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Misaki set list


Patzer

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Hi all! 

I am currently running Misaki with a seven model crew. There are three reasons for this. First, I am trying to get a grip on a more aggressive play-style. Hence why I choose Misaki as my master. Misaki has the potential of being a real threat to the opponent from turn one and especially on turn two. The tactic turns the game upside-down, at least for me who has been quite a cagey play for the whole five turns kind of player. Second, I want to become better at playing out-activated. So playing with fewer models will help with that. Lastly, I want to be better at positioning. This crew needs to be careful since there staying power comes from being able to kill opposing threats, which means that I need to be cautious with where I place my models. 

The basic crew with some comments: 

Ten Thunders
50ss Crew

Misaki -- 4ss
 +Misdirection - 2ss
 +Stalking Bisento - 2ss
 +Cutpurse***

Shang - 3ss****

Johan - 7ss** 
 +Hidden Agenda - 0ss*

Sensei Yu - 9ss
 +Wandering River Style - 2ss*****

Shadow Effigy - 4ss

Shadow Emissary - 10ss
 +Conflux Of Thunder - 0ss

Yamaziko - 7ss
 +Smoke Grenades - 1ss*

*Smoke Grenades can be switched out for Hidden Agenda if I want to either give Johan Recalled Training or have an additional Soulstone. Yamaziko can also be switched out for either Yin or a Samurai. 
**Johan is in over Chiaki because the crew would lack hitting power otherwise. She can possibly be switched in for some strategies, as well as the Pathfinder. Nevertheless, I feel that this crew really needs a condition remover. Specifically, Misaki. If she and Yamaziko are going in gung ho into the enemy lines, a timely Paralyze or other ilk will be too much of a wrench in my plans. So Shadow Effigy and Sensei Yu will have to do the Scheme running. If I want to cheat with my intention I might switch Johan or Yamaziko out for two Tengus, but that is probably a tournament only curve ball. 
***Cutpurse and Recalled Training are interchangeable. I will start to play around with Cutpurse (in order to burn Soulstones more rapidly), but I think Recalled Training is the best option. 
****Laugh all you want, but for 3ss you get Rush of Magic, a decent heal for Misaki, and an extra activation. 
*****Wandering River Style can be switched out for Low River Style if I feel that healing would be paramount. It will be a rare for sure. 

In my recent games I have played with a variant of this crew, but I feel this version will probably be my most used. There is enough pushes, giving out extra AP and interacts for the crew to generate more than enough AP to keep up with the opponents'. The heart of this aspect are Shadow Emissary (giving friendly non-leaders Fast after pushing them 4", as well as possibly giving Misaki an extra AP after she kills an enemy) and Sensei Yu (dishing out Fast as well as pushes, can also Stalk targets for Misaki). 

The jobs: 

Gun fodder. This not so pleasant role goes to the Shadow Effigy and Shang. They will be main targets for Misdirection, first to activate on turn one most of the time, use their actions to buff Misaki, and try to keep her safe by blocking charges, etc. later turns. Yamaziko is also effectively a distraction for Misaki too, and will probably take a few Misdirection hits from Misaki. Her Brace Yari aura will keep Misaki safer too. 

Killing. Most of the crew really. The cool thing with this crew is that every model is a threat. Even the lowly Effigy and Shang can dish out some hurt thanks to Ml 7 or Flay respectively. The other crew members can dish out a fair bit of hurt in a different ways, with Misaki naturally being at the apex. Shadow Emissary is my main anti-scheme runner actually. It can see over walls, other models, etc. To get to those pesky runners. With its (0) push and ability to get to Focus +2 without spending any AP it got a threat range of 16" while being able to hit something once. It has done that job very well for me. Johan will be a threat from turn two (once he has caught up) and will give some security against constructs, which is always nice. Getting a push and Fast from the Emissary really speeds him up, and makes his Flurry way more scary! Misaki and Yamaziko will push for the enemy leader early, strip it from resources by attacking in a variety of ways, and hopefully go for the kill. Yu can be a quite nice assassin against targets who rely on df triggers. 

Scheme running. This is quite a heavy burden for the crew and everyone more or less have to chime in on the task. Mainly it will fall on Yu and the Shadow Effigy to get those scheme markers out. 

Board control. Yu is great at moving enemies as well scheme markers. Misaki, Yamaziko, and the Shadow Emissary are speedy enough to get to places. Misaki and the Emissary also have ways of getting out of melee. Yamaziko can deny some charges with her Brace Yari.

Overall tactic. 

Getting into the enemy's face early and try to get rid of the most pressing threats. Ideally on turn one or early turn two. Yamaziko and Misaki will get there with the help of the Emissary and Yu respectively. Yamaziko can go up to 20"+deployment zone on turn 1 (charge threat: 21"+deployment zone), while Misaki can potentially just about reach anywhere on the board under the right circumstances. Most of the time it will be 15"-25"+deployment zone and have two to three AP left to swing with. All and all, their threat ranges are just massive. Even if Yamaziko doesn't do a ton of damage she is still a threat to enemy leaders, especially with her apprentice sneaking around behind her. Yama will get + to duels against enemy leaders, which makes her ml 5 a bit more respectable. The fact that she can dish out blasts make enemies close to the leader pretty good targets too. The trick is to get the opponent to waist resources while battling Yamaziko, so Misaki can then charge in and hopefully have an upper hand. 

We will see how it goes. 

 

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Overall the crew looks pretty solid. But for my taste and experiencie with Misaki, I'd make some changes.

Personally, I'd change Yamaziko and Johan for Yin and Chiaki. Both work pretty good together (lately I've achieved in most games to get +1Chi turn one with Chiaki, then passing it to Yin turn 2, which then becomes shamelessly great against Ca Masters). Also, Yin with Smoke grenades practically grants 3PV for Bodyguard. But then again, I really love Yin, as being so independent and solid works pretty good with Misaki.

Recalled Training seems too nice to take Cutpurse instead, specially with all the APs yo can get for Misaki with Yu and the Emmisary. And lately, I've come to love RT + Thunder, it can be a real game changer in some situations.

And lastly, a 4SS cache seems too much for Misaki to me (especially if you resolve to leave Yamaziko for Yin). I'd leave it at 3SS top, but most games I just stick to 2SS.

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Why do you prefer such a low SS-cache? If I spend for cards turn 1-2, keep the rest for prevention or suits those four stones will be gone before I know it. Most of the time I run with a 4-5 cache. 

I can see where you are coming from with Yin and Chiaki. The buff to Ca is nice, and Yin is one hell of a tarpit. Pilfer is a Ca attack too, strengthens the bond a little bit extra between Yin and Misaki. It would have been great if Thunder was a Ca too, but it isn't. With that said, both those models lack killing power. They can disrupt, slow down, push, and tie down models in a lot of ways, but they will not get them into the ground. Most of the time I really feel that is the best way to keep the crew safe and freeing them up to run schemes. I don't think I expanded on that point well enough in my original post. Also Yin isn't as fast as Yamaziko in this crew. Yama doesn't sport Flight but Yin will not be able to get as far as Yamaziko turn 1, of course depending on terrain. Yin cannot protect Misaki as well as Yama, since I will rate Brace Yari a little higher than Terrifying. Its great that both are on 40mm though, which Misaki can hide behind. 

Completely agree with you on Recalled Training. I just want to try Cutpurse more and see its limitations and usages. RT also makes Thunder so much better for a turn. Hard to get to those positives on damage otherwise, unless you are using Focus. 

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I'm not sure what you meant with Pilfer being a Ca action. Misaki couldn't get the +1Chi from Chiaki, as she's not an ancestor, and wouldn't benefit neither from the (0) of Yin, as Pilfer targets Df, not Wp, IIRC.

Anyhow, I respect your intention of trying out Cutpurse, as I myself would like to try it more often, but then I never find the situation to justify it xD.

Most times Misaki works better for me without SS in the pool. (+) to Df boosts Misdirection greatly, and the crows for Risky Ventures combined with RT and/or the flips form Stalking Bisento makes Assassination come out more frequently than the rival would like.

But the main reason for me for a low SS pool with Misaki is to get to use that last SS that triggers an "automatic" Assessinate when I want to. Also, a low SS pool is really helpful to trigger easily Assessinate several times in the same activation, which I find vital against the most hard to put down enemies.

You are mostly right about the "killiness" of Yin, but I don't find Yamaziko really killy neither. Although her 3 weak Dg is great, her Ml5 makes her just fail to succed on the attack. Also, I find Yama extremely great in some situations, but really, really weak in others, which makes her (for me) not a good option if I don't know what I'm facing.

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Yin's Gnawing Fear (0) will get the target on Negatives for both Ca and Wp duels. They are excluded from each other. That is what I meant by the Pilfer-combo, since Pilfer is a Ca attack. 

I think we are agreeing more than disagreeing with the low Cache, but there are some slight differences. I prefer the 4-5 cache mainly for Prevention, being able to draws cards on turn 1-2, and re-flip initiative (man I wish Misaki had some initiative boost or Ill Omens). They all play into being able to maximizing Misaki's aggressiveness early game. By turn two I have spent two if not three Soulstones already, and the one or two left are simply there for easing up a juicy hit from the opponent (by prevention or guaranteeing Misdirection). As you are rightfully pointing out, with no cache left, she has ways of doing that, but I still like to have some insurance. 

Yamaziko doesn't really have to be killy. She needs to put enough pressure on the opposing leader, and ml 5 with a positive usually does that. She can also just make them ditch cards, or at least cheat high enough since no one wants to discard four cards early turn two when Misaki is within charge range. I just think she presents enough of bad choices for the opponent. If that opponent is someone who targets WP, she might be even a worse opponent than Yin too. Also, Yamaziko can be decent at chopping up minions with her minimum damage 3. still I think that Yin is a really good option with her debuffs, defenses, and she is still min damage 2 (which is great) with built-in Poison. 

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16 minutes ago, Patzer said:

Yin's Gnawing Fear (0) will get the target on Negatives for both Ca and Wp duels. They are excluded from each other. That is what I meant by the Pilfer-combo, since Pilfer is a Ca attack.

Misaki using Pilfer against a model is Misaki taking a Ca duel and the target taking a Df duel. The target is not on :-fate for Df duels, therefore Gnawing Fears has no effect here.

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1 hour ago, BigHammer said:

Misaki using Pilfer against a model is Misaki taking a Ca duel and the target taking a Df duel. The target is not on :-fate for Df duels, therefore Gnawing Fears has no effect here.

Read that wrong then. Too bad, lessens the case for Yin slightly. 

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You are correct! I don't intend to use it since there isn't any Last Blossom minions in the list. Are you thinking of Smoke Grenades, which we have discussed in the thread? That is an other upgrade from book 2, that gives models who attacks from 6" and beyond a negative and it can be discarded for some "Smoke-markers" (similar to the ones you get from Smoke and Shadows). 

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On 2016-02-17 at 8:37 AM, Freman said:

Okay. Thanks. I must have missed that one. 

No worries. Smoke Grenades is a fantastic upgrade though. Especially on Yamaziko. WP attacks such as Lures will have double negatives against her with it. Snipers will still smoke her, but it takes the edge off if anything. 

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  • 2 months later...

After playing a handful more games with Misaki and the gang, some questions and thoughts have come up.

First, is it reliable enough? The crew is more or less centred around Misaki having enough hitting power in order to make the opposing crew in a worse off situation than yours; if or before Misaki goes down. Hopefully this should be done by turn 2-3. That plan works fairly efficiently against most crews, but I have some worries that the grass might be greener on the other side(s) of the faction. Since if Misaki fails, the crew will be in a pretty bad spot. Most of the time I will only have 6 models left whom should survive and do all my schemes. In the best case scenario they might still be able to, but that is far from certainty.

This brings me to the second point. That is if it might not be worth it to rely so heavily on Misaki killing the most important enemy models (i.e. mostly masters, enforcers, or henchmen). Especially now when Ten Thunders has other was of creating pretty potent cruise missiles in almost every crew; Thanks to the Emissary. For example, in my standard Lynch crew Huggy can be pushed twice and be given Fast. That means it can charge anything (deployment zone+4+4+6+6+3) dz+23" away. If Huggy doesn't survive it can come back later, no fuzz. Another way of doing it is to hire the Strongarm Suit, if I suspect the opponent will try and tie up my missile. With Yan Lo, the Soul Porter and Emissary can get Izamu to similar length (even though he isn't as nimble as Huggy or SaS). So other masters can do quite a strong alpha strike too, but with way less investment.

Another important thing is that Misaki cannot score as many VP any more. Neutralize their leader comes up far less than Assassinate, she cannot do Hunting Party but could do Make them Suffer, Murder Protege and A Quick Murder is more or less on par, Frame for Murder has always been a pest for her, and there was and there is a ton of schemes that is easy to do for the opponent while she is in the thick of it (Exhaust, Public Demonstration, but no longer Deliver the Message). On the other hand, Misaki can now switch her focus more to denial (such as killing Enforcers and Henchmen in order to deny Hunting Party).

In sum, I have started to doubt Misaki's ceiling a bit. She can wreck the opposing side, but it all falls on her. Maybe this is just a play style and I am too much of a conservative player for this to really work. At the same time, I still think others can do similarly well with less. While freeing up a lot more of their crew to do other stuff. I will still try to flesh out where I stand on Misaki, but I am starting to think she might not fare well enough given the opportunity cost the faction presents.

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The difference here is that you alpha-strike with Misaki herself, which changes the interaction with strategies and schemes a great deal.
On the other hand, I find what you said about going for smaller targets the better approach. Circle around the enemy, take out their lesser models, put some pressure and divert attention. You don't have to go for the big targets straight away, wait until your Assassinate and + Df are ready to proc. Alternatively, if the enemy is sporting a summoner it might be a good idea to run straight up into said summoner's face and eat their cards and SS (not a good idea vs. Molly, though). 

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The crew looks decent!

I would definitely agree that switching out Johan for Chiaki may be a good move. She doesn't hit hard but she can remove conditions, heal, push models off of objectives, and turn things Insignificant. She has a lot of utility and you don't need much more killing in a Misaki crew.

In my opinion Shang is useless, I find him way to slow to heal and 3ss a lot for Rush of Magic, but people vary which is fine.

Are you putting Hidden Agenda on to save soulstones and still work on Show of Force? Been meaning to try it.

I liked her before but if you are using Gaining Grounds, Yamaziko is AMAZING you can get masters to discard a lot of cards because all the schemes start unrevealed and Smoke Grenades makes her far more survivable.

Personally, I agree wholeheartedly on taking Recalled Training over almost anything but especially Cutpurse. I used to be a non-believer but since trying it out on a number of models, it really lives up to the hype. In connection with that, I also used to believe a 4ss pool was good for Misaki, and it is, but a 2/3ss pool is absolutely deadly for her to play the assassin role. The play is to set a target up for her to kill, having hopefully already stalked it you'll have A LOT of attacks. If you have a high Crow use your first stone for one to Trigger Decapitate, then burn your second for a Crow and you have an automatic Decapitate Trigger. If you don't, burn both on the first attack for extra :+fate and a Crow for the auto Trigger. It's really effective and then with the extra :+fate for a :+fate:+fate to Df to get Misdirection firing because the opponent will have almost no cards left after the Decapitate madness.

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On 2016-04-27 at 8:05 PM, Eclipse said:

The difference here is that you alpha-strike with Misaki herself, which changes the interaction with strategies and schemes a great deal.
On the other hand, I find what you said about going for smaller targets the better approach. Circle around the enemy, take out their lesser models, put some pressure and divert attention. You don't have to go for the big targets straight away, wait until your Assassinate and + Df are ready to proc. Alternatively, if the enemy is sporting a summoner it might be a good idea to run straight up into said summoner's face and eat their cards and SS (not a good idea vs. Molly, though). 

Here is the kicker. If is used Misaki as a "schemer", is Sensei Yu worth hiring? Yu is absolutely fantastic for Misaki (pushing her twice, giving her Fast, getting Stalked out), but if Misaki isn't going in early I don't know if Yu is really worth taking. Sure he can push other models around, going for schemes later, and still mark whatever with Stalked. On the other hand, he is quite expensive and Soulstones are fewer than one thinks. Maybe I will try Low River Style on him instead. Loosing the second push and Fast is very sad, but it will free up room for other models. Since Yu can then both heal, remove conditions, getting stalked out, and push. That frees the crew up from having to hire Chiaki/Johan and another healer.

 

6 hours ago, chris_havoc said:

The crew looks decent!

I would definitely agree that switching out Johan for Chiaki may be a good move. She doesn't hit hard but she can remove conditions, heal, push models off of objectives, and turn things Insignificant. She has a lot of utility and you don't need much more killing in a Misaki crew.

In my opinion Shang is useless, I find him way to slow to heal and 3ss a lot for Rush of Magic, but people vary which is fine.

Are you putting Hidden Agenda on to save soulstones and still work on Show of Force? Been meaning to try it.

I liked her before but if you are using Gaining Grounds, Yamaziko is AMAZING you can get masters to discard a lot of cards because all the schemes start unrevealed and Smoke Grenades makes her far more survivable.

Personally, I agree wholeheartedly on taking Recalled Training over almost anything but especially Cutpurse. I used to be a non-believer but since trying it out on a number of models, it really lives up to the hype. In connection with that, I also used to believe a 4ss pool was good for Misaki, and it is, but a 2/3ss pool is absolutely deadly for her to play the assassin role. The play is to set a target up for her to kill, having hopefully already stalked it you'll have A LOT of attacks. If you have a high Crow use your first stone for one to Trigger Decapitate, then burn your second for a Crow and you have an automatic Decapitate Trigger. If you don't, burn both on the first attack for extra :+fate and a Crow for the auto Trigger. It's really effective and then with the extra :+fate for a :+fate:+fate to Df to get Misdirection firing because the opponent will have almost no cards left after the Decapitate madness.

I have tried Chiaki, but I felt that in my seven model crew she lacked offense which the crew couldn't afford. Maybe I will try her in another set up. Don't get me wrong, Chiaki is a great 6ss model!

Shang is great for a handful of reasons. Rush of magic is gold, more cards wins you games. It is a Misdirection target. It is good for some opportunistic healing. It can dish out some hurt with Flay, especially late turn and your are on a card advantage. Lastly, Shang is a cheap activation in a crew that is in dire need of them. 

Hidden Agenda is attached in order for the Emissary to use its Rite of Strength action on models, without having to pay for a proper upgrade. Does it work in Show of Force?

Yamaziko is pretty good for having a model who can keep up with Misaki. Especially if the pair goes after a master or other bigger model with df 5 or lower.

I think playing Misaki with a lower cache than 5 is a trap. If I am playing her with 4, I am playing for fewer turns. She needs those Soulstones to stay alive and well, and get you more cards. That + to defence is nice, but won't save Misaki.

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2 hours ago, Patzer said:

Here is the kicker. If is used Misaki as a "schemer", is Sensei Yu worth hiring? Yu is absolutely fantastic for Misaki (pushing her twice, giving her Fast, getting Stalked out), but if Misaki isn't going in early I don't know if Yu is really worth taking. Sure he can push other models around, going for schemes later, and still mark whatever with Stalked. On the other hand, he is quite expensive and Soulstones are fewer than one thinks. Maybe I will try Low River Style on him instead. Loosing the second push and Fast is very sad, but it will free up room for other models. Since Yu can then both heal, remove conditions, getting stalked out, and push. That frees the crew up from having to hire Chiaki/Johan and another healer.

You can use Misaki to run schemes, you just have to change her upgrades. Normally you would be aggressive and take Stalking Bisento and Sensei Yu. The often disregarded option though is to take Disguised and another (defensive?) upgrade + Recalled Training for a burst of damage and protection. In this case you would dance around the table giving a hit or two where you can if the enemy can't retaliate well (beware of lots of shooting and crews with pushes that can circumvent Disguised's 'no charge' rule). Sensei Yu would have no (0) to copy from Misaki in this case, though - so you might want to make the third upgrade Wings of Wind - more mobility to go around the crew. In addition I take stuff like Ototo (finally a game where he can shine together with Misaki!) - staying power that can cover the board. If you have Shang and Low River Sensei Yu you can heal quite reasonably while holding some portion of the board and running through others.
And some misc bits of my experience:
- Shang is indeed great, the Rush of Magic is gold, and another cheap activation is YUM;
- Hidden Agenda and all other (0) cost upgrades do not count towards Show of Force. Oh, well... (sigh);
- Yamaziko is awesome! Aunty Yama sure knows how to stick it to ya :P
- I regularly play all my Masters with cache only (no summoners ;)). Misaki especially I prefer playing with 2ss so I can quickly enter the Risky Ventures when I want to. This also has correlation to how I play, though: I choose the weaker targets to hunt, divert attention and resources to Misaki, then bolt. If a Master comes along I Assassinate them (requires some setup). If I choose my targets carefully I don't need that many SS. Well, I don't use the Misaki cruise missile (the name is courtesy of another user here on the forum whose name I don't remember, if you read this say 'Hi!') so this is why I rarely need as many SS for the game.

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I don't think TT Misaki is that well suited for the "schemer" approach. In Outcast on the other hand she can certainly do it, but there she has more defensive options. In Thunders, if Misaki doesn't go "for the kill" playstyle, I really feel there are better options in the faction. Sure there are nuances to when you should go for the big kill with Misaki, but overall she wants to play a shorter game so to say.

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Misaki is my first love and I really enjoy playing her, but I still feel like she can be very swingy and lacks punch, especially vs crews with Armour/Incorporeal. If you don't go cruise missile, just pick around the edges you end up playing catch up, if you do go cruise missile without the ability to out-activate it takes a lot of careful positioning and can be scuttled. 

I still love playing her but I feel like I've got to play harder with her than with my other Masters.

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I agree that she lacks punch against certain models. Whether it is armor, incorporeal, hard to wound, or hard to kill; it slows down Misaki's onslaught immensely. 

Her positioning is vital. Blend into Shadows and Misdirection can help her staying around, as well as a handful of Soulstones, but it is still a risky venture.

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