Please sell me on TTB

[amanwing]

We have experience with Cthulhu, Pathfinder, Shadowrun and D&D.

Now we usually play D&D5.

Since we all enjoy Malifaux we are willing to try out TTB. We are just hesitating because we learned to love the streamlined combat system and the character customisation in D&D5.

So please tell me why we need to try TTB!

[LeperColony]

You could always see the almost identically named thread (except you abbreviated Through the Breach) that is still on the first page of the TTB forums...

[Mason]

44 minutes ago, amanwing said:

We have experience with Cthulhu, Pathfinder, Shadowrun and D&D.

Now we usually play D&D5.

Since we all enjoy Malifaux we are willing to try out TTB. We are just hesitating because we learned to love the streamlined combat system and the character customisation in D&D5.

So please tell me why we need to try TTB!

Mechanically speaking, Through the Breach is more fluid than 5E DnD in terms of how magic is treated and character progression. Moving between Pursuits (i.e., classes) in Through the Breach is very easy, as each player just picks which Pursuit they wish to follow at the start of the session, and then at the end of the session, they "level up" in that Pursuit. That means that there's a steady sense of progression at the end of each session, unlike DnD where character can sometimes go multiple sessions without advancing along their chosen class.

Once you start mixing and matching in Pursuits from Into the Steam (the Arcanist/magic/construct book) and the upcoming Under Quarantine (the Resurrectionist/undead book), you end up with a lot of options for character customization, and Manifested Powers (unique magical effects characters develop over time) only serve to make them more unique.

 

Pretty much everyone in Through the Breach can use magic, though there are certainly some Pursuits that are better at it than others. The spells are very mutable, with character adding or subtracting effects to shape the spell they want to cast each time they do so, sort of like an easier version of metamagic from past versions of DnD.

Through the Breach also uses cards instead of dice, and the players can cheat bad flips like in Malifaux, which makes for a different sort of probability curve over dice games, and it also allows players to use Triggers like in Malifaux. 

 

From a less mechanical viewpoint, Through the Breach is probably the best game to use to play games set in the Malifaux world. The players can rub shoulders with characters from the stories and miniatures game, and the game is designed with lots of steampunk and horror elements in a way that base 5E DnD is not. Personally, I think it makes for better horror games, because characters rarely have hit points in the double digits, which makes the characters feel more fragile and vulnerable.

The narrative element of the game is also pretty unique. Players generate their character's destiny when they make their character, and then each session of the game is intended to revolve around the player coming to terms with one of the steps of her destiny. Thus, the game tends to be focused around the players and their stories, and whether or not they embrace their destiny or strive for something better.

[LeperColony]

1 hour ago, Mason said:

the game is designed with lots of steampunk and horror elements

The nice part about this is that it's relatively easy to give even people entirely new to Malifaux a good sense of the world.

[amanwing]

Thank you Mason! You mentioned a lot of points we would like. Especially  "Personally, I think it makes for better horror games, because characters rarely have hit points in the double digits, which makes the characters feel more fragile and vulnerable. "and this sounds great too: "Players generate their character's destiny when they make their character, and then each session of the game is intended to revolve around the player coming to terms with one of the steps of her destiny. "

One big question just came up. Do you need to run it with miniatures? Will you miss a lot if you don't?

 

[Lucidicide]

No, minis are completely optional. The only reason to include them would be if your players really liked tactical combat. From a core TTB perspective, you don't miss out on anything without minis.

[Omenbringer]

3 hours ago, Mason said:

Mechanically speaking, Through the Breach is more fluid than 5E DnD in terms of how magic is treated and character progression. Moving between Pursuits (i.e., classes) in Through the Breach is very easy, as each player just picks which Pursuit they wish to follow at the start of the session, and then at the end of the session, they "level up" in that Pursuit. That means that there's a steady sense of progression at the end of each session, unlike DnD where character can sometimes go multiple sessions without advancing along their chosen class.

Once you start mixing and matching in Pursuits from Into the Steam (the Arcanist/magic/construct book) and the upcoming Under Quarantine (the Resurrectionist/undead book), you end up with a lot of options for character customization, and Manifested Powers (unique magical effects characters develop over time) only serve to make them more unique.

Pretty much everyone in Through the Breach can use magic, though there are certainly some Pursuits that are better at it than others. The spells are very mutable, with character adding or subtracting effects to shape the spell they want to cast each time they do so, sort of like an easier version of metamagic from past versions of DnD.

Through the Breach also uses cards instead of dice, and the players can cheat bad flips like in Malifaux, which makes for a different sort of probability curve over dice games, and it also allows players to use Triggers like in Malifaux. 

From a less mechanical viewpoint, Through the Breach is probably the best game to use to play games set in the Malifaux world. The players can rub shoulders with characters from the stories and miniatures game, and the game is designed with lots of steampunk and horror elements in a way that base 5E DnD is not. Personally, I think it makes for better horror games, because characters rarely have hit points in the double digits, which makes the characters feel more fragile and vulnerable.

The narrative element of the game is also pretty unique. Players generate their character's destiny when they make their character, and then each session of the game is intended to revolve around the player coming to terms with one of the steps of her destiny. Thus, the game tends to be focused around the players and their stories, and whether or not they embrace their destiny or strive for something better.

"Fluid" is a good way to explain the character progression and class system (especially for some one coming from DnD). The magic system I would say it is very open, but not particularly robust mechanically (Into the Steam improved upon it, but...). It will likely present some challenges, particularly for the Fate Master if his group contains any "munchkin" type players.

In regards to the cards versus dice comments, well it is best to just say that it is a very, very different experience than DnD. Just saying the probability curve is different is not enough, the probability curve is tuned for a specific encounter level, and much longer wave (read as memory). Because of this combats in TtB are much different than you will find in DnD.

With that out of the way on to the OP's original question; The biggest selling point for TtB to me is in the story. This is particularly true if the group is somewhat seasoned and doesn't contain a lot of "munchkin" players that can game the system. I would recommend the OP search the forum for some of the other threads in regards to TtB, particularly the discussions on TN and card randomization. TtB has a lot of similarities to the Story Telling Games from White Wolf, but the card mechanic is something that is somewhat unique to TtB (and something that I feel needs to be really understood prior to playing). For an experienced group of RPG's (especially the Fate Master) looking for a different experience from what they are used to, their is a lot of opportunity in TtB.

Not an excited endorsement, but one that I feel better reflects the game. Think of TtB as more of a connoisseurs game.

[LeperColony]

45 minutes ago, amanwing said:

One big question just came up. Do you need to run it with miniatures? Will you miss a lot if you don't?

I agree with Aaron that miniatures are in no sense necessary.  However, the more combat features in your sessions, the better off you are with miniatures.  The combat system shares many similarities with Malifaux (using Malifaux for combat is even an optional rule), and the concepts are typically expressed in terms easier to render with clear tracking of everyone's positioning.

8 minutes ago, Omenbringer said:

In regards to the cards versus dice comments, well it is best to just say that it is a very, very different experience than DnD. Just saying the probability curve is different is not enough, the probability curve is tuned for a specific encounter level, and much longer wave (read as memory). Because of this combats in TtB are much different than you will find in DnD.

Omenbringer is correct here, 100%.  The savvier your players, the more you have to understand the implications of the card system.  There are other threads about this, though.

 

[amanwing]

Thank you! After reading those other comments I think I will read through the other threads. Our group might have some pg who like clear written definitions of what they can do. A white wolf like system would not be right.

[Scott Beattie]

17 hours ago, LeperColony said:

The nice part about this is that it's relatively easy to give even people entirely new to Malifaux a good sense of the world.

Although you do really need to know the Malifaux setting to make the most of it.

[Scott Beattie]

The destiny concept was the real clincher for me.   You could probably use it with other systems if you wanted to but it gives the game a very distinctive flavour.

[Omenbringer]

17 hours ago, amanwing said:

Our group might have some pg who like clear written definitions of what they can do. A white wolf like system would not be right.

I would probably recommend adapting another system then, using the TtB books as source material (prior to Wyrd publishing TtB some members of the community did this).

The original developer of TtB was not a huge fan of rigid systems. I will forgo expanding upon this as you will likely stumble across my thoughts on it, in many of the threads pertaining to TtB and its idiosyncrasies.

I think it is a good story telling game, but will caveat this with it very likely could have been a lot better had someone else been at the helm back then (like say the new developers who have already made some improvements and have me optimistic about future development).

[amanwing]

Thank you all! I will discuss this with our group. You helped a lot!

[fatbaldhobbit]

I was the one who started the other thread mentioned above.

I purchased the two core books after the posts here and talking to players at mu FLGS.

I've read most of the player's book and skimmed parts of the GM's book.

Everything I've seen so far has been great!  The books are very nice, good layout, pretty art, etc.  The rules seem fairly easy to follow so far.  The card system is interesting and an intriguing change from dice-rolling.

I would definitely recommend it!