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Aaron

April 25 - Rules Manual

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Great idea. The starter set allowed you to obtain the rule-book for free (with one different picture in it, as previously noted), which is the thing that got me hooked. Now I can simply tell my friends "If you think you might be interested, check the rules out...don't cost nuttin'"

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9 hours ago, MrDeathTrout said:

I'd love to see Wyrd make all of the stats for models available for free as well.  A slimmed down version of each of the books with just the stat cards, or even better a PDF with all of the models for a faction (dual faction models would be in both PDFs) would be FANTASTIC!  Make it easy for folks to see the stats for the models they are considering buying, I assume Wyrd makes most of its profit from Malifaux from models, not books.  Based on my experience those people who like books and/or want to read the fluff (e.g. me) will buy the books, and those who just want to look at the stats before buying will look at a book on the shelf of the FLGS for bum off a friend instead of putting down the $40 for book they only use to check stats.

If someone is interested in getting into the game and wants to know what they need to get started I tell them something like "The rulebook costs $15 (now I'll add you can get it for free) and a starter set cost $35-$45, but if you want to see the stats you have to spend $40 on this book.  There are more stats in these two books at $45 each"  I don't need to tell them about the three big books, but if feels dishonest not to at least tell them they are the only "official" way to see the stats on a model before they buy it.

I'd much rather say "A starter set cost $35-$45 and a rule book cost $15 or you can download it.  All the stats for mini's on-line.  These three $40-45 books are nice and have all the fluff, but you don't need to them to play."

The second has a much lower barrier to entry.  And once you get the hooked...

I hope this message isn't too off base for this thread, but its been on my mind for a while and this seems like a good time to bring it up.  Also I'm not a business owner and I know the folks at Wyrd know a lot more about running a game company than I do, I trust you guys to make the right call for Malifaux.

Thanks

As an idea for players(especially for new ones) that seems great, but as a business practice it would be horrible. Sure many people would use them and proxy models from other games like Warmachine, but most would likely just quit after few tries or keep using proxies which is money off from Wyrd. It gives slight commitment to get that box along with the stat cards and now that the rules are free the leap to make is much shorter.
But each faction getting their own "Codex" type book with all models for that faction and some new stories would be nice, something extra to read deeper into your favourite faction.

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No thanks, I'd hate for there to be codex type books. Just keep putting out all in one books. The best thing about that is you don't need to go and buy every other factions book to know what they have. If you own the big books, you own everything.

There's still barriers of entry with free rules, like indecision due to the unknown. People have the rules, but they have no clue what they mean or how they work since they don't also know how models work. There's not much Wyrd can do to remedy that without committing free profiles. Perhaps releasing one of the basic minion profiles per faction as a sampler? Terror Tots, a Gamin type, Bayou Gremlins, etc. That would let people proxy a few games with basic minions before moving on to deciding if they want to play. However, that may also need some more detailed analysis of the factions on the main website, rather than being sent to pullmyfinger.

Not saying it wasn't a good move releasing the rules for free. People might get curious enough to grab a few models and give the game a try. But for a lot of people, they need more than the rules to be tempted to make the leap.

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2 hours ago, -Loki- said:

No thanks, I'd hate for there to be codex type books. Just keep putting out all in one books. The best thing about that is you don't need to go and buy every other factions book to know what they have. If you own the big books, you own everything.

I mean it only as book with everything about a specific faction instead of going through three(soon four) books to see what they have, single book is easier to carry than three and not everyone has the stat cards in their pocket when you want to look something up.

All major things would of course be the same but just something small, like story about how MC Mourning acts as a guild master in the line of duty or how Brewmaster and Som'er compete on moonshine production. Gamewise there would not be anything new or revolutionary, just a book with all of factions characters, stats and upgrades.

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58 minutes ago, GamerCr0w said:

I mean it only as book with everything about a specific faction instead of going through three(soon four) books to see what they have, single book is easier to carry than three and not everyone has the stat cards in their pocket when you want to look something up.

All major things would of course be the same but just something small, like story about how MC Mourning acts as a guild master in the line of duty or how Brewmaster and Som'er compete on moonshine production. Gamewise there would not be anything new or revolutionary, just a book with all of factions characters, stats and upgrades.

But it would be outdated in a years time, when they released more models for that faction. 

I don't think the army book route works with the Wyrd product release. All factions gain new things at the same time, and a 5 page update to your book is not going to be popular for people to buy. 

+ Mercs and out of faction hiring

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5 hours ago, GamerCr0w said:

As an idea for players(especially for new ones) that seems great, but as a business practice it would be horrible. Sure many people would use them and proxy models from other games like Warmachine, but most would likely just quit after few tries or keep using proxies which is money off from Wyrd. It gives slight commitment to get that box along with the stat cards and now that the rules are free the leap to make is much shorter.
But each faction getting their own "Codex" type book with all models for that faction and some new stories would be nice, something extra to read deeper into your favourite faction.

People buy the Wyrd models because they like them, if they don't like a particular model they'll use a proxy from another company regardless. The cards are already fairly easy to access, photocopied from the books (your own or a friend's) and PoD. Having the cards downloadable for free would, in my opinion, have no impact on model sales. It would perhaps have a noticeable effect on book sales and PoD cards.

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Quote

 Sure many people would use them and proxy models from other games like Warmachine, but most would likely just quit after few tries or keep using proxies which is money off from Wyrd.

Let's say I have little interest in Wyrd initially, but get the book and some statcards. I play a game or two, and decide  I don't like it. Wyrd lost nothing, as I would not buy the game otherwise anyway. Now, assume I liked the game, but decided to play with whatever proxies...again, Wyrd lost nothing, because I was NOT willing to buy the models in the first place. Now, assume I liked the game, and the aesthetics- I will then buy models, so Wyrd actually gets money from a customer which otherwise would not get into the game. 

 

Essentially, you're not selling to people who would not buy anyway, but you're selling to people who were on the fence.

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10 minutes ago, Poko said:

Let's say I have little interest in Wyrd initially, but get the book and some statcards. I play a game or two, and decide  I don't like it. Wyrd lost nothing, as I would not buy the game otherwise anyway. Now, assume I liked the game, but decided to play with whatever proxies...again, Wyrd lost nothing, because I was NOT willing to buy the models in the first place. Now, assume I liked the game, and the aesthetics- I will then buy models, so Wyrd actually gets money from a customer which otherwise would not get into the game. 

 

Essentially, you're not selling to people who would not buy anyway, but you're selling to people who were on the fence.

Don't know how it works in other places, but in my local club / city we have Henchman for that. He has crews you can play and can explain game to you. Don't need to read book and proxy models

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"What's a henchman" is a snarky answer, but more realistically, there's far fewer Henchmen than places, and even if, some people just want to test things for themselves ,not rely on demos by others. Either way, it doesn't invalidate anything  I just said- people who play with proxies would not buy into Malifaux anyway, so no profit is lost if they play with proxies.

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9 hours ago, GamerCr0w said:

As an idea for players(especially for new ones) that seems great, but as a business practice it would be horrible. Sure many people would use them and proxy models from other games like Warmachine, but most would likely just quit after few tries or keep using proxies which is money off from Wyrd. It gives slight commitment to get that box along with the stat cards and now that the rules are free the leap to make is much shorter.
But each faction getting their own "Codex" type book with all models for that faction and some new stories would be nice, something extra to read deeper into your favourite faction.

I don't think this crowd is going to make Wyrd much money either way.  They are not going to but a model because that is the only way to get the stat card.  PoD cards are available, my group could by one book and we all photocopy the stats we need. etc.  If you really don't want to buy the models there are plenty of ways around that.

This paragraph is based heavily on assumptions.  Where Wyrd makes their money from Malifaux is from selling models.  Selling rules is nice, but I'd guess it is a very small percentage of the profits.  By my best estimate I've spent about $1600 on Malifaux, $145 of that was on books.  I've started a Malifaux group at my FLGS and have 6 new players (as in never played Malifaux before I introduced them to the game).  I don't know how much they have spent on Malifaux.  When I was looking for a game to play I watched YouTube videos and read the rules for Malifaux (free download at the time), Warmachine/Hordes (don't remember where I got a hold of these) and Infinity (free download).  If I had not been able to download the rules for Malifaux and read them I might have went with one of the other games.  If I never bought a rule book (assuming everything I needed was a free PDF) I think this would still be a win for Wyrd.  My thought is lower the barrier to entry as much a possible, to get that first boxed set in their hands.

I don't like the idea of going to a codex format.  Leave all the books exactly like they are, just add a free PDF download with the stats for models.  One PDF per faction would be best IMHO.  Make is easy for me to see what Ten Thunder Brothers do so I can see I want models. :)

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2 hours ago, Jafar said:

Don't know how it works in other places, but in my local club / city we have Henchman for that. He has crews you can play and can explain game to you. Don't need to read book and proxy models

According to Wyrd's website there are 2 henchmen in the state of WA, not everyone is lucky enough to have one nearby.  Even once you're past that stage when someone asks me what they need go get started if I can say "a fate deck and a boxed set, about $50-60 for both."  That is an easy decision for anyone who is genuinely interested.  If I then say "There are these three other books (soon to be four) with all the stats.  Without them you can't see what a model can do before you buy it.  They cost about $120 (I'm guessing about $160 soon)."  That is a bit off putting.  I've had more than one demo go well and die at this point.

Wyrd, don't get me wrong.  I've very happy with what you've done so far, making the rules manual free is great.  You've lowered the barrier to entry a great deal.  I'm pushing for the barrier as low as possible.  I makes good business sense to me, but I you guys are the experts not me.  Thanks for putting out such a good product.  Malifaux is head and shoulders above any other mini game IMHO. :) 

 

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You people have made your point, it didn't change my opinion but I get where you are coming from.


But I wonder if the character featured in free manual is a mercenary? For some reason it also rings to me as Blacksheep.

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6 hours ago, Buntman said:

Amazing news! After taking a look at the new art, I think I definitely need a McCabe team)

Sidir's blue bother? lol

I wonder if there is any fluff on where Sidir is from, or like, any connections he has outside of the obvious McCabe ones, that could be interesting to learn about?

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2 hours ago, Tawg said:

Sidir's blue bother? lol

I wonder if there is any fluff on where Sidir is from, or like, any connections he has outside of the obvious McCabe ones, that could be interesting to learn about?

Yes, that would be interesting to know. 

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I think a better thing than having the stat cards book would be a paid mobile app that has all the model card rules in it along with a crew creator. I`d easily pay 10-15 USD for that and I own all the current books and would still buy the new ones.

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2 hours ago, Eclipse said:

New people can start Malifaux easier as the rules are free? Oh, jolly! :P

You're just jealous you don't suck as hard as me.

7 hours ago, trikk said:

I think a better thing than having the stat cards book would be a paid mobile app that has all the model card rules in it along with a crew creator. I`d easily pay 10-15 USD for that and I own all the current books and would still buy the new ones.

Yeah, I think everyone agrees that mobile apps enhance things.  Just look at Warmahordes, which includes damage tracking and everything, it removes a lot of the fussing about tracking information for players with a smart phone or tablets.

Although they charge way more than 10-15$.  It's like 5-7$ for all the stats of a single faction, and I think you can bundle all of either Hordes or Warmachine into one purchase for like 25-30, and then both games completely for around 45-50 or something?

Granted if you're only interested in one faction, it is only like 7$ to get all the use you need out of the App.

So it's fairly pricey for the convenience of everything, but it includes all completely new releases as they come out, and all that jazz.  So I imagine a lot of Warmahorde players who own the complete app don't necessarily buy into the new books?  Although I prefer having books to go through rather than an app, especially when showing something off to new players.

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6 minutes ago, Nathan Caroland said:

We're currently developing said app. Maybe by Gencon, likely after. I'm sure we'll call upon testers at some point.

giphy.gif

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I'd love an app like that. Wouldn't stop me buying the books, as I like the fluff and art. One of the best things for Infinity is Mayanet, which is similar. Builds a list, then in 'game' mode has direct links into the official wiki for everything and tracks casualties. Can even work for two lists at the same time. Makes the game so much more convenient to play.

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On 4/26/2016 at 5:14 AM, Adran said:

But it would be outdated in a years time, when they released more models for that faction. 

I don't think the army book route works with the Wyrd product release. All factions gain new things at the same time, and a 5 page update to your book is not going to be popular for people to buy. 

+ Mercs and out of faction hiring

It works for Warmachine which releases things in a similar manner to Wyrd.

When they switched from 1st to 2nd, they released a big core book with roughly 1/3 to 1/2 the models from all factions as well and arsenal decks of their own (different name though) for each faction to upgrade players to the new edition. This is exactly the same thing Wyrd did.

However they also released soft and hard back versions of books for each faction. They release an expansion each year that adds to all the factions. Yes, those books that launched at the start no longer contain absolutely everything, however they still sell because they are a great resource for people interested in those factions. When 3rd edition drops in a couple months, they seem set to start the process anew with the faction books now containing everything added in the expansions since their release.

Now this does not automatically mean that this will work for Wyrd. But Warmachine proves that such a way of releasing things does not invalidate it.

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6 hours ago, -Loki- said:

I'd love an app like that. Wouldn't stop me buying the books, as I like the fluff and art. One of the best things for Infinity is Mayanet, which is similar. Builds a list, then in 'game' mode has direct links into the official wiki for everything and tracks casualties. Can even work for two lists at the same time. Makes the game so much more convenient to play.

MayaNet is the biggest advantage of having an iPad over any other tablet at this point, just like having Malifaux Crew Creator is the biggest advantage of an android phone over iPhone for me.

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