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Zoraida need crew list help

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i bought Zoraida, aaand many people say i should take her outta the "swamp"  but i dont know what to buy except i know i will need a nurse :P any suggestions would be greatly appreciated ^^

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Buy all the toys.

Just because everyone says it.

Basically any unit with a useful (1) action is good with her. I'd say a Nurse (because everyone who can should take a Nurse) and a Samurai (for the Obey shootiness) are good options.

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Zoraida typically is a force multiplier. She takes what ever you have and makes it that little bit better. For a lot of her tricks it doesn't matter what you take, but anything hat likes extra AP is good. things with good 1 actions are nice, as are things wiht good 2 actions, because its much easier to Flurry if Zoraida has already got you into the right place. 

Doesn't really help you with the what to buy, but I'd consider looking at some more beater models. (they have a good obvious use for extra AP, and the box already comes with one of the fastest models in the game for scheme running.)

Although She is a neverborn master so primordial magic and Doppleganger are good considerations. Even if you want Zoraida to summon in the voodoo doll part way through, you can use the primordial magic as a scheme marker to score before that. (depending on how you use your doll).

 

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Big Z loves Nurses, Candy, Dopplegangers, Trappers, Hooded Rider and the swamp fiends can be a lot of fun too just has to be the right set up. Nothing wrong with taking McTavish, 2 Walds, 2 Silurids and Bad Juju to beat things up.

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One of the best things about her is she works well with everything by making it faster with obey or dance puppet or by allowing it kick out another attack she can help card hungry models theough crystal ball and bewitch or give it extra survivability by obeying it go into a defensive stance allowing it to use its own ap for attacks or to not activate and still keep its manipulate, mimics blessing etc.  so it is mostly a case of take what you personally like the look and feel of.

That said I always take Iggy with her the damage he can kick out in combination with the voodoo doll is massive and on top of that his throw a fit can be a big bonus when obeying. Finally incite is often as good as winning priority and if you get priority anyway through luck or a Doppleganger you can get two significant models activated while your opponent just watches a preys

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What I find the most amusing with Zoraida is the ability to make crack crews with whack synergy. Usually this means taking the Nurse and pairing her with Ama no Zako for the Devour when you Paralyze something, or with Ototo for extra shenanigans on an already hefty beatstick. Other times it means taking a Samurai to be Obeyed and copied by the Doppelganger... So it comes down to: What do you prefer to play? What do you need to include in your crew? With Ototo for example I would take Waldgeists for the soft cover and to cover even more ground. You might want a ranged attacker in your crew as well. Also, the Doppelganger and Widow Weaver are always great additions to any Neverborn crew, even more so. The Voodoo Doll is a construct that you can beat up to draw cards from and then summon a Wicked Doll out of the scrap marker... Fun stuff to be done.

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She works with most models. Rather, she works with almost anything. Thus she can tailor her crews very well for any strategy and scheme. Wp debuffs like Insidious Madness and Widow weaver are pretty good with her, Nurses are pretty nice addition to Neverborn, Iggy is stellar for more burning on the voodoo doll as well as Incite (that action can win you games), Hooded Rider is a great beater, Mysterious Effigy is a great 4ss minion with a stellar stat line, the Emissary actually looks pretty cool for her, Doppelganger is one of the best models in the game and is a great addition to Z's adaptive playstyle, and she can Obey Tots to run for their lives! 

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Don't forget  that the swamp suits her well and has loads of hidden tricks. It's a lot of fun. More fun imo. 

On the voodoo doll: I'm convinced that iggy is the best option for abusing the doll. Nurse is great and has utility elsewhere as well, but it's so easy to take a model of your choice of the board per turn with iggy doing 12dg via the doll. Plus he's going to be sold separately for cheapness. 

Sorrow is fine and requires no cards to paralyse, nurse is better,  but iggy is best imo. 

Animal shape all the way. Crystal ball is great and all, but u don't need it if u are bewitching a 3ap model or two every turn. There is so much use for animal shape.  

Out of the swamp consider the rider. Stubborn. Zoraida may be wp 10, but the rest of her crew are usually very poor wp and once her crew is taken out she is struggling a little. (Of course there is always the opponents crew to control.) I like the Mature Nephalim as an out of swamp beater for movement control and very hitty and keeps up with animal shape.  Plus if u have the swampfiends they go well with Lilith. 

For me the minimalist shopping list is Zoraida box, Waldgeists, iggy.  

Then add gators. 

 

Whatever u choose she is loads of fun. 

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I like the Widow Weaver for doll abuse.  Exhale Terror forces a horror duel on the target after damaging, and if you target the Voodoo Doll with it you can cheat in a low card to auto fail, paralyzing the hemmed model.  On top of that, the Widow's Inhale Terror ability means she'll draw a card.  And on top of that, the doll is a construct, so it leaves a scrap marker when it dies, which the Widow can use to make Wicked Dolls, who have a lot of synergy with Zoraida as well.  And finally there's the Web markers that just make all your Willpower based abilities so much easier.

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7 hours ago, Clockwork_Fish said:

I like the Widow Weaver for doll abuse.  Exhale Terror forces a horror duel on the target after damaging, and if you target the Voodoo Doll with it you can cheat in a low card to auto fail, paralyzing the hemmed model.  On top of that, the Widow's Inhale Terror ability means she'll draw a card.  And on top of that, the doll is a construct, so it leaves a scrap marker when it dies, which the Widow can use to make Wicked Dolls, who have a lot of synergy with Zoraida as well.  And finally there's the Web markers that just make all your Willpower based abilities so much easier.

Piggy-backing slightly on this I am interested In Zoraida and her swampfiend's, I have enjoyed reading and it seems like she could be a good Master for a multitude of schemes - I really like the idea of messing up your opponents plans so it seems Neverborn might be the faction for me - Clockwork_Fish -  I would be interested to see what your average 50ss crew would include?

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I've been recently been running her with Lelu and Lilitu. Hemming them and using the nurse to give them funky things, or Zoraida to obey.

The last game I ran

Zoraida with Tarot Reading, Doppleganger, Lelu, Lilitu, Nurse, Tuco a terror Tot and a Silurid.

First turn, move everything towards the centre of the board, apart from Tuco (whos there already) and Zoraida. Then bring out the voodoo doll hemming Lelu. Then the doll just sits at the back focusing or going defensive.

The next turn start with Zoraida, obey Lilitu to use her 1 action to give both her and Lelu positive flips. Then activate Lelu to do his 0 action of pushing and giving him and Lilitu pounce. Then use Lilitu (and the doppleganger) to start luring things into the pounce range.

Later when you don't need to use lure as much then use the nurse to give the twins +2 damage (and only do melee attacks).

It can be pretty brutal luring things in to a minimum 4 damage dealing 'free' attack. You can also use the likes of Tuco, Barbaros or the mature nephelim to push models into the pounce trap.

 

the only thing to watch out for is Exhaust their forces and Tag and release. Can be a bit of a bugger.

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On ‎9‎.‎5‎.‎2016 at 10:31 AM, feagaur said:

I've been recently been running her with Lelu and Lilitu. Hemming them and using the nurse to give them funky things, or Zoraida to obey.

The last game I ran

Zoraida with Tarot Reading, Doppleganger, Lelu, Lilitu, Nurse, Tuco a terror Tot and a Silurid.

First turn, move everything towards the centre of the board, apart from Tuco (whos there already) and Zoraida. Then bring out the voodoo doll hemming Lelu. Then the doll just sits at the back focusing or going defensive.

I was really excited by this and wondering why I hadn't thought of Hemming my own guys but unfortunately Hem's wording makes this sort of thing impossible since both uses specify "enemy Voodoo Doll". It would still allow the positive twists to Obey Actions and Dance, Puppet Interact-for-a-Push but I don't think it's worth it just for those to Hem your own models.

Unless I'm somehow thinking this whole thing wrong, of course.

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3 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I was really excited by this and wondering why I hadn't thought of Hemming my own guys but unfortunately Hem's wording makes this sort of thing impossible since both uses specify "enemy Voodoo Doll". It would still allow the positive twists to Obey Actions and Dance, Puppet Interact-for-a-Push but I don't think it's worth it just for those to Hem your own models.

Unless I'm somehow thinking this whole thing wrong, of course.

I think you're right. I have had use from hemming my own guys though, I've hemmed my own models so I can push them out of engagement to remove distracted. I agree it's pretty niche though, especially since you're giving up a master AP for the push.

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Yeah, hemming your own model is only good if you want to do something gimmicky (like get an Insidious Madness into the enemy deployment zone turn 1) or if your opponent is doing a really good job of hiding and the Doll has nothing else to do on its activation/when summoned. In the first case it's awfully resource intensive but can accomplish some quite surprising things, in the second it's just slightly better than hemming nothing until an enemy comes into range. 

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I find the positive flips to ca actions against them helps (wanna get those obeys off without cheating). Plus the move means the twins can concentrate on luring and pouncing.

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On 2016-05-09 at 3:15 AM, Ressummon said:

Piggy-backing slightly on this I am interested In Zoraida and her swampfiend's, I have enjoyed reading and it seems like she could be a good Master for a multitude of schemes - I really like the idea of messing up your opponents plans so it seems Neverborn might be the faction for me - Clockwork_Fish -  I would be interested to see what your average 50ss crew would include?

I either run swampfiend heavy or doll heavy.  In the former, it's Bad Juju, maybe Spawn Mother, and fill the rest with waldgeists, silurids and gators to taste.  In the latter, it's the Widow, Teddy, and couple Wicked Dolls or Stitched together.  I tend not to use Iggy, but it's more a thematic choice than a tactical one.  I usually try to paralyze my Voodoo Doll more than I try to kill it.

The sheer number of cards Zoraida can draw up means she runs Stitched Together quite effectively, and I'm less worried about them failing Gamble Your Life.  They also scare the bejeezus out of most players.  I'm also looking forward to trying Bunraku from Shifting Loyalties.

Spawn Mother gets a bad rap, but I like using her to turn gators into little ballistic missiles.  You can also team her up with a Wicked Doll to help out with her Mother's Rage attacks.  The gator's death roll is also an option for use on the Voodoo Doll, since it has a decent damage track and paralyze.

And finally there's poor Tuco, the best Frame for Murder option in the faction.  He's a nice first turn Obey target.

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Ran her w/Crystal Back, Hex Bag, On Wings of Darkness, 2 Gupps, 2 Waldgeists, Bad Juju w/Eternal Fiend, Hooded Rider w/Retributions Eye the other night vs Colette in Guard the Stash. Traded Juju for Joss early on, but that left my opponent very hesitant to kill anything at all, and even more hesitant to commit Colette, with the threat of Retribution's Eye on a model that was swinging for min 5.

I like the idea of Iggy or a Nurse for Hem, but I don't like leaning on Hem at all (or Bewitch, which is why I often take Crystal Ball, as I like to feel like I have the option to activate Z late in the turn).

She's pretty brutal, regardless of the list in things like Turf War/Extraction/Guard the Stash, with Repulsive and the ability to force models out of position/bring friendlies back into position with Obey. Waldgeists amp that control up pretty severely with 4" reach and Armor +2. The Rider also finds his way into a lot of lists with her, and he gets a lot of movement out of Obey, and his minimum damage, especially ignoring Armor, makes using Master AP to get the extra attack feel very worth it. Matures are nice to, if you trust your deck to give you some Tomes (Bewitch can help) for Charge Through.

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I just picked up the Zoraida crew and a box of Waldgeists.  Excited to get them all in and paint them up!  Should be a great time! This thread just makes me even more excited and anxious to see them arrive!

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She is super fun, and super cool. My first master, and I'll always love her, but just to be clear:

In terms of winning games, she is no Dreamer, Lilith or Pandora. Those 3 are in a different league entirely. Pandora can reliably paralyze masters. Lilith moves models unlike anyone (even Colette). And Dreamer brings incredible summons, mobility and support (all the incorporeal wk 7 and pushing stuff is crazy fast).

That out of the way, I'll talk about what I think works for my favorite master:

-IME, McTavish, Iggy, and Doppelganger are her superstars, hands down.

-Once you have McTavish, it's really, really hard to avoid Waldgeists. They are so awesome for so many reasons, but when you add in their off-the-chain synergy with our favorite gator-master, they become must takes, I think. Only reason to leave them at home is if you go the Gremlin + Rooster route.

-Lilitu makes so many of my NBorn lists. With Doppel to copy and Zoraida's obey, your lure options become enormous.

-Johan is always important to have on hand for NBorn. Plus, his offense is on par with 10 point models, so if he does get into the fight, he's a beautiful Obey target.

-All our scheme runners fit nicely. Silurid/Gupps give you more McTavish friends (each + to hit matters a lot when you're going to also be using Obey for more shots). Tots give Doppel access to sprint. Madnesses are the masters of any board with lots of impassible terrain (though on such boards, I'd go Lilith or Dreamer if I'm playing competitively).

-Finally, the Nurse is great, but I find she often has to stay home. By the time I have the correct number of Waldgeists and scheme runners, I don't have space for her. 

And then there is Bad Juju, who simply doesn't work with Zoraida :( Lilith is his master.

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Zoraida is probably my most competitive master in both Gremlins and Neverborn, perhaps because I run her so often or perhaps because she has such an amazing range of abilities which can be used to control the board, your hand, activations etc and either earn vp or deny the enemy.

In Neverborn I run Zoraida with one of two builds with only minor alterations depends on strategies and schemes.

Swampfiends
Normally includes Bad Juju and/or McTavish, Silurids, waldgiest and sometimes boars and/or gators.
I will then mind control a nurse in or sometimes a pig and hog whisperer.

(waiting on spawn mother and gupps to see how much things change).

With this type of crew I find anything scheme marker heavy is trivial to accomplish - Tarot reading (fickle winds of fate) + repulsive + leaping scheme runners  just works too well.
From the shadows waldgeist with 4" engagement range pin things down and are "usually" a pain to remove.

Doll Factory
Widow weaver and sometimes teddy, with stitched together and wicked dolls.
Normally mind control a nurse into this.

(yet to try adding Vasilisa to create the Malifaux needle and stitch-work society)

Stitched together are amazing for hammering your vodoo dolls wounds down once you've dropped conditions on it  (as the doll will choose to fail the df and then get a straight flip that cant be cheated - at no risk to the stitched) and then you can use that scrap marker to summon a wicked doll or save up for teddy.
wicked dolls are great scheme runners when you have a number of them on the table and Zoraida enjoys activating late where possible to either push things out of vp zones with repulsive, move scheme markers to score from fickle winds of fate or simply abuse obey etc after your opponents hand is burnt out.

If you want to master vodoo doll abuse (at least with paralyze) try this:

Turn one Summon the doll and hem (do not kill the doll) obey the nurse to paralyze the doll - activate the doll remove paralyze, hex bag for burning etc.
Turn two -obey the nurse to paraylse the doll, obey the doll to hem a new target, activate the doll and remove paraylze, activate the nurse and paraylze the doll again.
Turn three activate the doll to remove paralyze (if hem is still active) paralyze the doll (weaver/nurse) - kill the doll, Zoraida summons a new doll which hems to a new target and obeys nurse/widow to paralyze.
 

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