Tips for a noobie with Von Schill?

[Armond]

So I picked up Von Schill box along with some other goodies including the Male Multi-Part kit(I can probably build another Freikorpsmen/Trapper/Librarian with it if I do it right.

I was wondering if anyone had any tips or tricks they recommend? I have been reading up on what I can. My resources are a bit limited where I am, and I have no way to throw down and flip cards where I am right now either. But I am excited to give this guy and his crew a go when I get home from the desert.

So essentially:

Von Schill

Hannah

Vanessa

Johan

Freikorps Strongarm

2 x Librarian (additional built with a kit)

2 x Trapper (additional built with a kit)

Freikorps Specialist

Steam Trunk

3 x Freikorpsmenn (additional built with a kit)

I love the look of the models and the theme with it. Playstyle-wise the core of it all seems to be pretty easy to grasp and Von Schill is a nasty little bundle of steel. He has a great physical presence in the sense that he can mete out damage and absorb it as well. The fact that his mobility at a glance are kind of average disguises the hidden gem that is being able to charge while engaged. The lack of Casting seems to be able to be mitigated with the presence of say Hannah and/or Vanessa.  So it all seems awesome from what I have read. Anyway, thoughts?  Maybe a progressive list suggestion?  Sorry if this seems all so noob-like.  I looked for a tactica for Von Schill, didn't see one!

[Freman]

Lazarus is a good addition, and gives Vanessa someone to push around. Von Schill with survivalist is very tough, although keeping a Librarian around to heal him is a good thing.

The Steam Trunk can be very useful.

I like to keep my Trappers together, and shoot the same target if necessary.

Freikorpsmen don't get a lot of table time, as I tend to rely on Trappers, or Von Schill himself, as scheme runners.

Hannah benefits from having a selection of Ca abilities to copy.

Johan is always a good choice.

Remember that Von Schill can cast "finish the cur" on himself, so if he knocks a model down to its last two wounds use the command on himself to finish it off.

[Armond]

23 minutes ago, Freman said:

Lazarus is a good addition, and gives Vanessa someone to push around. Von Schill with survivalist is very tough, although keeping a Librarian around to heal him is a good thing.

The Steam Trunk can be very useful.

I like to keep my Trappers together, and shoot the same target if necessary.

Freikorpsmen don't get a lot of table time, as I tend to rely on Trappers, or Von Schill himself, as scheme runners.

Hannah benefits from having a selection of Ca abilities to copy.

Johan is always a good choice.

Remember that Von Schill can cast "finish the cur" on himself, so if he knocks a model down to its last two wounds use the command on himself to finish it off.

Those are some awesome tips.  I love the idea of Lazarus tossing 'nades downrange and wreaking havoc on bundled up troops.  This would be especially true if I can push him into to position and use all his AP towards that. 

Are trappers that awesome to where they make the standard Freikorpsmen not all that desirable? 

[Freman]

With "from the shadows" you can deploy Trappers close to where you need the markers and drop them from the second turn.

Freikorpsmen aren't bad, it's just they drop off the bottom of the list once you've bought two Trappers, a Librarian, Lazarus,  Hannah, the Steam Trunk and a few upgrades.

And yes the Trappers are pretty awesome.

[KaosDrake]

I like the Mann as a generalist, with all the pros and cons that this implies.  RtFG and a cheap ram in hand can make their damage output pretty respectable, both at a range and in melee.  The Hunting Knife has a really solid Ml6 and a potential Duck & Weave trigger.  Wk5 Unimpeded is always nice, making it feel kinda' like a Void Wretch with more teeth.  By being less afraid of combat, I get the feeling that Manns can take better advantage of the Von Schill bubble than Trappers, who decidedly do not want to be in a close fight at all.

I take both with Von Schill pretty regularly, but I favor Trappers more in Reconnoiter and Manns more in Turf War.

[Armond]

13 hours ago, Freman said:

With "from the shadows" you can deploy Trappers close to where you need the markers and drop them from the second turn.

Freikorpsmen aren't bad, it's just they drop off the bottom of the list once you've bought two Trappers, a Librarian, Lazarus,  Hannah, the Steam Trunk and a few upgrades.

And yes the Trappers are pretty awesome.

Ah yes, point limits and all that jazz.  Makes sense.  I will have to look at making some various lists at various SS allowances and see how it works.

4 hours ago, KaosDrake said:

I like the Mann as a generalist, with all the pros and cons that this implies.  RtFG and a cheap ram in hand can make their damage output pretty respectable, both at a range and in melee.  The Hunting Knife has a really solid Ml6 and a potential Duck & Weave trigger.  Wk5 Unimpeded is always nice, making it feel kinda' like a Void Wretch with more teeth.  By being less afraid of combat, I get the feeling that Manns can take better advantage of the Von Schill bubble than Trappers, who decidedly do not want to be in a close fight at all.

I take both with Von Schill pretty regularly, but I favor Trappers more in Reconnoiter and Manns more in Turf War.

Those are some very good points.  The use of the bubble for Von Schill would be best utilized by the Mann as opposed to the Trapper due to deployment/positioning.  I guess what it will come down to is plenty of play-testing to figure out what style suits me.  I am going to assume a trapper(they seem to be a bargain and are rightfully feared on the board) will be used in my list, but beyond one, I am not so sure on how many I will need.

[CapnBloodbeard]

With the trapper, be careful of deploying him too far upfield - he'll be targeted and taken out fairly quickly.  conversely though, with 'from the shadows' and a walk of 5 he can actually make a pretty decent scheme runner.  But don't hold vS back just to buff the trapper.

Augmented Jump is amazing.  Don't forget you can charge a model and land behind the model (if you have the range).  Even if you're already engaged with a model, charge it again to reposition yourself.  Don't forget about 'finish the cur' either.

These days I have the librarian hide out of trouble a bit but try to keep up with vS to heal him - though that can be tough with her low range.  The shirt comes off is a great upgrade.

I don't often use his 3AP 'attack everything in sigh' ability, but it can be handy occasionally.

I like to play vS fairly aggressively, and use a few SS on keeping him alive as well.  Had a game I mentioned on here a while ago where he managed to withstand 30+ AP worth of consecutive attacks in much hilarity

[Armond]

45 minutes ago, CapnBloodbeard said:

With the trapper, be careful of deploying him too far upfield - he'll be targeted and taken out fairly quickly.  conversely though, with 'from the shadows' and a walk of 5 he can actually make a pretty decent scheme runner.  But don't hold vS back just to buff the trapper.

Augmented Jump is amazing.  Don't forget you can charge a model and land behind the model (if you have the range).  Even if you're already engaged with a model, charge it again to reposition yourself.  Don't forget about 'finish the cur' either.

These days I have the librarian hide out of trouble a bit but try to keep up with vS to heal him - though that can be tough with her low range.  The shirt comes off is a great upgrade.

I don't often use his 3AP 'attack everything in sigh' ability, but it can be handy occasionally.

I like to play vS fairly aggressively, and use a few SS on keeping him alive as well.  Had a game I mentioned on here a while ago where he managed to withstand 30+ AP worth of consecutive attacks in much hilarity

The trapper would probably need to be deployed in position to give him a way out.  I don't believe holding vS back would be my intent, seeing as the trapper seems to be more of a lone wolf-type of model. 

I love that whole jumping around and charging.  I can see it almost like in an action movie.  That charge nets a reposition and a 2 x (1) combat action, so why not. 

The Shirt Comes Off has been in my eyes the whole time.  Too useful to not include.  I will have to figure out via play experience the best formation/unit dispersion to run everyone at.  I need the Librarian able to be in range of vS at critical moments, but obviously he is not going to need the librarian at every turn.

That 3 AP attack ability seems uber situational at best.  I would have to already be in position to pull it off methinks.  I twould probably take me throwing myself in the middle of the foray the turn before, and activating good old vS once the next turn starts, 

The fact that vS is built like a rock only makes me feel more confident in his ability to survive.  Combine that with SS and a clutch hand, you got yourself the very likelihood of an immovable object.  At least for one turn.

[CapnBloodbeard]

with the 3AP attack, usually you'll just be better of focussing your attacks.  But in the middle of a Gremlin horde or some such it could be awesome.

I also use survivalist on him - because I just can't accept vS not being Hard to Kill

[Armond]

Ya, I can see the beauty in that.  What would be a good way of giving vS an extra AP?  Wasn't it Fast that can do that?  If so, anything known to gel well with vS and grant some of that goodness?

[CapnBloodbeard]

Oathkeeper!!!

[Armond]

Why thank you!  So The Shirt Comes Off and Oathkeeper? 

[CapnBloodbeard]

Always survivalist and shirt comes off for me (survivalist also gives + to healing flip, so matches well with shirt off and librarian healing flips).  Oathkeeper...sometimes.  it is handy being able to do 2 augmented jumps though.......

[Armond]

24 minutes ago, CapnBloodbeard said:

Always survivalist and shirt comes off for me (survivalist also gives + to healing flip, so matches well with shirt off and librarian healing flips).  Oathkeeper...sometimes.  it is handy being able to do 2 augmented jumps though.......

Ah, the vets pass the knowledge and the novices soak it all up.  Makes perfectly good sense.  I am just hoping I can figure out the best configuration(equipment and crew-wise) in a relatively acceptable amount of time.  But of course this is going to require me to get some games in.  Of course I have to get back from the deployment, and get my stuff put together to run some games.  I can always crunch numbers and whatnot to figure things out. 

 

[Armond]

Ok, so I just widened the pool of models available to me for when I get to hit the field with vS.  Specifically I have also added Sue, Hodgepodge Effigy, Aionus, and Hans to my order.  I just like having a variety at my fingertips.  I will probably be just using the box set first with a single stand-in of the Strongarm Suit.

So model-wise I have the following now coming in:

Von Schill

Hannah

Vanessa

Johan

Lazarus

Sue

Hoedgepodge Effigy

Aionus

Freikorps Strongarm

2 x Librarian (additional built with a kit)

2 x Trapper (additional built with a kit)

Freikorps Specialist

Steam Trunk

3 x Freikorpsmenn (additional built with a kit)

I think that all of those models combined should do a reasonable job of giving me variety and options when playing in non-hardcore tournaments(in the future maybe) and to allow me to tailor after observing the board. 

[CapnBloodbeard]

I don't like Vanessa.  She's too squishy, doesn't do enough damage, and her heal is 2AP vs the librarian's 1AP.  She has some positives - looking at the top 3 cards can be good, half the time it doesn't help you though

Casting is great if you're against a lot of incorporeal...but again, just take a librarian and get the benefits of the Friekorps buffing.

Strongarm is great if you want something that's fairly hard to kill or if you want that Augmented jump again.  I quite like him, though I wish his damage output was a bit higher.

Specialist.....I rarely use him.  He's just too slow and expensive.  Some people love him.

I don't have any of the others (except the freikorpsmenn, of course)

[Mikey_C]

5 hours ago, CapnBloodbeard said:

Strongarm is great if you want something that's fairly hard to kill or if you want that Augmented jump again.  I quite like him, though I wish his damage output was a bit higher.

You know he's got a zero action for that right? it brings him to 3/5/7 in melee which is pretty huge.

I think the Strongarm is one of the most overlooked models in the game.

[dalleron]

Agreed.  Strong arm is boss.  Dare I say better than VS?!  At least punching holes in things,.....at least things that don't have armour

[Mikey_C]

3 minutes ago, dalleron said:

Agreed.  Strong arm is boss.  Dare I say better than VS?!  At least punching holes in things,.....at least things that don't have armour

He's got a trigger for that!
I know it is not reliable but in 2 consecutive games I charged Lazarus hoping to just tie him down in melee, and wrecked Laz in one go (using Oath keeper).

Those melee triggers can be huge when you hit them. 

 

[BigStick]

The Strongarm is amazing and for me is an auto include, never had a bad game with him even when I've made mistakes. Has v Trapper, I always end up choosing the trapper. He gets the job done and for 2ss less, and I feel the Trapper has more versatile. I would also advise caution when deploying the trapper. I know it's tempting to push his right up but I've found that he just becomes a massive target (and rightly so). I hold him back a bit which has resulted in him surviving much longer and dealing out more damage with his focused shots. 

RegardiRegarding VS upgrades I've found survivalist and shirt comes off being a great combo and in most of mafter lists, after that it is flavour/set up/opponent that can determine other upgrades. Hard and relentless is great in the right games. Also fire at will + Rusty Alyce can result in summoning an abomination every turn. Can be a bit card hunger but a pain for your opponent to deal with.

[Armond]

All this talk of the Strongarm has got me amped up to get him.  Everything I have read just screams "field me, field me!"  I am pretty sure once I am able to throw some models on the table the experience will definitely prove him to be a beast.

So in regards to vS and the Strongarm Suit, are they extremely complimentary?  Or do they just do something very similar and so essentially doubling melee capability?  I know good old vS has the aura, so that is definitely a compliment, but does the Strongarm contribute any support-type abilities, or is he a full steam ahead pound 'em monster?

All this trapper talk is also in line with things I have read.  His low SS cost with the kind of abilities he has seems to be a bargain.  I understand about overextending, although it may take a few games of practice to understand how to deploy and not just single myself out for extermination. 

[BigStick]

Strongarm complements VS quite well. VS is a great generalist but can be a little low on damage output, the Strongarm is great for picking up on the damage output. I generally look at Strongarm like a mini VS and when they work in a team it can be devastating. VS can lower opponent's Df and Strongarm can bypass damage reduction like armour. I've destroyed 2 Teddy's in a single turn with jut these two guys. When using them as a team I usually activate Strongarm first and then VS as his finish the cure can really come in handy. Especially when you augment jump strongarm into a position where you can kill one model and still be in range of another weakened (1-2 wounds left) then have VS give finish the cure to Strongarm to kill another model.

[Armond]

Wow, two Teddy's?!  That is awesome!  I understand that is probably an anomaly, but still impressive.  VS and his "Finish the Cur" is definitely a nice one.  I like that he can use it on himself as well.  I am thinking Von Schill, Strongarm, Freikorpsmen, Librarian, and a Trapper for my initial go.  Not sure on the SoulStone cost because I don't have any resources right in front of me since I am at my place of work.  I can get to this page, but not really much else in terms of applications.

[Munindk]

Here's a great online crew builder: http://bythetree.net/

[Armond]

Thanks, I tried it, but it is not accessible where I am haha

I will have to wait till I get off work and access it or something similar.  I am honestly excited to get back to my room and play a bit with the numbers to see what I can come up with.

 

I brought some modeling materials with me, and am awaiting my order to arrive so I can put it all together and take a long hard look at the cards and see if I can figure things out.  I have been wargaming since about 1992, so none of this is foreign.  I just need to figure Malifaux out.  I played a single game to try it out, and I enjoyed that flip mechanic as well as the smaller number of models needed to play.