Zool Posted February 8, 2016 Report Share Posted February 8, 2016 So I've been trying to work out a list for Zoraida with the Hooded Rider as I am ywt to hire him for a game. This is what my 50ss list looks like minus upgrades as those would be scheme dependant: -Zoraida -Bad Juju -Hooded Rider -2x Waldgeist -Silurid -Iggy What do you guys think? It feels a bit expensive for a 50ss list, my thoughts would be that Bad Juju would have to drop out if I want to keep the rider? I almost always take 2 Waldgeist and 1 Silurd regardless of schemes as they are just so awesome and synergise so well with Bad Juju, but dropping him may change that plan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mxbedlam Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I would drop Juju for a Doppleganger. She loves riding shotgun with the rider and borrowing his big attack. Its also fun to use a BBS to give the Rider Black Blood and make it even more of a difficult model for your opponent to remove. One of my best games to date involved running the rider into Sonnia's face with black blood on it. Took out Frank and Sonnia before he succumbed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomjoad Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 As great as the Doppleganger is, remember that she won't get any of the sweet sweet triggers that the Rider enjoys. Nekima, Teddy, or a mature neph are all going to add a lot more to her punching power than a rider can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zool Posted February 10, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I find everyone on the forums are always very quick to drop Juju, which I'm not sure why, the fact the he pops up after being buried after any swampfiend get's killed with eternal fiend upgrade makes him completely worth it in my opinion? It makes me play him recklessly by charging into a group of enemies early on hoping he does a lot of damage before dying. Then once he is buried the opponent get's very cautious about attacking any of my swamp fiend for fear of Juju popping back up. If the core of my crew consist of mostly swampfiends then I really don't see Bad Juju not being able to fullfill his role. Having said that I have never tried Teddy with Zoraida, and I love the idea of adding in a Shaman giving Black Blood to the Hooded Rider as well as my Wladgeist tar pit. I'm going to play a game tonight where a sub Teddy in for Bad Juju, as i don't have Nekima, Nephs or the Doppleganger to try out. But I'm also not sure how well Teddy will synergise with Zoraida and the rest of the crew... I could just keep Bad Juju as my henchman and add a black blood shaman in there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomjoad Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 My experience is that no competent player will kill Juju before killing the other swampfiends. Because Juju is so slow, and because silurids and waldegeists are fast and can deploy from the shadows, and because they aren't particularly threatening, it's rare that Eternal Fiend really gets a ton of value. It's not the worst. You're still giving your opponent an opportunity to mess up and making him worry about Juju returning has some value, but not enough to make me want to spend 10ss on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EyeThief Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 I've found that running a wild boar or two with Zoraida really increases your likelihood of unburying Bad Juju. I tend to start with him buried and as the Boars already have from the shadows your opponent needs to decide if he wants a couple of pigs pinballing through his crew (and lets face it, their damage spread is high enough to make them a target) or having Juju unbury in the midst. I've found Silurids and Waldgeists aren't great unbury avenues as you really want both kept alive, the Silurids to run schemes and the Geists as a tar pit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MetaphoricDragn Posted February 10, 2016 Report Share Posted February 10, 2016 1 hour ago, EyeThief said: I've found that running a wild boar or two with Zoraida really increases your likelihood of unburying Bad Juju. I tend to start with him buried and as the Boars already have from the shadows your opponent needs to decide if he wants a couple of pigs pinballing through his crew (and lets face it, their damage spread is high enough to make them a target) or having Juju unbury in the midst. I've found Silurids and Waldgeists aren't great unbury avenues as you really want both kept alive, the Silurids to run schemes and the Geists as a tar pit. I've definitely considered something like this on paper, particularly with a Fears Given Form Juju. Any further advice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zool Posted February 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 So I played a game against Mei Feng last night with the game ending 7-8 to mei Feng, was super close and such a fun game. Strat: Protect the Stach Schemes: Zoraida - Hunting Party + Exhaust / Mei Feng - Hunting Party + Exhaust My list i took was: -Zoraida | Animal Shape + Crystal Ball + -Bad Juju | Eternal Fiend -Hooded Rider -2x Waldgeist -Silurid -Iggy The game was great, but Mei Feng managed to beat me by one point by taking out both Waldgeist, Silurid and the Hooded Rider by turn 4. If the Hooded rider survived into turn 5 he easily could have taken Mei Feng down and two more models. The Hooded rider was amazing, almost took an entire turn for Mei Feng to take him out and almost every model in the crew was spending AP to take him out. Bad Juju gave me Hunting Party points for 2 turns and exhaust for 2 more, he was so great, especially with the landslide ability. Iggy was horrible, didn't manage to do anything except help score a Protect the stash point for one turn. The silurid was awesome at getting points for Exhaust but went down quick once the Meing Feng crew started focussing on taking him down. It was my first game where I didn't get much out of the Waldgeist as the Mei Feng crew was ignoring my +2 Armor. The Hooded Rider is so great and will for sure run him with Zoraida again, his ability to drag a friendly model within 2" is awesome and he hits so hard and damage prevantion is great by turn 3. Having Zoraida give him an extra attack is so brutal. I never have issues with Juju being slow as Turn 1 I always obey him for an extra move or two if needed. My favourite models for the game was Juju and the Hooded rider, and the wors was my Voodoo Doll and Iggy. It's probably just my play style but i won't be dropping Juju in any of my swampfiend builds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sordid Strumpet Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 20 hours ago, tomjoad said: My experience is that no competent player will kill Juju before killing the other swampfiends. Because Juju is so slow, and because silurids and waldegeists are fast and can deploy from the shadows, and because they aren't particularly threatening, it's rare that Eternal Fiend really gets a ton of value. It's not the worst. You're still giving your opponent an opportunity to mess up and making him worry about Juju returning has some value, but not enough to make me want to spend 10ss on him. Huh? That's a really odd way of looking at his biggest strength and framing it as a weakness. You want Bad Juju killed as quickly as possible as soon as he pops up (after he had the chance to do a ton of damage of course). Because then your opponent has to worry about him unburying all over again. He's good with silurids and waldgeists precisely BECAUSE they are fast and can have from the shadows. Ever seen what happens when a waldgeist charges into the middle of a crew in turn 1, puts down a forest and then engages everything within 4"? You HAVE to kill it or else get nothing done in turn one. Same for Silurids, except they're even better woth their leap. But then when you kill that annoying guy that just engaged your key models, out pops Bad Juju and guess what, you just used most of your activation(s) to kill that silurid. Stomping time for Bad Juju! And please do spend the rest of your turn putting him down, I have anothwr waldgeist to charge in, and by now half your crew is dead, you're basically still in your deployment zone and I've scored left right and center. And Bad Juju will keep coming back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zool Posted February 11, 2016 Author Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 Couldn't agree more Sordid Strumpet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adran Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 I don't think I've ever seen Eternal fiend cause Juju to be unburied more than once in a game, and most of the time it doesn't get him unburied once. If he is off the table, you're down a strong model, and a lot of the time, I can dance around silurids and Waldgiest to not bring him out. And if they are about, I can probably kill them when he hits the table. Even going on your waldgiest trick, if I move my crew about so that Juju can't be placed in base contact with the Walgiest, he ends up back in his deployment zone (I think, thats how the rules work). And thats not such a good trade anymore. I like Juju, but I've had more success with him without buying eternal fiend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomjoad Posted February 11, 2016 Report Share Posted February 11, 2016 5 hours ago, Sordid Strumpet said: Huh? That's a really odd way of looking at his biggest strength and framing it as a weakness. You want Bad Juju killed as quickly as possible as soon as he pops up (after he had the chance to do a ton of damage of course). Because then your opponent has to worry about him unburying all over again. He's good with silurids and waldgeists precisely BECAUSE they are fast and can have from the shadows. Ever seen what happens when a waldgeist charges into the middle of a crew in turn 1, puts down a forest and then engages everything within 4"? You HAVE to kill it or else get nothing done in turn one. Same for Silurids, except they're even better woth their leap. But then when you kill that annoying guy that just engaged your key models, out pops Bad Juju and guess what, you just used most of your activation(s) to kill that silurid. Stomping time for Bad Juju! And please do spend the rest of your turn putting him down, I have anothwr waldgeist to charge in, and by now half your crew is dead, you're basically still in your deployment zone and I've scored left right and center. And Bad Juju will keep coming back. When this works, obviously, yes, Juju is awesome and he's a huge blow out. I just can't remember the last time I played against a crew that wouldn't just push/obey/lure that waldegeist into a less dangerous position rather than kill it, and then you have nothing to show for it. Now, I LOVE this trick with the waldegeist. Plant him 3.5" inches away from something, germinate, hit somebody with the rooted trigger...it's beauty incarnate. But Juju is, in all of my experiences, and unnecessary and unhelpful addition who just makes you drop 20% of your soul stones off the table. It's fun and cool, and is probably the best thing you can do with Juju, but I just don't think it's very good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sordid Strumpet Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Like everything in Malifaux, it depends heavily on your meta and play styles. I don't think it's as bad a tactic as you say, at least not universally so I wouldn't discourage someone as vehemently as you have from using it. But it bears keeping in mind the caveat that your mileage may vary depending on who you play against and how they use their crew. In principle, the tactic is very similar to killjoy-bombs and he is an often complained-about model which some see as way too powerful and others see as pretty useless as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mxbedlam Posted February 12, 2016 Report Share Posted February 12, 2016 Be very careful of any models with high weak damage spread. Juju will pop up and then simply be decimated again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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