JB11 Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 On 25/05/2016 at 8:44 PM, 7thSquirrel said: Does anyone know why games continue to make bases in mm's, but we play in inches? Seriously, this has always bothered me. The world's largest and most stubborn market. The other markets don't use it natively, but don't really mind as it's on their tape measures and they can handle it. Seriously, the US obsession with imperial (or standard as they like to refer to it) units borders on ridiculous. The "an inch is more useful/easier to visualise than a centimetre" is my favourite. No it's simply that you grew up with the inch and it's easier for you to visualise. For the rest of us it's 2.5cm (I can visualise a centimetre, and 2.5 times as big is pretty easy to deal with). The only advantage (and this is pretty esoteric) advantage to inches/feet is that they work on base 12 which is a far superior base than 10. However the issues with integrating base 10 with base 12 and the lack of consistency in the base across other imperial units makes this moot. In the years I spent teaching maths to US college students we just did the metric questions from the text books and skipped the imperial ones. So much easier - particularly if you ever have to consider force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tawg Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 On 5/25/2016 at 6:09 AM, MagicGis said: Dude no jokes about people not being familiar with the fine details of your heavily outdated measurement system... metric won the war... accept it. Doesn't outdated imply that it has somehow stopped fulfilling it's useful role? Just because it is widely not used outside of America does not mean it is worthless. That's like saying that languages from smaller nations should be retired because the world has larger populations that speak different languages. Besides, don't they teach you that if everyone is jumping off a bridge, you don't simply do so as well. 23 hours ago, Griffin839 said: Telling an American to accept anything is pretty much futile. Telling anyone to simply accept something should not be the end of line. Explaining why or how they are wrong, on the other hand, could see such resolution. 23 minutes ago, JB11 said: Seriously, the US obsession with imperial (or standard as they like to refer to it) units borders on ridiculous. The "an inch is more useful/easier to visualise than a centimetre" is my favourite. No it's simply that you grew up with the inch and it's easier for you to visualise. For the rest of us it's 2.5cm (I can visualise a centimetre, and 2.5 times as big is pretty easy to deal with). I'd hardly say I'm obsessed with it. But as you say, it's the working metric by which things are expressed. Being contrarian and expressing things in Metric isn't going to help anyone. But I could certainly see Metric being useful for many fields, and that being plenty of reason to learn it as a second (or first) nature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JB11 Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 Just now, Tawg said: I'd hardly say I'm obsessed with it. But as you say, it's the working metric by which things are expressed. Being contrarian and expressing things in Metric isn't going to help anyone. But I could certainly see Metric being useful for many fields, and that being plenty of reason to learn it as a second (or first) nature. From a technical perspective the metric system is far superior. The scientific development to define the metric system in terms of fundamental physical properties is allowing a precision of measurement that couldn't even be imagined when the imperial units were conceived. That the imperial units are now defined in terms of metric units should be enough to highlight how archaic these measures are. From an ease of use, the metric system is also far superior: the common prefixes make conversion between metric units rely only on knowing half a dozen common prefixes coupled with simple multiplications. While conversions between imperial units require you to remember the conversions and a working knowledge of your 12 and 16 times tables. As for contrarian, there are 7 billion people hurtling around on this rock, about 350m have the imperial system as their standard. The remaining 6.7 billion have adopted the metric system. In the particular country that retains the imperial system the scientific community as a rule has transitioned to the metric system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kadeton Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 As much as I enjoy talking about systems of measurement, this isn't the place to do it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertmac Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 Only real problem is that they mix the two. Having two minions with 1" engagement ranges alternately flipping a squatters rights marker which is 30mm wide is a little silly. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 3 hours ago, bertmac said: Only real problem is that they mix the two. Having two minions with 1" engagement ranges alternately flipping a squatters rights marker which is 30mm wide is a little silly. 1.) That only happens if both players allow it to. 2.) Why is that silly? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bengt Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 3 hours ago, bertmac said: Only real problem is that they mix the two. Having two minions with 1" engagement ranges alternately flipping a squatters rights marker which is 30mm wide is a little silly. Why would that happen more than once (the turn they move into base contact)? Next turn one can flip it and then walk into engagement with the other model. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomezilla Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 I got curious and made a diagram. It IS possible to move the two 30mm base models to be engaging one another while both are also engaging the far edge of the 30mm squat marker, but just barely. In fact, it's so close that I want to review it in a drawing program with more precise measurement tools than Paint. Anyone have 30mm/1" aura templates to try this out in real life? (related: note to self: cut out 50mm/4" felt or paper template for "not Rise Up under my favorite construct, again" ) 5 hours ago, JB11 said: The only advantage (and this is pretty esoteric) advantage to inches/feet is that they work on base 12 which is a far superior base than 10. However the issues with integrating base 10 with base 12 and the lack of consistency in the base across other imperial units makes this moot.... You've forgotten US coinage is also 'imperial' in the sense that we have 25-cents* coins and not 20-cent*. We Americans like dividing every commonly used number by four instead of by five. Mind you, now I'm wondering whether people raised in metric had a harder time learning how to express the sub-divisions of the hour, or whether the expression "a quarter-hour" is even used all that often in metric countries. (Beyond that, there's the various interpretations of "half X hour" in various languages. I. Have. Forsaken. That. Phrase.) *not a typo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
retnab Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 Thing is, 30mm is not equal to 1", it's closer to 1.2" so two models on opposite sides of the marker with 1" melee ranges each actually won't be engaging each other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebarbalag Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 10 minutes ago, retnab said: Thing is, 30mm is not equal to 1", it's closer to 1.2" so two models on opposite sides of the marker with 1" melee ranges each actually won't be engaging each other. Sure, but models can totally stand on markers... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
decker_cky Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 16 minutes ago, retnab said: Thing is, 30mm is not equal to 1", it's closer to 1.2" so two models on opposite sides of the marker with 1" melee ranges each actually won't be engaging each other. And that is not anywhere close to being an issue.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnomezilla Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 (edited) 19 minutes ago, retnab said: Thing is, 30mm is not equal to 1", it's closer to 1.2" so two models on opposite sides of the marker with 1" melee ranges each actually won't be engaging each other. That's what I tested. I moved them just a little bit closer than directly opposite one another. 8 minutes ago, thebarbalag said: Sure, but models can totally stand on markers... I thought all scheme and strategy markers at start of game were now Ht 5 impassable so that you cannot do that any more. Edited May 26, 2016 by Gnomezilla the concepts for defining terrain are easy but picking the right word still is not Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebarbalag Posted May 26, 2016 Report Share Posted May 26, 2016 15 minutes ago, Gnomezilla said: That's what I tested. I moved them just a little bit closer than directly opposite one another. I thought all scheme and strategy markers at start of game were now Ht 5 impassable so that you cannot do that any more. I don't believe so. Last I checked Scheme and Squat Markers are Ht 0 Open. Edit: Just double checked. From Pg. 56 of the little rule book - (Unless otherwise stated) Markers have no Ht, do not count as terrain, models can move over and stop on Markers, and Markers are ignored for movement purposes. Scheme Markers are not called out as being special in this regard. Neither are Squat or Claim Markers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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