Shilling for Schill: Babby's First Freikorps List - Feedback Requested

[Surrealistik]

Sup all? New player putting together his first 50 SS Von Shill list soliciting feedback and recommendations:

Old List: http://bythetree.net/?f=5&s=50&l=62|69,90&m=48|0|*48|0|*26|0|*50|0|*38|0|*52|0|64

Basically murderball the crap out of stuff with an assload of blast templates and long ranged firepower, rip and tear in melee cause you're good at that as well, hand out free Focus with I Pay More (fueled by Surge trigger card draw) especially on Trappers, and keep everyone alive and healed up via Von Schill's aura, Librarians, Steam Trunk and self-heals. Win via superior durability and overwhelming force at all ranges. Engage At Will is swapped out as needed vis a vis the enemy crew and objectives.

EDIT: Updated list: http://bythetree.net/?f=5&s=50&l=62|69,90,62&t=33|1|0|&m=48|0|*48|0|*50|0|*50|0|*38|0|*52|0|

[Jafar]

As for a new player, i think it's good list.

I don't know schemes and what models you have, but it might help you:

- You have only 1 minion - Trapper, in some schemes it may be dangerous
- Vanessa doesn't like to be in heat of direct fight, so her upgrade it's not soo good as it may look.
- Two librarians for me is too much, you can switch one of them for steam trunk and abomination (card draw from Lazarus), or steam trunk and Effigy (cheap scheme runner and SS draw for Von Schill). But I prefer to play at least 8 models in crew, so it depends on your playstale and your local meta.
- in long term you can try to switch one Librarian and Vanessa for Hannah and Freikorps man

[Freman]

Two Librarians seems like quite a lot. I've never needed more than one. Two Trappers on the other hand...

The Specialist is situational. He's slower than the rest of your crew so he'll end up spending most of his AP moving into position, Lazarus can be made to move an extra 4" a turn by Vanessa so isn't in quite the same situation.

I wouldn't take Mark of Shez'uul on Vanessa. Her main thing is supporting Lazarus and hurling magic blasts, especially if you can get her to the centreline. Mine spends a lot of time there.

Freikorpsmen are reasonable scheme runners, at least by Outcast standards.

I'd suggest something like.

Von Schill (4SS)

The shirt comes off

Survivalist

Steam Trunk (it's a very handy little tool)

Lazarus

Vanessa

Freikorps Librarian

Freikorps Trapper

Freikorps Trapper

Freikorpsman

That gives you eight models, two sources of healing (the Trunk and Librarian), and additional healing for three characters (shirt on Schill, Vanessa's (2) action, and Lazarus's (0) heal) and some hitting power, albeit mainly ranged.

 

[Surrealistik]

Thanks for the recommendations guys.

I actually had 2 Trappers in my original list, and definitely considered a 2nd + Steam Trunk as an alternate to a 2nd Librarian contingent on the terrain and objectives. Ultimately I defaulted to the 2nd Librarian due to the insane flexibility it has: massive damage output potential (in both ranged and melee), telling incorporeal to sit down, heal synergies with Von Schill's aura and Survivalist, even more blast template spam and card generation to feed I Pay More, Lazarus auto-fire and such. Do you  guys really feel I'm overvaluing this?

Agreed that Mark of Shez'uul is questionable: it was easily and by far the purchase I had the most doubt about, hence the mention of swapping it in the OP. I do like its potential though in easily dispatching enemies that close to melee, particularly durable beatsticks and for finishing off HtK models, but I agree in balance: there's probably better things to buy for the SS.

As for the Specialist, I really like his ability to ignore cover and the sheer versatility/condition negation he brings to the table. You might be right about his slowness being a factor in practice, even if the 1 inch of difference doesn't seem like much to me. Overall I'm most tempted to drop him and the Mark for a 2nd Trapper, a 3rd Von Schill upgrade of choice, and the Steam Trunk; something like this: http://bythetree.net/?f=5&s=50&l=62|69,90,62&t=33|1|0|&m=48|0|*48|0|*50|0|*50|0|*38|0|*52|0| (Obviously Engage At Will can be anything; I do like its synergies with the Steam Trunk, Laz, Schill and Vanessa though!).

Definitely want to keep I Pay More on Schill. I used this in a smaller SS game to devastating effect, especially when paired with the Trapper.

 

[Freman]

Engage at Will has great synergy with Rusty Alyce with From the Aether. A 7 and a 10 allows her to pop out an Abomination a turn so long as she is within 6" of Von Schill.

I like your second list better than the first.

[Surrealistik]

Yeah, that's an interesting combo; the probability of generating the Abom is roughly sub-20 outside of command cards, but the chance of free minions every turn for 0 action cost is hard to argue with for sure.

[farabaugh100]

I'd switch Engage at Will with The Shirt Comes Off.  Also Every list is better with more Oath Keeper.  Hannah is worth her weight in gold.  The Strongarm Suit is good too.  The challenging thing about Freikorps is that they have so many good 10+ models.  It's hard to balance when to use what.  

[Surrealistik]

Engage At Will can be basically anything as stated; that slot is totally up in the air in truth and depends on the match up and schemes/strats.

I did consider Hannah; the main thing I dislike about her is the fact that despite _devastating_ melee, she loses a lot of utility at range since she can only throw out fire power once per turn minus triggers which makes her a little cost inefficient in my view (though to be fair, she _can_ focus prior to the attack). Strongarms are solid, fully agree, and I have used them successfully in smaller games, but it's hard to find a decisive niche for them in the default list vs the other options. Would definitely consider both though as swap ins depending on the enemy faction, terrain and scheme/strats, particularly vs a more melee heavy faction.

Will consider and try out Oathkeepers; see how they work out.

Fully agree with you though on the fact that Freikorps is full of enticing models. Definitely hard to pick and choose amongst them.

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

On 3/25/2016 at 6:53 AM, farabaugh100 said:

I'd switch Engage at Will with The Shirt Comes Off.  Also Every list is better with more Oath Keeper.  Hannah is worth her weight in gold.  The Strongarm Suit is good too.  The challenging thing about Freikorps is that they have so many good 10+ models.  It's hard to balance when to use what.  

There is that.  I found at a tournament that I wound up with only 6 models on the table way too often

 

Hey OP - who have you got running schemes on your list?  Vanessa gets squashed very easily, and I don't really think you want von Schill or Lazarus spending their time on schemes.

Why do you want Vanessa anyway?  I've never used her in a Freikorps list personally.  Sure, looking at the top 3 cards is okay, can be awesome, can be useless, but her damage output is just too low to use her as an attacking role, at a 2AP heal?  Yeah, right!!

Librarian not only picks up the buffs from von Schill but has a cheaper heal action (I like leaving her out of sight and mainly healing von Schill, because she's also a pretty easy target) - and is cheaper overall.  With armor and hard to kill, she should take at least 3AP to take down - but she will get targeted.

[Surrealistik]

21 minutes ago, CapnBloodbeard said:

Hey OP - who have you got running schemes on your list?  Vanessa gets squashed very easily, and I don't really think you want von Schill or Lazarus spending their time on schemes.

Why do you want Vanessa anyway?  I've never used her in a Freikorps list personally.  Sure, looking at the top 3 cards is okay, can be awesome, can be useless, but her damage output is just too low to use her as an attacking role, at a 2AP heal?  Yeah, right!!

Librarian not only picks up the buffs from von Schill but has a cheaper heal action (I like leaving her out of sight and mainly healing von Schill, because she's also a pretty easy target) - and is cheaper overall.  With armor and hard to kill, she should take at least 3AP to take down - but she will get targeted.

Trappers are decent runners; suppose I could sub in Void Wretches or The Winged Plague for that too.

Vanessa is there to pair up with Lazarus. Not sure what you mean by low damage output though between Command Construct and a Ca7-9 2/4/4 spread that can tack on blasts, or draw cards to pitch to I Pay More/cheats.

[CapnBloodbeard]

Decent runners?  Their movement is pretty ordinary.  Sure, you might be able to deploy them in a spot where they can drop a marker next to themselves, but that's partly board dependent, as if they're too far upfield they tend to get taken out pretty quickly.  

 

2/4/4 damage spread is a bit on the low side.  Sure, CA9 is ridiculous on the centre line- which could also leave her more exposed than you want.  The potential blast or card draw is nice, if you hit the right suit.  I forgot about command construct - without that I always feel like there's better places to spend 8SS.  She doesn't attack particularly well but has some triggers.., she doesn't survive well, she isn't a good healer....she does a little bit of a few things

[Khoregard]

When I make a list for schill, I always start with the 10ss model and kinda work my way out from there. There are 3 choices in house (so to speak) with Laz, Hannah, and the SAS. Each of them work exceedingly well at certain angles, but of the 3 I prefer to use Hannah the most as she is just hard to remove and has 3" reach. The specialist certainly doesn't get any love on the forums here, but is a great candidate for Scout the Field as he definitely needs the extra walk and as he natively ignores cover, allowing a LoS-proof action can really get his toolbox to work when you need it. Heh, come to think of it I should try a triple scout list with Schill, the SAS, and a Specialist all with scout the field, and two trappers. SHENANIGANS!

Anyways I haven't tried a list akin to the one you listed, but my friend absolutely melts my face with Oathkeeper Lazarus and Vanessa. I believe he ran the two in a sisters crew though, and also had the student of conflict to apply fast to lazarus as well at the top of the game to make certain he could set up a firing lane.

[MR TORGUE]

I often find that Taelor and Johan make it into my von schill lists pretty much 90% of the time. 

They both have hard to kill so can extend out of the Schill bubble without being concerned for their safety - also they bring big, smashy relic hammer pain with them. 
Further I notice in your lists that, other than Von Schill, there is little in the form of armour piercing attacks. I would always try and have two models in a crew that can deal with armour - just in case Joss or any other big bad constructs roll up on the other side of the board.