Manxfaux Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 As well as a free turn 1 nimble, not requiring a los to the target for an action actually sounds pretty lethal. I hope my logic is correct, but that means the potential ability to charge around corners and 'blocking' models and surprise blind rapid fires at hidden models because the charge/rapid fire is the action affected by scout the field, the attacks are a consequence. Does anyone actually use this? I never see it mentioned but seems like Rusty, convict gunslingers and a certain robot could easily make good use of this, and people like Taelor and Johan, with their huge engagement ranges but slow speed, could pull off some game changing charges. 1ss for an upgrade that breaks the game mechanics for one action? Seems pretty reasonable to me. Ps Just thought about the strongarm. He could literally charge anything in his threat bubble, talk about board control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 It doesn't work with rapid fire, because the three attacks require LoS as well, and Scout the Field does nothing to help with that. It does work quite well with charges however, and a friend of mine likes to take it on Strongarm Suit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxfaux Posted February 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 I thought the actions caused by actions rule would mean not requiring los would only dissipate once the actions caused by rapid fire ended, ie the third shot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myyrä Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 16 minutes ago, Manxfaux said: I thought the actions caused by actions rule would mean not requiring los would only dissipate once the actions caused by rapid fire ended, ie the third shot. Scout the Field merely gives you permission to declare the action without needing LoS. It doesn't do anything to benefit the actions generated by that action. Just like being able to declare a charge action does not mean you will automatically be able to resolve both of the actions. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordon Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 I think the problem with Scout the Field is that it's competing directly with Oathkeeper. The ability itself is not bad at all, but the free nimble on turn one is more restive than just getting a general AP whenever you want. The no LOS portion of the ability can have its uses, but as mentioned, it can be a little difficult to use on many models. In a world without Oathkeeper, I think you would see this upgrade a lot more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the proxy union Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 It's a good show of force upgrade. you get good movement utility out of it and you are much less likely to need to pop it for effect than oathkeeper. probably use 1-2 of them if I plan to go for the show of force scheme. -Proxy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxfaux Posted February 28, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 I thought the wording was more similar to Levi's channel tbh, which works throughout his charge action. So what about a convict's trigger happy trigger? If the original shot is fired using StF can the triggered shot ignore los too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solkan Posted February 28, 2016 Report Share Posted February 28, 2016 It's all because of the degenerate charge scenarios. 0. Charge a model and your first attack kills it A Rail Golem is hoping to build up some easy by beating up a moleman. Through amazing luck, flips a 13 and the red joker for damage, so it one-shots the moleman on the first swing. The second melee attack can't be declared because the target is now out of line of sight and range--it's dead. Same sort of thing happens if a defensive trigger move the charge target out of line of sight or out of range. 1. Charging a model you can see but won't be able to attack Model A can see Model B through a gap in a wall (there's a deliberate physical 15mm gap between two wall terrain pieces), and can reach a point within engagement range of Model B. But from the point that A can reach, it can't see B because there's a solid wall between the two models. So because of the gap between the walls, A can declare a charge against B, but won't be able to perform the melee attacks. It's still a legal charge for A, because the requirement is "engagement range", not "become engaged with the target". 2. the Know the Terrain version If you remove the gap between the walls and grant A the Know the Terrain effect, you get into the same sort of degenerate situation. This time, to get around the lack of line of sight, A uses Quote Know the Terrain: Immediately before declaring an Action, this model may discard this Upgrade. If it does, this model does not need LoS to its target to take the Action (cover is applied as normal). and discards the upgrade before declaring the Charge action. So now it gets to take the charge even though it can't see B. It moves, gets into engagement range, and now it's in the same situation as the model that saw B through the gap between the walls. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapnBloodbeard Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Don't follow - why wouldn't he be able to attack if there is LOS? Trying to remember is STF 1 SS or 2 SS? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxfaux Posted February 29, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Just 1ss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapnBloodbeard Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 Cool. I don't know that I would say oathkeeper is better, just STF is more situation-specific. If you really want that initial walk, then great. I don't often find use for 'no LOS needed to take action'. I suppose it's a bit situation specific really, I don't know if it's useful enough to get excited over taking. Others may disagree. I rarely take Scout the Field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 10 hours ago, the proxy union said: It's a good show of force upgrade. you get good movement utility out of it and you are much less likely to need to pop it for effect than oathkeeper. probably use 1-2 of them if I plan to go for the show of force scheme. -Proxy I did that. I took hunting party and show of force, with Scout the Field on Lazarus and Sue, and Oath Keeper on Vanessa, Viktoria of Blood, and a Librarian. My only minion/peon in that list was my Malifaux Child who hid behind a building and cast Sisters of Fury all game. My opponent was playing Lucius, which meant there were lots of minions to kill, although Blood did most of the damage. Lazarus did manage to get off a blast on a couple of Riflemen though, so that was nice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azrrael Posted February 29, 2016 Report Share Posted February 29, 2016 It is a more situational upgrade then most but one of my favorite people to take it on like the strong arm is jack daw since incorporeal allows for the same type of thing where your opponent think they are age behind a buildin but really not. Honestly if terrain is very thick then it has it's uses if not oath keeper prob better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoregard Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Hans gets this more often than anyone else in my games, but Vanessa is second place because I want her on the verge of centreline action as soon as possible, if it's safe to do so. Sue with this upgrade comes to play whenever a hungering darkness is imminent. Because I'm that guy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freman Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 Even a Henchman totem can be killed by Sue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manxfaux Posted March 1, 2016 Author Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 3 hours ago, Khoregard said: Sue with this upgrade comes to play whenever a hungering darkness is imminent. Because I'm that guy! Nice! Hadn't spotted that. Shame he'll usually just bury. And if not it's probably because they took frame for murder. Still, anything that messes with how your opponent thought things were going to go down has to be a good thing. Lots of other nice targets that can be hard to get hold of too (looking at you wonder-weasel, waifs, pigapult). I suppose I have been playing Tara recently so oathkeeper's fast is less important and using the NB (pinged with fast of course) to pretty much charge anything on the board using StF should be a brutal kick in the unmentionables to any opponent. I will have to try it out (unfortunately there is no Malifaux community here atm so I only play a bit on Vassal). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurouni Benshin Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 I honestly prefer it to Oath Keeper. Granted the benefits to both are situational, but I weigh being able to Charge without needing LOS higher on the "benefits" totem pole than "Finish The Job". Both provide an extra AP once per game (albeit in different ways) and have a secondary function when sacrificed. In the end, I usually don't take either, but if I had the soulstones to spare, I'd consider one or the other depending on Schemes and Strategies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khoregard Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 It's hard to do, but if you can visualize what you're using the extra ap for, it will help you use the upgrade more effectively. If your just using the fast from oathkeeper to reposition with a walk ap, then it boils down to know the terrain vs. Finish the job. Finish the job is a fantastic way to score plant explosives, for instance. Models like the nothing beast or Taelor with their giant reach will have a hay day with the ability to declare charges from relative safety. Just bear in mind you still require LoS after your charge move! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rurouni Benshin Posted March 1, 2016 Report Share Posted March 1, 2016 The other thing about "Finish the Job" that I don't like is that it requires the model to die in order for it to trigger. I usually don't plan a game where I need to consciously lose a model (save for only when Frame for Murder is on the table). Just seems a bit counter intuitive, to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CapnBloodbeard Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 I think it's something you wouldn't really depend on, but it can be a benefit if a model happens to die. If you model is engaged where it needs to be....either you kill your opposing model, or it dies and drop a scheme marker. win-win. Worst case scenario you can shoot your own model on the final turn if you need to drop that marker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patzer Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 I really like Scout the Field. Especially with Lazarus, Misaki, Rusty Alyce, and Strongarm Suit. Misaki loves the first turn push, and the mind games she can pull off with being able to charge anything really within 15" is stellar. Strongarm likes it for similar reasons. I have mainly played SaS with Daw who can push it about a ton on turn 1. This have lead to a handful of killed Riders and other bigger models on turn 1-2. Lazarus loves to get a first turn addition to his movement, and a Focus shot without needing LoS from Laza is pretty brutal. Rusty with both Oathkeeper and Scout the Field is a formidable foe. She is out right scary. I would recommend any Outcast crew to add her with those upgrades! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lusciousmccabe Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Scout the field is golden in Stake a claim, but usually on top of oathkeepers. I like it on Ama No Zako and Nix since they have easy ways to ignore terrain in a charge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 And still no one has posted the model on which this upgrade can really become broken... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patzer Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 15 minutes ago, Joel said: And still no one has posted the model on which this upgrade can really become broken... Which are, and why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Posted March 2, 2016 Report Share Posted March 2, 2016 Lol, I'll be putting my idea on the tabletop tomorrow - I'll update after that ? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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