If you could change three things...

[Jordon]

Stealing this from a thread started in the guild forum that I found quite interesting.

If you could pick three models from our faction and change them. What would they be? Keep yourself honest and pick not only boost's but also cuddles 

1) December Acolyte - He basically invalidates any other shooter at his price range. He could either be increased to 8ss or simply change his gun to a 2/3/5 with auto slow and a non built in trigger for maim. 

2) Metal Gamin - I really wish protection of metal was less restrictive. I would either make it a simple aura that effects all models within range - or make it a condition that lasts until the end of the turn like how the guilds guardian "protects" 

3) Myranda - She probably shouldn't have been able to turn into a beast that costs more than she does. It basically means we'll never get a high cost beast model in our faction simply because she breaks it.

[bertmac]

1. People to stop suggesting mech rider for every crew when someone asks "what should I buy next?", yes it's very good but takes other models/purchases to work and I like the idea of learning without it!

 

2. Metal gamin, the cuddle was ok but protection of metal is so situational now as to be useless so something to make it better, either making it a 0 action so they can keep up with what they are protecting or making it until the end of turn/next activation!

 

3. Rail golem. +1ml and make locomotion a higher tn. This would make it less swingy which is probably the thing that annoys people the most ala gremlins!

[Adran]

I would remove the bonus damage done on the locomotion trigger for the Golem. Thats what really makes it swingy. 

[bertmac]

1 hour ago, Adran said:

I would remove the bonus damage done on the locomotion trigger for the Golem. Thats what really makes it swingy

I think without the bonus damage it drops even further behind howard langston though.

[Bengt]

The bonus damage on Locomotion is the only thing that makes the Rail Golem competitive. If you make locomotion harder or remove the bonus damage he is just terrible compared to Howard. If you up his Ml and damage track to compensate he just becomes Howard, and while I guess some wouldn't mind Howard being Rare 2 I think it's boring.

[Bengt]

I think an interesting change for the Rail Golem would be to let him lower burning to gain  to his next Ca duel. Perhaps combined with an adjustment to the Locomotion Tn and/or damage bonus. It would make his performance more controllable since getting burning is more about spending AP as opposed the sheer luck of hoarding tomes.

[Bengt]

I don't really like how Oxfordian Mages work. Resonance and Warding Runes are build around taking three of them, which is a lot of SS and then we have the discard for Furious casting. If I use them now it's a single one with the upgrade that gives + to Elemental Bolt, making the rest of the cards just dead trees. Not sure how to fix them and keep them thematic.

[brdparker]

I'd love to see the mages have other limited upgrades. All the better if one of them allowed for card draw or adding a tome to other academics.

And at the risk of sounding like a broken record, Marcus doesn't have enough variety. I would love a third limited for the guy as well

[Griffin839]

1. I would like to see oxfordian mages 1ss cheaper. They are very squishy and often don't stick around long enough to do their auras. Being less expensive would off set this.

2. Eternal flame. Replace its ability to place pyre markers with an ability to push pyre markers. Would open a whole new dimension of play to kaeris and the eternal flame would see more use. Pyre marker bowling!

3. Errata on ironside's adrenaline ability. Make the automatic heal ability a Once per turn (0) action ability. That way she can actually start stacking it early. As is adrenaline is too easy to negate and even taking the emissary doesn't help as adrenaline ticks down every turn. If they properly deny you, she will never have more than 1 a turn.

[valhallan42nd]

1. Imbued Energies should require a "killed or sacrificed by enemy action." AKA Stop the cheaper Cerberus and 4 cards engine, because that's just ridiculous.

 

 

[retnab]

7 hours ago, Griffin839 said:

3. Errata on ironside's adrenaline ability. Make the automatic heal ability a Once per turn (0) action ability. That way she can actually start stacking it early. As is adrenaline is too easy to negate and even taking the emissary doesn't help as adrenaline ticks down every turn. If they properly deny you, she will never have more than 1 a turn.

Or even just make it so the Adrenaline doesn't go down if she's already on full health.  Feels a bit awkward having to remove 1 from a crucial condition every turn.

[Griffin839]

Or maybe even start her with adrenaline. Like give her 2 at the start of game. That way she gets into combat turn 2 with 1, 2 if you brought the arcane emissary. 2 adrenaline won't make her crazy but it is enough of a starting point to allow her to actually use the abilities on her card turns 4+

[Bengt]

I think the main problem with Ironsides' Adrenalin is that it cost resources and/or the opponents cooperation to build it. And as you need a ton of it do any exiting combo the fact that one goes away each turn becomes minor. So remove the discard from Protective, remove the from Warm up, remove Adrenalin from Good Shot, My Turn and "other" from Protective so she still needs a suit to hit back but get adrenaline whenever she takes damage. And finally give her Resilient or some other defensive ability, while she have a decent amount of wounds they melt away pretty quickly with Df 5 being her only actual protection. With Resilient she have to get stuck in to get the benefit.

This significantly boosts her brawler style so some of it should perhaps be exclusive (through limited upgrades) with her supportive stuff, but I think at least some of it should be on her card from the start.

[Griffin839]

I'd take any of these ideas. I love ironsides but the people I play against know to spread out so I can't  get massive amounts of adrenaline. At this point all she really brings to my crew is hand picked men which while awesome, is pretty meh for a master. I understand if wyrd was afraid of making her a 10 hit combo wielding death god like mei feng in 1st edition, but in a world of ratjoy, papa boxing, Lilith being able to look at the top 10 cards and keep 7 etc, it's really not going to hurt things that bad to give her a better boost.

[Hunt.er]

1. Hard to Kill back on the Metal Gamin.

2. A kind of restriction on the Mechanical Rider, that makes summoning the Metal Gamin less attractive.

3. ...

[Jordon]

I'm a little surprised no one has mentioned the ice golem. Ive personally gotten him to work, but it usually required the assistance of snowstorm to teleport him into battle.

Otherwise I find Df2 is not properly compensated with his armor and wounds, he just gets plinked to death most times I take him. I honestly feel like he could be bumped up to 12 Wds since he's basically always going to be hit in combat. 

*Oh and also Marcus being able to alpha masters can lead to a loss of friends... It should have probably been non-master.

[Nexus]

I agree on the Ice Golem.
Something needs to be done to improve his survivability.   For a tanky critter, he sure can be dropped easily.
I think he'd be fine at Defense 3 or 4 (still below average) at his points cost, armor, and wounds.   Or increase his wounds.   Or keep the low Defense and give him Armor 3.
Something, anything, lol.

I'd cap Myranda's shapeshift at beasts costing 9 Soulstones or less.  (or maybe 10 if feeling generous). 
But cap it somehow so we can get bigger beasts in the future without Myranda automatically breaking them.

My third thing is more of a model request.   I'd like to see alternate Wind Gamin come in a translucent plastic, since fire and ice already do, and wind definitely makes sense being translucent.   Keep the elemental theme going.


 

[Griffin839]

The Ice Golem is something argued about at my Local Game Store a lot, and I am the only Arcanist Player in my area who takes them, so Im pretty passionate to their defense. Sorry if this is long.

In regards to the Ice Golem and Rail Golem for that matter, I think Arcanist players are spoiled and a bit Jaded because of how almost-overpowered Howard Langston became in 2E. In Howard you have a melee monster with a high damage spread, nimble, flurry, and a built in defensive mechanisms in Terrifying and Steam Cloud. He's Self-Sufficient, and can roam the board on his own doing what he does. The trade-off for this is he is deceptively fragile. 11 wounds melt like butter when then enemy focus fires on 1 model and armor 1 isnt going to save him from heavy hitters. He is a high speed glass cannon that will die almost immediately to the counterattack if the slightest mistake in positioning is made.  Think of Howard as a Scalpel. Very effective in small areas but you need to be cautious about how he is applied.

The Golems on the other hand are Giant Sledgehammers. Slow, Clumbersome, but tough, strong, and once you get going, practically unstoppable. They can and will table the opponent if given the opportunity. To balance this they were made easy to hit. Slow+Easy to hit allows opponents a fighting chance at either running away or shooting down the giant before it gets the chance to start whacking away. If this was all there is to it, then I would share your sentiments on how they need to be buffed. But Arcanists are a faction designed around constructs and I feel their balance took this into account.

For example, when I play Ramos and mobility is less of a concern I leave Langston at home and take the Ice Golem. I take a metal gamin and put protection of metal on him. Now he's Defense 6. I take Ramos with Under Pressure and Field Generator and use him as a buffbot for the first half of the game. Now my Ice Golem is Df6 with positive flips to Df duels and gets positive flips on his attacks. Finally, if I want to make him even more resilient, I take Armor of December on him and use his first AP for Guarded Advance giving him another Armor +1 condition. A 3 inch push is just shy of his 4 inch walk so its not that bad a trade-off for the extra armor. Now hes essentially armor 3 as well. Since I normally take a metal gamin and Under Pressure and Field generator Anyways with Ramos, I actually came out a SS cheaper for a model who is now arguably better than Langston and more Likely to stick around.

That said, I don't believe Ice Golems aren't supposed to survive when played with Raspy. They are kamikaze's charging into groups of enemies, dealing a bunch of damage, and then explode finishing everything off. If you want to get the most of an Ice Golem in a raspy crew, equip it with Kill Switch and then charge into the enemy. Normal Damage spread, plus melee expert, plus 4 damage to everything in 2 inches when it dies. Imbued Energies does just as well, trading the extra damage for more cards. In either case you are trying to use your Golem to weaken the enemy so Raspy's blasts can finish them off easier. He can most certainly do this.

 

[Jordon]

1 hour ago, Griffin839 said:

I take a metal gamin and put protection of metal on him. Now he's Defense 6. I take Ramos with Under Pressure and Field Generator and use him as a buffbot for the first half of the game. Now my Ice Golem is Df6 with positive flips to Df duels and gets positive flips on his attacks. Finally, if I want to make him even more resilient, I take Armor of December on him and use his first AP for Guarded Advance giving him another Armor +1 condition. A 3 inch push is just shy of his 4 inch walk so its not that bad a trade-off for the extra armor. Now hes essentially armor 3 as well. Since I normally take a metal gamin and Under Pressure and Field generator Anyways with Ramos, I actually came out a SS cheaper for a model who is now arguably better than Langston and more Likely to stick around.

But you also have to factor in the increased cost associated with that. Yes having the metal gamin protecting the golem does give him an incredible boost in survivability, but you also have to factor in the 4ss increase. At 14ss you can make a lot scarier more efficient models than this. Not to mention how frustrating actually keeping something protected actually is since neither model can move far away from each other. 

I do think the ice golem has some great things going for him. I think his Icy Talon damage is probably a little underpowered with it's 3/3/6 track for a model as expensive as the golem, but it's compensated with melee expert and a very nifty built in trigger for slow. I've never once seen the use of his other trigger as it has never had any sort of relevance in any game i've used it in so far. Smash is incredible if you can survive long enough to use it and is enough of a threat to the opponent to entice killing it early on. 

I just think Df2 is just a deal breaker. Ask anyone who plays with the nothing beast and they will say the same thing. It takes no effort to hit it so even Ml/Sh4 models can add up some big damage rather quickly. You compare him to Joss at the same cost who is just so much more survivable with 3 extra Df, H2K, and the ability to use soulstones and arguably similar in damage output (sort of depends on the model your facing). 

I don't think many people would say the Rail Golem is overly survivable, but that extra 2Df he has over the Ice Golem makes a huge difference in my opinion. Just look at Izamu who is nearly identical with his armor +2 and melee expert and even has a better damage track (with a built in positive to damage flips) with longer reach and at least has Df4. I think at 10ss there is no comparison in my mind who i'd rather be taking.

[Griffin839]

Well like I said I always take the metal gamin in a Ramos list anyway. It's already there. So I don't feel it's cost should be included. I didn't take it to make the golem good, I took it as a utility piece that also helps make the golem good. I don't feel that a model should be considered more expensive for benefiting from list synergy. 

[daniello_s]

On 4/29/2016 at 8:53 PM, valhallan42nd said:

1. Imbued Energies should require a "killed or sacrificed by enemy action." AKA Stop the cheaper Cerberus and 4 cards engine, because that's just ridiculous.

 

 

That should have Rare 1 limit. Just like Oathkeeper...

[Bengt]

Some model (can't remember which) has a defensive trigger that lets armour reduce damage to 0 for that attack, I think that would be in character for the Ice Golem.

[katadder]

relying on protection of metal with its 3" range is severely limiting your ice golem, one lure or push (on either golem or gamin) and he's back down to df2

I do like them for throwing models down the field but with all the other options at 10SS in arcanist this df2 behemoth is one of the worst. now I have the models I will almost always use blessed of december or emmisary with raspy upgrade over an ice golem.

[Sybarite]

52 minutes ago, Bengt said:

Some model (can't remember which) has a defensive trigger that lets armour reduce damage to 0 for that attack, I think that would be in character for the Ice Golem.

Molemen

[Breng77]

I've used the ice golem a few times and found him best with Colette because prompt + the upgrade for a push and armor is a strong interaction.  It gives mobility to the golem and can get him to armor 3 or 4 easily (push 12" and gain +2 armor) this lets him use smash fairly easily.  Or push him up and bounce spells off him with a silent one.  That said the blessed with the same upgrade is probably better with df 6, htw, and then armor 2.