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Torokage out of Ten Thunders

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I was just wondering if people use the Torokage as Mercenaries - I've only ever seen them used either in 10 Thunders lists or in Outcast Last Blossom lists. I've no experience with them but when I inevitably get 10 Thunders (come on Wyrd! :P) I'll get them but wondering if people use them as mercs and if so how/when?

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Like RarerMonsters said, paying an extra point for an already mediocre figure?   Nope.
I feel like in 10 Thunders, the only reason people use them is because they *Really* want to use ninjas, not because they're particularly good at anything.
I'm having trouble imagining a scenario where a faction's own models wouldn't be a better choice than Torakage at that points cost.

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Unless you need something very specific, I never find the merc tax worth paying on lower cost models, since most factions have an equivalent piece without the tax.

Johan is very cheap for a decent beater and condition removal. Trappers are just strong snipers where not all factions have native snipers. Performers have their poison shenanigans (if that's what you're doing) + lure.

I don't think there are any other mercs (that I'll pay the extra SS for) that are cheaper than the 10 range that I consider even semi-regularly when building a list (though I'm curious about Burt in Outcasts). If I field mercs, it's typically to get something very specific and expensive, where the tax is proportionally less of their cost.

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I'd add Malifaux child for the cheapies, but as a totem he's of course more Master dependent than most models.

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On 4/29/2016 at 1:16 PM, RarerMonsters said:

I mean, they're not fantastic in 10t so I can't see them being good at 1ss more expensive.

I do not understand why everyone says Torakage are are not that good...maybe its my meta, or maybe its that im not interested in tournaments but i find Torakage to just as good as any other mid point minion in 10T.

As for being worth it with the 1SS merc tax, i agree with SpiralngCadavr.  Though, if you REALLY want to bring some ninjas into your non-10T list i guess you could try them, though i don't think i would ever bring more then 1 at 7SS.

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From a 10T perspective I would take a Thunder Brother 98 times out of 100 instead of a torakage and save a stone.  Torakage require a certain level of finesse to use to potential and I would rather focus my attention on other parts of the game then to worry about precision placing a model or have more conditions to watch in my activation order.  I don't think they are bad because they tend to do good on accident but there are pieces that do whatever you hired the torakage to do better. 

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The only exception is the card intensive shadow step for certain schemes but you need Misaki, Yamaziko, or Ototo and then we completely left the premise of this thread which is it a viable merc.

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On 4/29/2016 at 10:32 AM, SpiralngCadavr said:

If I field mercs, it's typically to get something very specific and expensive, where the tax is proportionally less of their cost.

I kind of want to address this, because it's faulty reasoning.

People say that it makes more sense to hire expensive mercs because the tax is proportionally lower, but that is really just an illusory profit.

If you hire Taelor vs hiring a Performer, you're paying 1 stone to take a mercenary. That is the same cost to your list. Beyond that, it's no different than the choice between taking Izamu vs taking a 10T brother. You aren't getting a better deal by taking Taelor, you're just paying for a more expensive model.

The correct evaluation is of the Number of Mercs you're taking, if your list can afford 1 it is the same deal no matter which model that is.

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I'd disagree. When I take mercs, I'm comparing them to non-mercs.

I'm generally not going to pay 6ss for a 5ss friekorpsmann because there are better choices for that 6ss slot native, since you're paying 1ss for the opportunity to use something and it's basically just a well-rounded fighter and unless the FK is underpriced: it'd be comparing it to models that would cost me 1ss less than I'm paying (native faction 5ss options) or comparing it to models the designers balanced at 1ss more than it (6ss in faction options). I might pay the extra soulstone on an out of faction performer because it's a role that's much harder to fill.

I don't go into a list thinking "I'll set aside 1ss for a merc, now I should decide which model is worth spending a ss for the opportunity to take out of its native faction."

I go in thinking "I want a piece to fill X role for around y cost. Are there mercs to consider? Are there native faction models to consider? If both, is whatever the merc does worth spending a ss for the opportunity to take it and/or do I want both if there are rare caps and I want to spam that?"

 

Yes, the ss is spent either way, but there is a proportional tax if you're comparing pieces to other pieces.

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I don't think the proportionality is important, I just compare the actual hire cost of the mercenary with whatever in faction model I would hire instead. E.g. I don't think I pay an outrages extra 50% when hiring Malifaux Child to get the extra Master cast, I'm just hiring a 3 SS totem. It follows that I wouldn't ever hire a Freikoprsmann as a mercenary if I can get a model that does an equivalent job in faction for cheaper (which I most likely can as he doesn't do anything unique). A Performer on the other hand can be worth 6 SS as both the ranged scheme marker destruction and the expunge are rare abilities that are not available at all in every faction.

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If a Performer is worth 5ss, you're overpaying by 20% if you hire it as a merc. If Lazarus is worth 10ss, hiring him as a merc is only a 10% overpay. There might be times when the Performer is just what you need, so you pay it, and that's fine, but merc hiring is clearly more efficient on the higher end than the lower.

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