hits from Brewie and/or Fingers if you want to stack the Poison, but this can be a trap compared to developing your board presence. Finally, if you expect a lot of ranged attacks just take Smoke Bombs on him as well. With Fast from the Emissary (that Stumbles Around Drunk later) he can potentially skewer many models with all the - flips turned to + and the (0) actions. If you want to add to the hurt activate the Emissary (0) that allows you to deal two Poison damage per turn

[MinionJack]

9 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Did you think he needs 2 focus to give fast or slow with Might Gust?

I thought he didn't lowered the focus until the trigger phase. I stand corrected.

 

Outside of a Shenlong list, I still don't think I would have Wandering River Style on Sensei Yu. 

[MrDeathTrout]

1 hour ago, MinionJack said:

Outside of a Shenlong list, I still don't think I would have Wandering River Style on Sensei Yu. 

Really?  I have never taken any other upgrade on Yu when not with Shenlong.  Pushing and Fast-ing a killy model is SO good.  I do admit without other movement tricks he can't move the round he does that, but giving being able to give fast and 10" of push to Misaki, Huggy or Izamu is great.  I'm curious how you use him outside a Shenlong list and with what upgrades?

[MinionJack]

22 minutes ago, MrDeathTrout said:

Really?  I have never taken any other upgrade on Yu when not with Shenlong.  Pushing and Fast-ing a killy model is SO good.  I do admit without other movement tricks he can't move the round he does that, but giving being able to give fast and 10" of push to Misaki, Huggy or Izamu is great.  I'm curious how you use him outside a Shenlong list and with what upgrades?

I use him in my Lynch list with Low River Style. He airbursts models and heals when needed from the middle of the table. He also is able to complete schemes if he's not doing anything else. 

 

With Brewmaster, I don't use him at all. I don't use any of the other masters. Shenlong, Lynch, and Brewmaster cover all strats and schemes for me when playing as TT. 

[MrDeathTrout]

4 minutes ago, MinionJack said:

I use him in my Lynch list with Low River Style. He airbursts models and heals when needed from the middle of the table. He also is able to complete schemes if he's not doing anything else. 

 

With Brewmaster, I don't use him at all. I don't use any of the other masters. Shenlong, Lynch, and Brewmaster cover all strats and schemes for me when playing as TT. 

I can see that.  Condition removal and healing would be a great use for him as well, in certain crews.

[Rurouni Benshin]

2 hours ago, MinionJack said:

Outside of a Shenlong list, I still don't think I would have Wandering River Style on Sensei Yu. 

Try him with Wandering River Style with Misaki sometime.  It's actually pretty good.

[MinionJack]

19 minutes ago, Rurouni Benshin said:

Try him with Wandering River Style with Misaki sometime.  It's actually pretty good.

It seems that way.

But, as I try to get masters to diversify my play style, she does not do anything to my existing crews. 

If stuff needs to die: Lynch

If blasts are needed in plenty: Shenlong 

If I need to turtle and drop markers: Brewmaster 

 

[MrDeathTrout]

 

1 hour ago, Rurouni Benshin said:

Try him with Wandering River Style with Misaki sometime.  It's actually pretty good.

 

35 minutes ago, MinionJack said:

It seems that way.

But, as I try to get masters to diversify my play style, she does not do anything to my existing crews. 

 

I totally agree.  She's not nearly as flexible as the other masters.  She is fantastic at assassinating a key model (especially with Yu/Wandering River support), or killing a bunch of small stuff, but there are lots of models good at killing things.  She doesn't bring much else to the table.  She was my first master, I still play her once in a while for funsies, but for the most part I play McCabe, Lynch, and Shenlong who are a bit more flexible.

 

[Rurouni Benshin]

13 minutes ago, MrDeathTrout said:

I totally agree.  She's not nearly as flexible as the other masters.  She is fantastic at assassinating a key model (especially with Yu/Wandering River support), or killing a bunch of small stuff, but there are lots of models good at killing things.  She doesn't bring much else to the table.  She was my first master, I still play her once in a while for funsies, but for the most part I play McCabe, Lynch, and Shenlong who are a bit more flexible.

She was my first Master as well, back before GG made new schemes.  As much as I enjoyed playing her in TT, I think as an Outcast Master, she has better support.  Even without Sensei Yu helping, the support pieces Outcast has to offer play to my style of using her much better.  Biggest factors for me are the ability to consistently recycle soulstones with the Effigy, and having reliable healing with Freikorps Librarian (and sometimes Hannah). 

Oh yeah, and "I Pay Better" is ridiculously good.