Ramos Tactics?

[krazyCarl]

So, my local gaming group is picking up Malifaux, and I have a handful of models, from a few years ago, that I liked but never got around to painting.  Among them is the Old Marcus box set, plus Ramos, some Arachnids, and Joss, as well as a decent model to proxy Langston, so I have a core for both Ramos and Marcus.  There is a Marcus Tactics thread that I've been reading, but I don't see one for Ramos.  

Is there a good Tactics thread for new Ramos players kicking around anywhere?  I've seen a few for Ramos with something specific, but no general tactics thread.

[Freman]

Basically he's what it says on the box. Hire a cheap construct (Mobile Toolkit or Electrical Creation) to kill on the first turn for scrap (with Joss for two scrap if you like), summon spiders (two or three at a time if you can) and wade in. In some ways he's a bit like Nicodem in terms of being able to churn out a lot of models. In theory you could get an additional 15 Spiders and a few Electrical Creations (they blow themselves up so you can't rely on them) over the course of the game. If you take the Mech Rider you can add a few more Spiders to that total. Throw in a Large Steam Arachnid for more spider related goodness, and your choice of supporting Arcanist models.

[Mxbedlam]

Generally what I do is to summon for the first two turns and get your positioning correct. Make sure that arcing screen is up and Ramos is in range to buff attacks. Then turn 3 Ramos can zap things that are engaged with spiders and Joss and Howard clean up.

[Fog]

Ramos isn't too difficult to play, but it can take some work to really get the most out of him.  Positioning spiders to block charge lanes, using them to debuff defense when needed, knowing the right time to voltron into a swarm to cause havoc or eat scheme markers...  Easy to learn, hard to master.  

Your best bet for playing Ramos is to bring in spiders, let your auras (Under Pressure & Arcing Screen) keep you going, and apply Hank with precision, not like a club.  You'll do well enough as you're learning.  You'll start to unlock the little things that make the difference as you go.

[Derpology]

A solid shuffle in tactics is take the Rail Golem with a few metal gaming in tow for the df bonus as well as using their magnetism to expedite the blowing up of the electric creations too.  A lot of fun combos with the MS&U. 

[Clockwork Top Hat]

Ramos is a good master in that he can synergise with just about any construct and in the arcanists we have a large number to choose from. Have you checked the Pull My Finger page for him?

[krazyCarl]

Thanks folks.  I'll have to see about getting more arachnids, and maybe tracking down a Brass Arachnid on eBay or the trade forum.  Then just play a bunch of games to get used to the flow of the game.  I have a bunch of things to learn.  When to Swarm the Arachnids, how many to buy, what other models synergize with Ramos, how to utilize Lanston without over-extending him.  The kind of stuff that will come with experience and knowledge of the game.

 

@Clockwork Top Hat: What's Pull My Finger?

 

[Freman]

Pull My Finger Wiki, Ramos

It's a fan Wiki that gives advice on units in Malifaux.

[krazyCarl]

@Freman Thanks, it's going take some time to read through all of that.

[Fog]

I refuse to link to the wiki because of the name.  I'll tell people to google 'Malifaux wiki' but that's it.

[The Warlock]

I'll post this link here: http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/115195-ramos-tips-and-advice

Ramos himself is a bit of a one trick pony, with his crew doing it's thing and Ramos using scrap to pump out spiders each turn. His upgrades depends on the situation- though combat mechanic is quite good. An Arcane effigy is also handy for condition removal - summoned spiders get slow after all.

 

@krazyCarl the brass arachnid is not worth it in my opinion. If you have a 10 of tomes, you should be using it to summon spiders. 4 stones much better spent elsewhere, like on an electric creation, a spider or a toolkit (as you'll want Joss for a T1 charge for scrap). Round 1 activation should be: soon-to-be-scrap moves to edge of Joss's charge range -> Joss charges, kills the scrap generator then with creative salvage you gain 2 scrap. Activate Ramos next to get his spider-man on. From there, it's all about keeping Ramos near scrap to get spiders out, but don't keep Ramos too far away from combat otherwise the spiders won't get anywhere.

To get for Ramos:

-Gunsmiths. They are solid ranged support, MSU and are quite durable for what they bring

- 12 spiders, 6 individual, 2 swarms. As for when to swarm or not:

Depending on the schemes and strategies, you'll want more models in a corner of the board - having individual spiders helps there. Given that they come on field with some damage and slow, if you need them to survive for VP reasons, get them to perform a defensive stance if possible. If you're going for scheme marker placing strategies- if 3 spiders are summoned, try to accomplice/companion (can't remember which does what) the middle one and use it's 1 AP to swarm. The swarm comes into field fully healed, without slow and can remove scheme markers  which is a good denial tactic. The problem is that to get a swarm out you need to flip/cheat a face tome card and use a soulstone for that third tome. It's not really advised unless you can pull it off and chain activate the middle spider (as all 3 need to be in base to base contact).

Regarding spiders in general:

-Remember an enemy model gets -1 Df in base contact with these guys, so take advantage of tying up an opponent. Ml4 isn't much, but when there's 2 spiders in base contact with target model...

The spiders themselves can explode too, so if you have the right cards, you can turn them into 2" radii bombs. Mostly they're there to run schemes and be a nuisance.

I haven't had much luck with Howard, but stick an imbued energies on him and watch him gain 4AP when you discard that upgrade. The rail golem is okayish, gut synergises better with Mei-Feng. Ramos can try to combat mechanic it to keep it alive, but the golem wants to be in combat, Ramos doesn't.

- Large arachnids. I haven't used them yet, but they have creative salvage same as Joss and can use the extra scrap generated to buff themselves. They are slow though, but that's not too much of a problem.

The mobile toolkit and soulstone miners will be officially released soon (and were at the just-gone easter sale) but they're also good choices for Ramos. I'm going back to playing Neverborn so it'll be a while before I try these out.

 

Hopefully this helps!
 

[Freman]

Also Johan.

[admiralvorkraft]

100 years Johan(na).

The 8ss totem (comes with Imbued Energies) for Ramos/Kaeris/Ironsides

[Fog]

I personally think Combat Mechanic is not worth the points.  It's not worth it to heal a spider, Langston is either out of reach or dead, and Joss handles himself. I find in general actions used to heal need to generate a gross amount of healing (Johan) to be worth the opportunity cost. That could instead be a pair of electrical fire that finish off wounded models or kill something, swinging the game further in your direction.

The brass arachnid doesn't need a ten of tombs, but a ten of any suit and an action to prime. I can get why folks might not like the resource expenditure, but a single reactivation on Langston is well worth four Stones IMHO.

I'm also not sure where "swarms don't have slow" comes from. I do find it easy enough to swarm spiders turn four or five by having spiders otherwise finished with their goal find each other and join up. You don't need to summon three at a time to do it.

[Bengt]

Re: Brass Arachnid, Stoke can be understudied by Cassandra (who can stone for the suit) for either a second Reactivate (using 2 10+ instead of 3) or your only Reactivate if you have to move up the BA that turn as it tends to be left behind. Occasionally you wont even have to spend an AP as she can Understudy as a trigger on her sabre for a .

[The Warlock]

7 hours ago, Fog said:

I personally think Combat Mechanic is not worth the points.  It's not worth it to heal a spider, Langston is either out of reach or dead, and Joss handles himself. I find in general actions used to heal need to generate a gross amount of healing (Johan) to be worth the opportunity cost. That could instead be a pair of electrical fire that finish off wounded models or kill something, swinging the game further in your direction.

The brass arachnid doesn't need a ten of tombs, but a ten of any suit and an action to prime. I can get why folks might not like the resource expenditure, but a single reactivation on Langston is well worth four Stones IMHO.

I'm also not sure where "swarms don't have slow" comes from. I do find it easy enough to swarm spiders turn four or five by having spiders otherwise finished with their goal find each other and join up. You don't need to summon three at a time to do it.

Sorry yeah, I typed the wrong thing with swarms- was having a brain fart they do get slow, I rarely use them unless I play schemes and even then I'd rather more spiders. Spiders are meant to finish objectives and die by being a nuisance. Not saying that you should summon 3, it's more of a "if you need a swarm now" thing- say, if you're facing Colette or your opponent is dropping scheme markers galore.

Combat mechanic is good and worth it in my opinion- it doesn't have to be used on healing spiders and can be used to heal Joss if he's taking a beating or any other worthwhile construct. Ramos is more support than flinging spells, but the electrical fire is handy to use, as well as magnetism. The Brass arachnid does need 10 tomes or higher. The Ca is tome, the TN is tome, tome. It's not worth spending a high card on the off chance my brass arachnid has:

a- survived long enough to follow Howard as the range on stoke is not that good. Let alone keeping both the spider and Howard alive for that reactivate.

b- I can't guarantee I'll need to use a high card to cheat elsewhere and flipping one of four tomes needed is low.

c- become impromptu scrap for the creation of more spiders.

d- Rewire may add the second tome required, but with a short walk, you're gambling on the above plus having the arachnid close enough in the first place and hasn't been gibbed as your opponent has clued on to what you're doing.

All that makes the brass arachnid feels gimmicky at best and far too situational for regular use. In theory, yes it's nice to put reactivate on a death machine or beater but getting that reactivate off at the right place at the right time is too high-risk, low-reward for my tastes.

 

[Fog]

We'll have to agree to disagree. 

And that's one of the best parts of Malifaux.  You can play what you want, the way that you want, and still do well.

[Ampers&nd]

I love the brass arachnid, not sure I'd ever field Ramos without him, the ability to reactivate two extra models a turn with the right cards (because his first activation is almost always to give himself the tome then reactivate himself) is well worth the investment, especially with big hitters like Joss and Howard in play. As much as I love summoning spiders, sometimes getting Joss across the table or Howard into flurry range can be much better use of a high card. 

(also- the times I've top decked an extra re-activate with Lazarus never fail to cheer me up;))

although I don't have a BA model spare, I do have a card if you need one. 

Other advice would be- Lazarus is a solid choice for Ramos if you want some ranged support, he can lay down a lot of fire between his rapid fire ability, copying Joss/Ramos shoting attack and Imbued energies. as mentioned you can cheek an extra reactivate amongst other actions he can steal from the wealth of constructs around him, and his heal makes him very survivable if there's nothing to copy. 

Metal Gamin are still good despite the cuddle, magnetism gives them a good burst of speed and they can threaten enemy constructs. 

The mobile toolkit is amazing, not just for exploding for spiders but in itself it can really up the threat on models like Lazarus and Howard, I've pulled a couple of spectacular turn 5 explosions off over the years when my opponent has left it alive too long too. 

Rail Golem is potentially a good swap in when you need a beater more than a tank, reactivate gives him more burning to work with as well as the standard benefits, however locomotion is his best ability, and whilst fantastic it is very Tome hungry, and you could be better off saving them for Ramos or the BA. 

Soulstone Miners make great scheme runners, appearing upfield is very useful, they are durable for their cost and pretty punchy if they need to fight. if you don't want to send them off alone though you can sit and spawn ss, keeping them within range of bleeding edge tech to stay alive a bit longer.

The only non-constructs I would definitely recommend  are Johan/Johanna for all the reasons, and Willie because he is another good ranged attacker that is frankly a bit too cheap for the amount of carnage he can cause. 

[Fictor]

One question, when Lazarus do Assimilate on Brass Arachnid only need 6+ for copy the action or need 6+ for copy + 10tomes+ for do?

[Bengt]

9 minutes ago, Fictor said:

One question, when Lazarus do Assimilate on Brass Arachnid only need 6+ for copy the action or need 6+ for copy + 10tomes+ for do?

He needs to do both duels.

[krazyCarl]

More great ideas.  I'm working on my first wave of models.  Ramos, Joss, Howard, Electric Creation and Spiders.  Then after that, I'll be looking at some more Constructs, probably Metal Gamin, and when it is available, the Arcane Effigy.  Once I have a decent pool of constructs to run with Ramos, I'll fill out my Marcus Beasts, looking at crossover with Rasputina.

@ Ampers&nd, I have ordered the Wave 1 deck from Wargame Vault, so I'm all set there, but thanks for the offer.

 

Now I just need to decide if I want to go with wintery themed bases, looking ahead to picking up Rasputina in a few months.

 

[Bengt]

6 hours ago, krazyCarl said:

when it is available, the Arcane Effigy

The Effigy has been released. Do you mean the Emissary?

[krazyCarl]

Oh, yeah, I meant the Emissary, not the Effigy.  The minotaur one.  Are there rumors of when that will be released?

[Fog]

I have the very unpopular opinion that the Arcane Emissary is Bad.  I think it is especially so with Ramos.  I feel it doesn't really offer much to the faction that half a dozen models don't already do, although his personal upgrade with some of them (Raspy, for example) is very good.  With Ramos, you're bringing a 10 stone model whose upgrade only gives him the ability to benefit from Ramos's buffs when instead you could bring Joss, who's tankier, Langston, who is faster and killier, or the rail golem, who I'm not a fan of but has his strong points.  

Take this with a grain of salt, though, as I really dislike the design of the Emissary and that may be coloring my opinion (our cute little wizard buddy grows up into... a giant robot bull?)

[Bengt]

5 hours ago, krazyCarl said:

Oh, yeah, I meant the Emissary, not the Effigy.  The minotaur one.  Are there rumors of when that will be released?

Well there is a fan theory that all the Emissaries will be released as a big splash at GenCon in August, I don't think it's based on anything concrete though.