Anti-Gremlin Strats

[Huwge]

Gremlins are emerging as comfortably the most dominant faction in my meta right now. Contrary to what people may think, I think this largely comes down to the fact that some of our best players main Gremlins. As such, I really need to get thinking about some contingency models that can slip into my outcast crews specifically to deal with Gremlins. They're one of my most played factions and they're the only one I haven't beaten yet!

 

So with that in mind, what do some of you guys use models-wise or tactics-wise to best deal with Gremlins?

Amanozako is a model i dont own, but have considered, since dangerous terrain is good against bayou grems & pigs, she's very fast and she can consume the dreaded francois. Any other thoughts?

[daniello_s]

If you expect Pigapult take Hans with Scout the Field and try to remove Pigapult at the start of turn 1

[Ludvig]

Gremlins have so many different styles. Brewmaster, Ulix and Som'er usually play a bit differently.

Any particular lists or masters?

[Munindk]

Taelors "Welcome to Malifaux" could be useful against Ulix and summoning Som'er.

[Ludvig]

2 minutes ago, Munindk said:

Taelors "Welcome to Malifaux" could be useful against Ulix and summoning Som'er.

Can work, be mindful of them tying her up and placing something in the way though, she still needs to be able to do a legal charge.

Blasts work against gremlin-spams if that immunity-granting lady isn't too close.

If you anticipate Ulix you need to fill your crew with models that can take around 8-10 damage so you can survive the horror that is shot in the rear.

[Jafar]

46 minutes ago, daniello_s said:

If you expect Pigapult take Hans with Scout the Field and try to remove Pigapult at the start of turn 1

GREAT IDEA! I was troubled with pigapult, my local player uses that tactic with Lenny and piglets, now I have answer

Thank you you Sir!

[Red Moon Head]

Gremlin player here.

Levi I've played against once and he caused me some trouble, destroying ashes to pull himself forawrd then shooting into by bayous after cutting himself and stonign for the trigger to pop abomination up right in my crowd of bayous. Hit before they get a chance to spawn too many.

Gremlins (at leats when i use them) like to stick nearby each other. Every crew I use are pretty synergy reliant with things like merris, old cranky, lenny, slop haulers, do it like dis from skeeters and somer. This has left them pretty vulnerable to the viks. More than once I've lost half+ crew to a catapulting, oathkept, whirlwinding vik.

Failing that Trapper or two to take out the slop haulers early on? The grem player is less inclined to reckless every turn if they can;t get those wounds back.

If I'm playing against gremlins I usually know I have to hit them hard and fast otherwise they are going to overwhelm me in numebrs or have better board position due to most of them having reckless by about turn 3. So get in there and take out some key models before they get too much to handle.

[D6Damager]

As a Gremlin player I would say snipers are a good place to start.  We also don't like it when you're immune to blasts or are causing lots of WP duels. Slow helps mitigate vs. reckless.

Gremlins rely on key models such as Slop Haulers, Lenny, Merris, or Trixiebelle to pull off summons, provide buffs/healing or high damage. Start removing these key pieces and the Gremlin game plan is not as reliable. Once you see the gremlin crew identify the support pieces right away.

For Outcasts specifically, Von Schill + the usual freikorp/hannah counters Wong or pigapult nicely. Tara "Killjoy bomb" is pretty effective vs. Ophelia and Somer gunlines (as is making sure you are playing with enough terrrain). Hamelin is a better summoner than anything we can bring if you want to out activate. And a well-played Leveticus is pretty hard for all factions to stop from a scheme & strategies standpoint.

Outcasts have everything they need to ruin a Gremlin players day it as long as you brought it.

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

I've only played against Gremlins once and I got destroyed. Everytime I did anything, Squeel away......that was playing Viks, the only thing I killed all game was Taelor in turn 4, the Viks just couldn't do anything.  charge, hit 1, squeel away, heal, shoot back.  Cool story bro, I'm just going to go punch a wall.....I don't think I made an attack on anything worthwhile without him doing squeel

 

So, I figured....don't charge.  Just don't charge, unless you know you have the damage output to make it worthwhile.  Because a charge will be a 2AP single attack all too often.  If Viks, then bump up the min damage.  I reckon shooting is the way to go.  Don't waste time flurrying.  Somebody like bishop could be good to paralyse the opponent.

Blasts will help.  Outcasts have enough trouble getting out activated by any normal army, let alone gremlins.  Gremlins are a problem....I suppose trying to pick your schemes/strats will help.  Convict labour sounds like a big no-no......anything with table quarters?  

 

but I don't really know how to get past the sheer weight of numbers, particularly if the summoner stays out of reach.  von Schill with oathkeeper can do 2 charges in one turn, so you can leap through the mess, though you'll probably only land one hit on the master and von Schill may well die, so that probably won't work.

If you can get him near the green mass, his 3AP 'shoot everything' can be useful....

i feel like you want to gear your crew towards having more AP...so fewer of those amazing 10SS models

I feel like Sue's ring of fire could be good....

 

I can't even say 'play to the schemes/strats' without thinking that the activation numbers have a huge advantage on every single one.  

[SlackerLM]

Trappers for lynchpin models. Lazurus for groupings and bunches. If your good (or lucky) Rusty Alyce for some counter summons. Hannah, Librarians and Abominations for disruption.

[Freman]

Is there any way to give Alyce reactivate in an Outcast list? Better still if she can do it with Von Schill as the master.

[SlackerLM]

The Hodgepodge Emissary has a reactivate upgrade. The downside is you sacrifice the reactivated model at the end of its reactivation.

[Jordon]

I find that Tara is a great model to harass Lenny with her glimpse the void trigger. Getting him off the board dramatically decreases their damage out via dumb luck as well as the pseudo armour. Since she has such a good Df trigger against shooting, I find most won't bother shooting her at all, which helps keep her alive.

Also as mentioned, her beast bomb tactic can really throw off key activations, however don't bank on doing a ton of damage to masters because their squeal trigger can foil assassination runs.  

 

[Huwge]

Very good stuff guys! Thanks for the great responses.

 

I will be picking up Levi soon so I will give him a crack, running him with A&D.

I am a big Tara fan and agree she'a great for shutting down Lenny. Beast bomb is ok, but i don't feel like it's the greatest against good gremlin players because of all their cheap bodies to block and francois.

I also find squeel extremely troublesome. Som'er is the mist common master I see and the one I have the most difficulty with. Never played brewy or Ulix. Definitely agree that going ham early and getting stuck in should work. Only problem is that can be tough with a lot of blocking terrain or corner deployment. Also squeel is awful.

slop haulers are usually my priority target number one, along with the common maeris and snipers are indeed good for this. Unfortunately I've played double slop haulers a few times lately and it's very tough to stop them standing behind a gremlin wall and healing up everyone as well as themselves.

Gotta get me a lazerus! The model sucks though so I'll want to convert one. Only thing that's stopped me so far.

Anyone had any experience with Amano? I particularly have massive trouble dealing with Francois. If he has stilts and dirty cheater + stones, he is just broken. Maybe anamo's gobble up could work? Or Levi I guess...

[SlackerLM]

Just remember that Dirty Cheater only works during the models activation, not outside of It. Pin him down with sniper fire.

[Jordon]

I actually found the nothing beast to be a great counter to Francois. First off, he is incorporeal and so he can't really be "blocked" by other models. He's also tall enough that you should always be able to see them and thus always be able to charge. 

His Ca attacks get around both the "stilts" upgrade as well as his Df trigger. His 3" range will mean if he does somehow manage to survive, he will have to waist Ap walking up to the NB. Incorporeal makes it so that if he wants to dumb luck, he'll be taking the exact same amount of damage to himself. Lastly his damage, while swingy, if you can get those moderates, he'll drop in no time and you should be getting in 4 attacks with fast and Ca expert. 

It may not be an equal trade as a stalk Francois is 7 and the NB is 10. However I rarely ever see Francois taken without upgrades and even still, I think getting rid of him is definitely worth the sacrifice. 

[SlackerLM]

Bishop can also be a good model to take. He can target Df or Wl, and since Squeel is a Df trigger, go for will. Once he is up in the mix, his own Df trigger will also help to whittle down the gremlin crew size.

[Huwge]

Great suggestions! The only time I've managed to face off against francois with the nothing beast it was against wong. My opponent won initiative, made francois glowy and then took the nb off with one shot. To add insult to injury, he then took a ronin off in one shot in the same activation. Turn 1... Hatred grows

Francois does have wp6 or 7 (for some reason), but I didn't realise he didnt get squeel on wp (I think Som'er still does). That makes this a really good shot. I would swap the nb or bishop for francois any day... Which is probably indicative of his power.

I like to charge with the beasty and then focus attack (when he's fast). Really helps to get that severe 7 or at least moderate 5 damage. If he keeps hitting min 2 he's not really worth it imo.

Edit: are u sure wp based attacks get around stilts? I thought you could simply discard them for damage prevention (bit like void shield). If he can use those + soulstones for damage prevention (which of course bishop and nb can't) then it's very unlikely he'll go down. Meanwhile retaliation can do 10 wounds quite comfortably if your opponent is packing a high card or two...

[Jordon]

5 hours ago, Huwge said:

Edit: are u sure wp based attacks get around stilts? I thought you could simply discard them for damage prevention (bit like void shield). If he can use those + soulstones for damage prevention (which of course bishop and nb can't) then it's very unlikely he'll go down. Meanwhile retaliation can do 10 wounds quite comfortably if your opponent is packing a high card or two...

Abandon Stilts!: This model may discard this upgrade to reduce the damage suffered from a Ml attack action to 0 

The NB attacks with Ca not Ml, so he is unaffected by stilts  

[SlackerLM]

Attack Wp to get around Squeel. Focus fire on him to burn through his resources. Hans can force upgrades off. Use terrain to your advantage. 

[Dogmantra]

She's been mentioned already, but Rusty Alyce is really good for her 3" no charge aura - it really shuts down pigs/roosters and some of the scary Gremlin beatsticks like Francois & Mancha Roja. And the worst part is that she has bulletproof too!

Always bring some Wp targeting stuff, particularly because Lenny exists and his Wp is super trivial to hit and therefore he's very easy to inconvenience or kill. Also Skeeters & Piglets.

In addition to the tricks for getting around Squeel listed so far, indirect damage is really good - Gremlins tend to have pretty good Df, so blasts or pulses can hit them without any recourse and also stops them getting Squeel (even Som'er, who gets it for even looking at an enemy normally), just make sure to take Merris out first.

[KrazyIvan]

I've got a couple of strong Gremlin players in my local meta; here are some tactics that I've used against them:

• Trappers (and to a lesser extent Hans): It is very rare that I see a Gremlin list without a couple of Slop Haulers to fuel Reckless. Trappers are an easy way to deal with them, particularly if you have a Master or Henchman with I Pay Better. Even if you can't get a site line on one of the Slop Haulers merely having the Trapper can control where they go as they try to stay out of line of site. If you put the Trapper on elevated terrain, preferably HT3 or higher, then you can take advantage of the elevation rules and essentially shoot anything on the board, terrain be damned.Beyond Slop Haulers Merris is a prime target because of her ability to grant blast immunity.
   
• Levi: Levi should be able to kill 1-2 gremlins per turn. If you take Desolate Soul you should be able to proc plenty of Abomination summons most of the time. The key is resist the urge to go after high value Gremlin in favor of Piglets, Bayou Gremlins, or Moon Shinobi. It's more important to get multiple Abominations near those high value targets than spending AP trying to kill them. Should you find yourself in a situation where there are no minions about, and you are in charge range of a high value Gremlin then by all means use the Levi super charge and wipe it off the board (Mancha Roja, Lenny and Francois in particular).
   
• Rusty Alyce: Take Desolate Soul and summon Abominations off kills, same as Levi. Beyond that help 3" no charge bubble can stop Gremlin beaters from getting the most out of their AP. Furthermore the bubble stops the Pig Charge.
   
• Taelor: Three words - Welcome to Malifaux. With a 9" threat range on a charge if you can get Taelor midfield without too much impassable terrain she can pretty effecitve blunt any summoning that the Gremlins might get up to. Additionally, using her 2 AP attack rather than two 1 AP attacks spread the Gremlin out so that they outside of buff bubbles put out by Lenny, Som'er, Merris and Old Major. You have to support Taelor to get the most of her however, so consider keeping a Freikorps Librarian close by. Taelor's also pretty good for taking down the odd Whiskey Golem because of her Relic Hammer.
   
• Abominations: In my opinion Abominations are the single best tar pit in the game, point for point. For anti-Gremlin operations you want to summon them close to enemy models in as large a number as possible. The primary reason for this is their ability to prevent enemy models from taking 0 actions, of which Grelmins have ton. Next is the suit stripping bubble that can force your opponent to play more cards from their hand, or spend soulstones, to continue to summon (which means fewer damage mitigation expendatures and fewer cards in had for really important duels). Abominations are do passive damage to an area, and since Gremlin bunch up a lot of time the value of Abomination aura damage is magnified. Having Abominations in their midst will almost certainly force the Gremlin player to spend AP dealing with them. Its not a bad idea to use high cards from your hand to help the Abominations stay put for a turn or two because of how much they will likely disrupt your opponent's plans.
   
• Lazarus: Rapid fire grenade launcher. If caught in the open you chain all kinds of blasts, and they have pretty good damage. You want to make sure that you are targeting a tougher model so that it's doesn't die before you get off all your shots however. Also, this won't work if Merris around so take her out first.
   
• Killjoy: Kill a Piglet or a Bayou, pop Killjoy, profit. Seriously though, having Killjoy pop up near high value Gremlins will throw a wrench in the Gremlin works, guaranteed.
   
• Hannah: Good all around model, but particularly useful for burying troublesome enemy models like Mancha Roja, Lenny or Francois. Bury the model then walk on top of the Void Marker. Doing so will ensure that there is no legal placement for the model to un-bury at the end of the turn, which will force it pop back up in the Gremlin player's deployment zone (and hopefully out of position). Repeat as necessary.
   
• The Viks: The whirlwind is the whirlwind. Gremlins tend to be a little fragile so they are a little more susceptible to it. Be wary of overextending however. If you don't kill enough the numbers game is not in your favor and you will likely get overwhelmed.
   
• Von Schill: Lots of people look at Von Schill as kind of 'meh', but his 3 AP action allows him to shoot every legal target withing range, and his Clockwork Seeker has a good damage profile. If you can get him into position is can cause absolute havoc on squishy minions.

[SpiralngCadavr]

From a Gremlin player, I'd suggest blasts, pushes (can't think of many outcasts have access to, though) and taking out support, since a lot of gremlin mileage comes from clustering near buffs. Also, at least some range since trying to chew through melee to get to the support will probably not end well.

[Huwge]

22 hours ago, Jordon said:

Abandon Stilts!: This model may discard this upgrade to reduce the damage suffered from a Ml attack action to 0 

The NB attacks with Ca not Ml, so he is unaffected by stilts  

well spotted!

 

thanks for the awesome replies. Im getting me some levi and lazerus i recon. Those abominations sound like really logical counters to the bayou spam. Great tips CrazyIvan!

[daniello_s]

Levi + 2/3 Belles + 2 Flesh Constructs. Lure it and then either kill it with Levi or swallow with Constructs