Bishop ? ?

[BigStick]

Hi all

Just wanted to hear your opinions on Bishop. I know strats and schemes play a massive role in crew composition but i wanted to hear your thoughts on the big pit fighter. As a 10ss model he comes at a price and there is a lot of competition for the 10ss slots (Taelor and Strongarm to name a couple). I quite like Bishop but I've yet to see him really shine 

[CapnBloodbeard]

His defensive trigger is nice.  Relentless (IIRC) can be good, depending on your opponent.  Study opponent (attack their WP) can be fantastic, or you might not use it at all.  Great to avoid df triggers, or sometimes give yourself an advantage.

 

I love swift...at a recent tournament I found myself often using him as a scheme runner.  Although, in hindsight perhaps I could have been better served using a pair of Freikorpsmenn, because if I have him at Taelor or Strongarm Suit....well, I'll only end up with about 6 models on the table, which just isn't enough.  I've been finding I prefer Taelor or the Strongarm suit more...his damage output just isn't quite there, the abilities of those other models are more versatile, he's not that hard to take down and his offensive triggers are a bit situational.

 

Although I laughed when he dealt 8 damage to Johana in a recent match purely from winning 2 defensive duels and flipping severe on the damage....

[Germania]

I'll admit I'm a newer player but I recently played in a tournament with Tara vs The Dreamer. Fast bishop killed well pretty much everything (which was unfortunate as he was my frame for murder). Being able to flurry twice is a LOT of attacks. Or charge and flurry. He single handedly cleared half the board

[Adran]

3 AP is a big big thing. It can make up for a lot of downsides. Bishop looks slow on the card, but thanks to that AP, he can walk 8" and then still drop a scheme marker, or walk 12 ". Making him fast and watching 2 flurries, or a charge and a flurry is a lot of fun. 

He is a toolbox, he has the capabilities for almost any situation, and its not hard to make use of them, but because of that, they aren't quite as good as a dedicated model. 

If you have a tight list with a job for everyone to make the most of their abilities, you probably won't hire Bishop. If you instead react to the situations on the table, and make the most of what you have on a turn by turn basis, then Bishop will be a star. Most people are somewhere in the middle. 

[Jordon]

He's overall solid model that becomes insane with Tara. She can give him fast, bury him, and then unbury him into combat. With 4AP he could flurry twice for an absurd 6 attacks or two (2) attacks. He can also target WP which Tara can severely debuff. There is very few models in the game that can stand up to that kind of abuse.

[CapnBloodbeard]

Now that I have his card in front of me...Df 6 and Wd10, pretty touch....probably a little on the squishy side for a 10SS model, but enforcers can count towards schemes more in gaining grounds.  The defensive trigger is pretty nice though.  

Ml6, 2/3/4 damage.....pretty average.  Push a target?  Maybe handy, maybe I'd rather keep him close and beat him up.  Slow is always nice, crit strike as a possible trigger could be good.  Ignoring armor, hard to kill/incorporeal can be good, and being able to choose your suit, means there's a chance of 2 rams on crit strike (4/5/6).  Haymaker?  can paralyse something and do something else, but unless I'm paralysing a master or there's a real need to take a model out of the equation for a turn, I don't like exchanging 2AP for 2AP.  Anybody else have opinions on that?

But being able to walk and flurry, or walk and charge is always great.  Or walk, drop a marker, walk again.  As a scheme runner you know he can take out the other scheme runners, but it can be hard to fit in bishop where there are so many awesome high cost models, and I can't really fit in 2 high cost models...

[Adran]

One thing to remember about the Haymaker is that Bishop isn't using his full turn to do it. So whilst you are trading 2 AP for 2 ap you aren't trading 1 activation for another activation. Bishop canm paralyse something and then walk away, or hit soemthign else. 

I rarely use it, but when I do it can be game changing. (Paralysing a master is always great, especially when you choose df or Wp for them to defend with)

Whilst 2/3/4 doesn't look that high, you know if you want its 3/4/5, or ignoring their defenses, or also handing out slow, or re-arranging the board, And because you get to choose which suit you add, you have that choice. 

The Df trigger is really very good if you can keep Bishop engaged with Ml, knowing that missing something with Df 6 means you will be hurt yourself really makes you think twice about what attacks are worth it. I've had Bishop kill johan on Johans actiavtion when he flurried Bishop and lost all 3 duels.

[CapnBloodbeard]

And doing things like being able to walk, collect a head marker and drop a scheme marker in the same turn......

[MR TORGUE]

I love bishop. Sometimes you can spring him on players who havn't experienced him before; as they only expect quadruple-fisting levels of pain to come from people with relic hammers or those that sit on 50mm bases - Then bishop rocks up and double flurries all over their face...

Also he's the answer to late game horsemen by targeting their WP...

Doesn't hurt that he has an amazing sculpt too...

[Adran]

Stubborn on the horsemen goes a fair way to making him not so good at taking them out that way

[BigStick]

I agree with everyone Bishop is great and i have a soft spot for his old sculpture too. If you were to choose a 10ss model which would it be? 

[CapnBloodbeard]

I've been favouring Strongarm Suit lately....

[Eclipse]

Differently from Strongarm Suit who has more concentrated power and staying presence, Bishop is more versatile and easier to Tailor (lol) to the situation. He is at his best in Ten Thunders, actually  From the way I see Outcasts the preferred/standard type of models for the faction are the specialists that fill a specific role proficiently, and Bishop, well... He can potentially fill many roles, but not at the same time.

[daniello_s]

Bishop's weak point is his 1'' engagement range but apart of this he is really good. And it is always good to have a choice such as Taelor, Strongarm or Bishop

[Munindk]

I could see Bishop being usefull for ressers and NB too, Seamus and Pandora likes people who fail WP tests.

[CapnBloodbeard]

On 20/04/2016 at 5:22 AM, Eclipse said:

Differently from Strongarm Suit who has more concentrated power and staying presence, Bishop is more versatile and easier to Tailor (lol) to the situation. He is at his best in Ten Thunders, actually  From the way I see Outcasts the preferred/standard type of models for the faction are the specialists that fill a specific role proficiently, and Bishop, well... He can potentially fill many roles, but not at the same time.

In your view, what are the various roles Bishop fills?

This sort of strategy is part of list building or ensuring you have set tasks for your models on the table which probably doesn't get talked about enough.

[Eclipse]

Bishop is used when you need to flexible, rather than have a dedicated model. He is strong when you have to perforate a model with good defenses such as Izamu for example. In addition, he can also take out a key enemy model for a turn, or even run schemes due to Swift (extra AP) - which means that he can easily push an important section of the board (for example the Turf marker area) and then go to the flank to run schemes and kill an enemy flanker or two (IF he can catch them, be sure to make use of his great charge as the 1" engagement range is rather lacking).
Also the ability to target Df or Wp is pretty neat if your crews supports either type of attack. Pandora and Seamus will probably love his (albeit expensive) Ml6 or Ml7 attacks vs Wp, if you put something on - to Wp and Ca with Yin he would be even happier. Alternatively, if you used the Shadow Emissary's (0) ability that says -enemy models with Burning reduce Df by up to -2- then you will find it easier to hit with Bishop.
Just remember three things: He does -not- have ranged attacks (so might need some cover fire); he is flexible enough to change what he is doing in the middle of the game (just try to plan for it); most importantly, he can be a silver bullet against a specific model or two you want to counter - but might need help getting to that particular model (pushes, Obey, luring said target model).

[Vorbeck]

I use him almost every game with the Viks. I often run the viks, bishop and another big hitter like Ashes in which case bishop is the lowest threat of the four of them and really shines. When people leave him alone he can go through a crew or get you any scheme or strat that you need.

 

Due to his defensive trigger it is very difficult for minions to easily take him out without suffering damage due to df 6. 

[CapnBloodbeard]

You don't find running 2 big hitters leaves you with too few activations?

While Vik of Blood is a 'free' model, the sisters are so upgrade intensive that the saving is almost negated that way anyway.  so with 2 big hitters, you can easily end up with only 6 activations.  

[Trample]

I used him this week with Marcus. Bishop with Imbued Protection (Df7 and 13 stones) and Marcus with Feral and Hunger). Marcus was able to howl, turn Bishop into a beast and alpha him. Bishop can then activate when it's your turn again. So Bishop is able to take 6 AP attacking your opponents -2 WP. Then, if your Blessed of December with Pack Leader is nearby you can have another attack! 

Probably too much for one little gimmick, but fun. 

[Vorbeck]

If you have Viks, bishop, ashes and Malifaux child you have enough stones left to have up to 8 activations in total if you take some smaller models like the effigy, void wretches even ronin.

If you want you can get another big hitter in there but then you will almost certainly be stuck with 7 activations rather than 8. 

I agree the viks are upgrade intense and I normally run them with 7 points of upgrades which and at least 4 stones which means blood could be said to have cost 10.

The last game I played with the viks I played them with child, effigy, bishop, strongarm and desolation engine. Strat was stake a claim but with close deployment. I can't remember all the scheme pool but I took quick murder and leave your mark. Idea was to get into the enemy crew quickly and take them out before they could start accomplishing schemes. I still had 7 activations which is low but I didn't find it handicapped me too much. I won the game 7-2 by denying them the chance to score points more than going after my points. 

[MR TORGUE]

On 20/04/2016 at 8:22 PM, Eclipse said:

He can potentially fill many roles HOLES, but not at the same time. Definitely at the same time if he wants!!!