An Adepticon Tournament Report - 1st

[Icemyn]

Over the weekend I went to Adepticon to compete in the masters,  as I have for the last few years, the big difference being this year I drove away a winner, this is that story.

This will not be a comprehensive play by play, activation by activation tournament report as I personally find those to be very boring, but also because as you will shortly see that would be a waste of our time. 

First I would like take a quick detour and tell you a story of my first day at Adepticon this year. 
I arrived at around 4pm local time after driving for ~10 hours which was just in time to see my brother win an enforcer brawl and get a really sweet medal. 
I decided I wanted one of those things so I signed up for Henchman Hardcore at 6pm, unfortunately I did not plan to play in the event so I didn't have an actual list or anything planned so we checked into our hotel room and built some lists. I settled on this:

Dashel
-Watch My Back
-Badge of Office
Rifleman
Rifleman
Warden (I wanted to play Queeg, but didn't have a suitable proxy c'est la vie)

As we were leaving the room I wasn't confident in my pick so I audibled to this:
Viktoria of Blood
-Oathkeeper
-Sisters in Fury
Taelor
-Oathkeeper
Hodgepodge Effigy
Malifaux Child

So first round I get paired against Candy, Kade, Dopple, Waldgeist. After I deploy first my opponent deploys his whole crew in a pile ~12 inches from Viktoria without anything between them. I lose initiative and my opponent activates Kade and lures Viktoria toward him and passes to me. I activated the Malifaux child and went on to lose that game. For the rest of the weekend my brother and friends asked if I could smell toast. Good times. 

Anywho let's go to the main event I played Outcasts and it was one of these two lists every round. 

Viktoria of Ashes - 6 pool
-Synchronized Slaying
-Sisters in Spirit
-Survivalist
Viktoria of Blood
-Mark of Shez'uul
-Oathkeeper
Student of Conflict
Killjoy
-Oathkeeper
Nix
-Infectious Melodies
Obedient Wretch
Malifaux Rat x4

-Or-

Leveticus - 4 pool
-Desolate Soul
-Oathkeeper
Hollow Waif x2
Ashes and Dust
Killjoy
-Oathkeeper
Nix
-Infectious Melodies
Obedient Wretch
Malifaux Rat x3

To those people who don't know what is going on here let me give you a quick education on how RatJoy works. 
1) Activate a rat. They activate a model. Repeat three times. 
2) Throw a rat at that pile of three rates with the obedient wretch maybe even throw another rat elsewhere, they activate a model.
3) Activate new slow rat he becomes a rat king. They activate a model.
4) Rat King becomes a Rat Catcher and a Rat. They activate a model.
5) Rat Catcher gives a rat reactivate on a 4. They activate a model. 
6) Do stuff until your opponent is out of models, they may be already. 
7) Infectious melodies gives your reactivating rat fast and you must sac at end of activation, that rat moves 20-25" up the board gets sacrificed and Killjoy pops out to charge w.e makes you most happy. 
 

Round 1 - Flank & Reconnoiter - Dan Johnson
Nicodem
Mortimer
Emissary
Belle
Bete
Crooliganx2

I played the aforementioned Viktoria list and took Neutralize the Leader and Convict Labor.

I had heard Dan's name before, but did not know who he was. Apparently he is part of the Before we Begin Podcast, so check that out if you want to know more about Dan. 

Turn 1:
He makes some corpse markers, moves them around with the vulture, turns those markers into mindless zombies and then summons a second belle and a flesh construct drawing cards from the zombies being sacrificed. I don't play Nicodem nearly ever so I thought the interaction was cool even if it is common knowledge. His Emissary walked toward the middle and put up the shard markers at the center of the board likely to stop the viks. Anyway by the time he was done activating models I had finished playing with my Rats. So a rat walked 5x, Killjoy showed up charged Nicodem still deep in his deployment zone and killed him in that activation(revealing Neutralize ofc), I think after all the ss prevents and onslaughts it was like 6 attacks. Bete popped out.  The Viks did their patented slingshot Maneuver and Vik of blood put the emissary at H2K and damaged the Flesh construct. 

Turns 2-3:
I remove the rest of his models from the board, there was very little he could do to stop it. He scored 1VP from Reconoitter and 2vp for Detonate as he lured me to his markers. I missed one point on Convict labor, mostly because I wasn't paying attention. 

Final Score: 9-3

 

Round 2 - Standard & Extraction - Nathan Miller
Collette
Miranda
Willie
December Acolyte x2
Silent one x2
Doves x3

I played the Leveticus list and took Hunting Party and Search the Ruins.

Nathan is someone I have known for a while and you a liable to see him at the top tables of any event he is in. He was the highest finishing Arcanist player at Adepticon. 

Turn 1: My plan was to outactivate Nate and then send Killjoy at Miranda as I felt she was most likely to be problematic. Unfortunately he had other plans. Nate activated his guys moving them around for positioning and such while I played with rats trying to ensure their safety. Then the magic happened. Collette prompted Myranda giving her reactivate (this was when I realized I needed a new plan) and pushing her up the board. Then Myranda activated chain activated herself and charged Leveticus dealing 3 then pooped out a Cerebus in his face. He did this because I had ashes up towards 4 of his models and he wanted to stop any teleport shenanigans. Leveticus activated and tried his best to kill the cerebus engaging him but missed both channel attacks and hit with the non-channeled attack because reasons. Leve did a powerful 3 total damage and became a waif. Cerebus lept and swung at the waif dealing her 3, but alive. Killjoy came in and killed the Cerebus, but now he was in my deployment zone so that wasn't great.

Turn 2: Nate spent alot of AP and attacks trying to kill Ashes and the core and after a reactivating armor ignoring Willie he was successful. Unfortunately due to some poor positioning he would not score extraction. Killjoy and Leveticus killed the doves that were going to score leave the mark via Practiced Production. Killjoy breaking oathkeeper to double walk and hit a dove might be the low point of the tournament for me, but it possibly denied Practiced Production as well as scoring hunting party. 

Turn 3: Due to the fact that I moved the marker toward me and removed his doves he had to actually come forward and try to fight in order to score any VP. Leveticus and friends stopped that from happening. 

Final Score: 10-0

Round 3 - Close & Collect the Bounty - Peter Sidaway from the UK
Hamelin
Johan
Ashes and Dust
Librarian
Stolen
Obedient Wretch
Trapper
Rats x2

I played the above Viktoria list taking Quick Murder on Ashes and Show of Force.

Peter was a very friendly chap and a pleasure to play against, after our game we talked general strategy and such. Hopefully I get the opportunity to play him and other UK based players in the future. 

Turn 1: 
I obviously am in no way ever going to out activate Hamelin, but still need to get him to activate important models before springing Ratjoy on him. I would say there must have been 15 minutes of just both of us posturing and rat shenanigans. He makes the first error of moving Ashes and Dust away from his crew with a Hamelin lure and then activates the trapper while still having other rat-esque models left to activate. I spring Killjoy right in front of his whole crew with charge range on the trapper. Due to Ashes being unchargeable and Hamelin's no charge aura he might be the only model that Killjoy can feast upon on the table. In defense of this he has to walk Ashes back from the other side of the board and then charge Killjoy. Ashes obviously can basically never kill Killjoy in one activation, but he had to stop the trapper from dying and letting killjoy run amok in his backfield. Killjoy breaks Oathkeeper for fast and puts down Ashes(Quick Murder). The Ashen core is put nearly in base contact with Hamelin and the Dust Storm on his deployment edge. I slingshot the viks up remember it is close deployment so it's not all that far. Blood charges into the core, but not in LOS of Hamelin so as to avoid his no charge Aura. Vik of blood with Mark Of Shez'uul easily puts down the core. Peter moves the rest of his models about trying to inflict damage on Killjoy or Blood Vik, but neither really sticks. 

Turn 2: 
I win initiative and Vik of Ashes kills the Storm accomplices Vik of Blood and she kills Johan. Without anyway left to remove the 3 beaters now in his face Peter sees the writing on the wall and concedes the game. 

As I said before the game we talked about outcasts and list builds etc and he actually gave me a good idea which showed up in round 5. 

Final Score: 10-0

 

Round 4 - Corners & Reckoning - Ian Nelson
Hamelin
Aionus
Trapper
Hans w/ scout the field
stolen
Obedient wretch
rats?

I played the above Leveticus list with Show of Force & Convict Labor.

I only took Leveticus because I believed that my opponent would have to be crazy to take Hamelin in Reckoning, I was wrong. So once again I was going to be outactivated no matter what I did and Killjoy is pretty bad against Hamelin regardless. Ian and I have chatted online before, but had not met in person. This was easily the hardest match of the tournament for me. 

Deployment: I am forced to deploy first and realize that his plan with Hans is to break scout the field and shoot an important model off the table immediately. 

Turn 1: I win initiative and decide to let Ian go first. I find out I was right about Hans only I was incorrect in the target. I planned on him trying to shoot a waif off the table to limit Leveticus so I hid them behind models, but he was always intending to shoot the Wretch and shoot her he did. So now that my RatJoy plan was shot to shit I had to improvise. For the rest of the turn I move to take the center of the table/SE corner and force him to stay back from Leveticus. Killjoy gets attacked and slowed by Aionus, but pops out near the trapper in the NE threatening a charge on turn 2. Ian has barely left his deployment zone at the end of turn 1. 

Turn 2: He wins initiative and runs the trapper away. I activate my remaining rats with infectious melodies so that they will die and not give away reckoning. We spend the rest of the turn Jockeying for position with him staying pretty huddled in his deployment zone of note I was not able to hide Nix from Hans so he shot off Nix's upgrade denying me Show of Force on turn 2. I did place about a million scheme markers on the center line though so I scored Convict Labor. Killjoy hovers around the Western board edge scaring away his models, again threatening a charge on the trapper. 

Turn 3: Again he wins initiative and runs the trapper away maybe taking a shot at leveticus which misses. I realize early on in this turn that I need to get killjoy into the center to score show of force while also keeping Aionus away from the center because he has 2 upgrades on him and would deny my Show of Force and score for him if he had it. So I do some careful premeasuring as I move Ashes up showing that Leveticus is in teleport and unload range on Aionus to demonstrate my intent. He takes the bait and Obeys Aionus away. Leveticus teleports to Ashes and kills two rats to score reckoning. Now Aionus is Ca expert not nimble so he has no way to get to the center. Ian uses infectious melodies on 2 separate rat catchers to get them to run to the center line and place markers unfortunately those rat catchers had to die for their effort. We both score Convict Labor I also score Show of Force and Reckoning. 

Turn 4: I actually won initiative so Leveticus activated and killed Hans and a stolen which gave me Reckoning on this turn. With nearly all of his offense crippled Ian would never score reckoning in this game.

At the end of 5 turns the score was 8-3, but it went on for two more turns allowing me the full 10 Ian picked up 2 more points via Frame for Murder on the Trapper. 

Final Score: 10-5

 

Round 5 - Standard & Guard the Stash - Anthony Pazera
Leveticus
Waif x2
Aionus
Ashes and Dust
Librarian
Rat x4

I took the Viktoria's as they are very capable of clearing out stash markers w/ Hunting Party and Convict Labor.
Also after talking with Peter S from Round 3 I made these changes to the list:
- Synchronized Slaying
- Survivalist
+ Oathkeeper
+ Sisters in Fury

Anthony was a very good player and said that he had only been playing for a year which I thought was very cool given that were were playing for 1st. I will say that I played an absolutely abysmal game and he played a very good game after turn 1. He hadn't seen RatJoy and wasn't familiar with the Viks threat range so you can't begrudge him not playing the first turn well. Whereas I put on a clinic on how not to play Malifaux after turn 1. Anyway the game. 

Turn 1: Anthony didn't take an obedient wretch so even with his own mini rat engine I had him out activated by a very significant margin. When he was done activating his models Ashes and Dust was hanging out about 5" from Aionus who attacked Killjoy, but missed. The Vik Slingshot was able to put Vik of Blood with +2 damage directly between Ashes and Aionus. After she was done spinning Aionus and Ashes were dead and Blood Vik was standing in the way of the reformation. Killjoy did his charge thing, but did no damage. At the end of turn 1 Anthony was down 26ss in models and things weren't looking great. He did claim set up on Killjoy for 2VP however. 

Turn 2: Anthony won initiative and tried to have the storm kill blood vik, but it didn't take. I then activated the blood vik and she killed both halves of Ashes. Leveticus moved and killed Vik of Ashes. I moved up scored for Hunting Party and for Guarding the stash. 

Turn 3-5: I would go through these, but honestly it was a comedy of errors on my part as I said while Anthony played extremely well taking advantage of my errors to try and creep back into the game. If he had not been so far behind I'm sure he would have won the game easily. I could try to blame fatigue or hunger, but Anthony was playing under the same conditions, so kudos to him. 

Final Score: 5-4

It was a well run tournament and all of my opponent were wonderful, so no complaints there. I really appreciate them showing some compassion and allowing me to win. 

 

Now it is time for serious talk directed at Wyrd and Justin:
You need to fix the rat activation control or you will only see Outcasts winning tournaments as long as you allow it to exist. I know it sounds like hyperbole and please go ahead and doubt me, but I implore you to put it on the table. Actually try it out, you will see I am not wrong in this. 

The biggest problem is that it is literally free to do. A rat costs 2ss and 4 of them make an 8ss Rat King, which is just a great model. Then the Rat King can become a Rat Catcher and a rat, also 8ss, also a good model. You may be wondering why this matters, well 3 steam arachnids are 12ss and the swarm they make is 8ss. Four abominations are 16ss a desolation engine is 13ss. The point is you are not penalized for buying rat activations whereas you are for the other combination models. You would in fact be making the wrong choice if you hired a rat king instead of 4 rats. 

Activation control is important and we all know that. I wouldn't say it is the most important thing in Malifaux, but it certainly ranks. 
Let's look at the simplest guaranteed rat activation method 2 rats and a wretch:
1) wretch explodes into two rats
2) Rat
3) Rat
4) Rat
5) Rat becomes King
6) King becomes Catcher and rat
7) Rat
8) Catcher gives reactivate
9) Rat

That is 9 activations for 8ss and you are left with 8ss left on the table one of which is an 8wd "armor+1" model with don't mind me. Outactivating your opponent by this much allows you to let them take their whole turn see what it is they are trying to do and counter it. You also don't need to do this all on turn 1, you can wait you can do some of it you can literally choose where and when you want to "go off". This isn't a oh it only affects turn 1 sort of deal, though even if it was I would advocate for a change. I understand that Wyrd does not want to do errata in general, but I honestly don't think they can wait on this. The meta cannot adapt as there is no part of this that any other faction can fight. 

My suggestions for Errata:
1) Make Rats and Obedient wretch unhireable except by hamelin: I think the hireable rats are the real problem, but in talking to other players at Adepticon they said that they see the obedient wretch being taken by itself in random lists to generate incremental advantage through the game. I can certainly see where they are coming from.

2) Change Tangled to say "If Hamelin is this crew's leader...": This prevents Rat Kings from Forming outside of Hamelin crews this immediately stops the appeal of rats. This would certainly make the rats a liability in Reckoning if nothing else. I do not think this goes far enough. 

3) Make Rats Unhireable: This would stop all the issues except the slow burn of the obedient wretch. Hamelin may take a hit here, but honestly as a Hamelin player myself this would not be the end of the world. 

4) Some combination of the above: I certainly don't know everything and trust Wyrd to do what is right at the end of the day.  

 

[Fetid Strumpet]

I can't say I've encountered this, but I know in 1.5 part of the powerhouse that was Kirai was because of all the Seishin she could hire as low low cost and then burn activations actually doing useful things and then move her crew into place and hit like a truck after anything that could screw the plan up had activated for the turn. Wyrd made Seishin unhireable which I think was the right move. I know Rathnard has been singing the praises of using rats to burn activations for awhile so I'm wondering about what other's perspectives are vis a vis this interaction?

[MMW-Kyle]

We've embraced the rat engine for a while now in our local meta. With that said, the ratjoy cruise missile is really where it goes over the top. Killjoy's downside is taking out one model then getting killed. This doesn't happen when the opponent doesn't have any models to activate.

I agree limiting it to Hamelin would help but even then there's some serious play with him. Nick and I have been playing around with the idea of Alyce / Desolation Engine with Hamelin. This coupled with the Ratjoy could provide extremely similar results while doing the rat engine better than both the lists above were.

TLDR the rat engine itself is good, but coupled with being able to throw multiple 13ss monsters (or viks) in your opponents face on turn 1 with no risk of retaliation on that turn is what I think needs to get looked at.

[OneLittleThunder]

Thanks for the review and the insight. I was in the Masters at Adepticon, but certainly not in the upper ranks, and reading this makes it clear that I wouldn't be ready for that level of play anyway.

I have played against Hamelin a few times (including Saturday), and found the rat activation engine quite frustrating; knowing that it's a problem even at the highest levels of play (and with other Outcast masters) suggests that it's not just my own inexperience that made it that way.

I am curious, though...you suggest limiting the rats and/or Obedient Wretch to Hamelin as a possible fix. Is Hamelin himself sufficiently underpowered with respect to the other Outcast masters that it's balanced for him to use the rat engine while the other Outcast masters can't? If anything, it seems that his synergy would make the rats even more potent under him, without taking anything away from the extraordinary amount of activation control they provide.

Kyle's comment also seems relevant - maybe changing Killjoy so he only unburies when a non-Peon model is killed would be more balanced?

[Icemyn]

Hamelin by himself is harmless. Viktorias, Leveticus, Misaki, etc are not. Hamelin needs to be able to out activate as he needs to control the game to have any effectiveness. You kill his one or two beaters and he isn't going to do much. 

Every faction has their own version of the Killjoy bomb. I do think RatJoy is probably the best though. Taking RatJoy away from all the masters except the one master who has one killy model in the whole crew is probably ok. 

[MMW-Kyle]

also Hans with Scout the field can one shot the wretch. Until this is fixed in some way it may see play

[Icemyn]

The bad news is other factions can't take scout the field so they will still languish. 

[Icemyn]

The Hans thing did surprise me, but as I noted in the report you can hide the wretch behind other friendly models as well to deny even the Hans strategy. 

[robk444]

Is the real issue with activation control or the ability to use it to your advantage to get killjoy across the table on turn 1 after the opponent activated. 

If the the first one then you do need to restrict the rats in some way. 

If the second you can fix it simply by adjusting killjoy in one of two ways:

1. Make it a non-peon model is killed or sacrifice

2. When an enemy model kills or sacrifices a model in this crew. 

According to the above the super activation control only exists for turn 1. After that you only have a rat catcher for your 8 stones of hired rats. 

Although the Wretch can lead to future activation controls but you are trading 4SS (1 Wretch) for 4SS (2 Rats)

[Wellingstone]

I agree that simply making rats unhireable is probably the K.I.S.S. solution to reigning it in.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Robk444 Multiple masters can get klilljoy, or other beatsticks across the board turn 1, and I don't think you could restrict them by restricting Killjoy. Molly can do it, Tara can do it. Colette can have Howard there, etc...

[JSKrush]

I agree with your conclusions that something or maybe even multiple things need to be done here.  Being an Outcast player, I used the same Wretch and rat tactic in Leveticus lists with Belles to out activate and bring stuff to me to kill.  Making just one of them un-hirable could be a fix and still match faction hiring.

I also support the idea of Killjoy popping out only against non-peon kills as it could only be the next Killjoy bomb is with another faction that gets something just as cheap and fast as rats.

[Wellingstone]

The problem is not so much that killjoy gets there turn one. It's that he gets there when your opponent is totally activated with no way to reprise during that turn or set up to intercept or anything similar. For many crews their entire crew has activated before anything significant happens for the rat engine player. There are a lot of lists that can deliver heavy hitters on turn one, but typically there is a risk associated with it. killjoy is not quite as scary when you have the ability to react. As it stand the number of crews that can effectively counter this tactic is pretty small.

[Omenbringer]

Appreciate the write ups.

Sad to see that Hamelin's rats are still causing problems, hope this gets addressed faster than last time.

[Snoutopus]

Sounds like a pretty degenerate situation. Thanks for bringing it up; we haven't seen it in our local group, but that looks like a landmine waiting to be stepped on. 

[Bengt]

7 hours ago, Icemyn said:

The Hans thing did surprise me, but as I noted in the report you can hide the wretch behind other friendly models as well to deny even the Hans strategy. 

Scout the Field ignores LoS completely.

Hard cover to cancel the focus  could help though as he needs a severe to kill an Obedient Wretch, of course if he has I pay better or Fast for Focus +2 he can mostly likely cheat anyway.

[trikk]

I think the easiest solution would probably be make rats unhireable and make obedient wretch rat summoning trigger once per turn.

I`ve had so many Wretches throw low crows against Lasarus its not even funny. This model has one of the most reliable summonings and costs 4SS while being a significant minion that is immune to distract/cursed object.

 

NPE all the way.

[Tawg]

I feel that I have learned a lot reading this.

And none of it is good for me

[katadder]

hmm having played against hamelin twice in tourneys I hadnt seen this. but this explanation does show the rats to be an issue. especially the cheap minion able to easily summon for activation control.

maybe something will get done, hopefully wyrd will keep an eye on it. having this combo capable with poweful masters such as levi and the viks is the icing on the cake, I like the suggestion of rat kings only forming under hamelin.

[amanwing]

Time to buy some rats.

[mythicFOX]

Firstly huge congratulations on winning the event. Winning a large five round event takes a lot of skill any way you slice it.

I agree that the rat engine is very potent. Time will tell if it's potent enough to need cuddling. There does tend to be a knee jerk reaction to whatever the latest trick is, especially after a big tournament.  I'm sure if it proves problematic over time Justin and co will take action.

[Math Mathonwy]

I prefer the Rats no being hireable. Because let's face it - you can't use them for anything "legit". It's always a gimmick.

A bit similar to Mindless Zombies - during the first open beta their price fluctuated because they were very breakable if you gave them a "fair" cost and if you made them ridiculously expensive, then there was no point.

[Myyrä]

Obedient Wretch alone is also stupid enough that it should have never gotten through testing.

[Icemyn]

@Bengt You are correct. I only read it quickly, certainly makes Hans a reasonable counter, so long as you are playing outcasts and win init. 

[Viagrus]

If Wyrd needs more data, I suggest that Icemyn sweeps this year's big tourneys with those same two lists and players all over the country start playing those lists to win their local tourneys. I never thought I'd condone netlisting, but something needs to happen. That should give them enough data. 

If Hamelin is dependent on this kind of tactic and the idea is to alter Rats and Wretches maybe add abilities to one of Hamelin's upgrade that ignores those alterations. It is a large amount of errata, but it could be an appropriate approach to fixing this issue. All this coming from an armchair game designer, so enjoy your grain (or stone) of salt.