Ramos tips and advice?

[The Warlock]

What are some good tips, tricks and general advice when using Ramos and his crew? I tried him out for the first time and didn't seem to utilise anything effectively at all.

The list I was using was:

Ramos, Joss, Brass Arachnid, 3x Steampunk arachnid, 1 Arachnid swam, 1 Rail golem and upgrades were electrical summoning, combat mechanic and bleeding edge tech (Joss).

All I seemed to do was get any and every spider squashed even when summoning extra spiders and the best I seemed able to do was to just charge the rail golem into combat.

So what are some of the things I can do to improve general competency with Ramos's crew? Any help would be appreciated.
 

[JoeJones]

I normally use Ramos with Arcane Reservoir, Under Pressure, and either Field Generator or Combat Mechanic. I also take Joss (Bleeding Edge Tech and Recharge Soulstone), Howard Langston (Imbued Energies), a ranged specialist (Envy or December Acolyte), then either Essence of Power and one Steam Arachnid, or else two Steam Arachnids. 

My first turn, I move one Steam Arachnid up to the edge of Joss's charge range, then kill it with Joss to generate 2 scrap markers for Ramos to summon from. The second Steam Arachnid (if I take a second one) will move up to start working on schemes. Howard will move up to threaten...everything, and my ranged specialist will find a decent spot to set up and start shooting. After that, my plans change to account for schemes/strategies and my opponent's actions.

Remember that the Steam Arachnids are mainly scheme runners & tarpits. Howard (or the Rail Golem) & Joss are the meat of the crew and must do their jobs if Ramos is to win. Ramos is mostly there to summon spiders and buff his constructs, but he can be very effective in combat if necessary.

Hopefully, you found this helpful. I'm still fairly new to this game (~7 months playing), but I've had some success with Ramos.

[The Warlock]

Thanks, this is quite helpful indeed

Activation is Spider -> Joss -> Ramos then to get scrap and spiders further up field? Reading over Arcane Reservoir and Ramos's reliance on tomes, I can see how it'd be useful (huzzah for 20:20 hindsight). Also, as Joss drops two scrap per construct killed it's useful with combat mechanic to heal summoned arachnids?

Pretty new to Arcanists and Malifaux itself - only been playing for a month.

 

[Breng77]

A lot will come down to play style.  I run atypical crews with Ramos and have done well.  As stated you need some way to generate scrap turn 1.  This could be charging something with Joss, or using an electrical creation and Ramos magnatizing to it.  I tend to use spiders to tie people up and lower their defenses while other models take care of the killing and scoring.  I will say I don't rate the Rail Golem much with Ramos as you don't generate enough burning to make it scarey.  So those points are best spent elsewhere.

[JoeJones]

46 minutes ago, The Warlock said:

Thanks, this is quite helpful indeed

Activation is Spider -> Joss -> Ramos then to get scrap and spiders further up field? Reading over Arcane Reservoir and Ramos's reliance on tomes, I can see how it'd be useful (huzzah for 20:20 hindsight). Also, as Joss drops two scrap per construct killed it's useful with combat mechanic to heal summoned arachnids?

Pretty new to Arcanists and Malifaux itself - only been playing for a month.

 

For healing the Arachnids, I use Bleeding Edge Tech on Joss. With that upgrade, if the arachnids activate within 8" and LOS of Joss, they regenerate one wound. Bleeding Edge Tech provides great synergy with Ramos's summons.

[The Warlock]

44 minutes ago, Breng77 said:

A lot will come down to play style.  I run atypical crews with Ramos and have done well.  As stated you need some way to generate scrap turn 1.  This could be charging something with Joss, or using an electrical creation and Ramos magnatizing to it.  I tend to use spiders to tie people up and lower their defenses while other models take care of the killing and scoring.  I will say I don't rate the Rail Golem much with Ramos as you don't generate enough burning to make it scarey.  So those points are best spent elsewhere.

Does the -1 to Df from the spider cumulative for each one in base contact as it's an ability and not a condition right? The rail golem was used as I haven't based Howard Langston just yet. From what I recall of the game, I didn't use the spiders nearly as effectively as I should've.

[JoeJones]

Yes, the -1 Df from Latch On is cumulative. Steam Arachnids are very nice 4ss minions.

i strongly suggest getting Howard Langston on the table as soon as possible. He is arguably the best melee beater in the game.

[Breng77]

As was said yes the latch on effect does stack, Howard can be quite good,. I don't often use him but would pick him over the Rail golem for a beater in most crews.

[mythicFOX]

It's important to recognize the spiders are there to die.  The point of them is to give you activation control and eat enemy AP by controlling where your opponent can interact / charge / move. Asking more of them is asking too much IMO.  I'd only hire one Steam Arachnid to make your first scrap out of, then summon any more you need.

Ramos' summoning should give you space to take a more elite crew than you would normally be able to, as you have baked in activation control. It does mean though that you still need to hire specialists to do all the jobs your crew will need to do; run objectives and kill the enemy.

Combat Mechanic and Arcane Reservoir are my go-to upgrades. Ramos needs the extra card, and accomplice / healing are golden.

[Mxbedlam]

I tend to use magnetize over Joss on turn one just because Ramos has such a low walk. a 6" push n a (0) action gets Ramos right where he needs to be for Arcing Screen and his melee buff (can never remember than name of it). Spiders are greatly underrated. at 6Df, armor 1, they are more difficult to kill than they look like and can lock down an enemy for at least one turn, which is often enough to accomplish your goals. Don't feel like Ramos has to stay in the back field either. The best place for Ramos to be is in the middle of the swarm where he can reach out to everyone. Electrical Fire is made to work with the Arachnids as it benefits from their Latch On and doesn't randomize. Many times his activation will consist of Summon, Arc Screen, Shoot (or heal if Joss or Langston are looking wounded). Its important to note as well, that when you do use Langston, he isn't invincible. Nimble can get him into a lot of trouble if you sprint him up the board to fast and away from support to quickly. If the opponent can get to him first, he will go down. Use the spiders to tie things up so that Langston is free to go around and murder things. ML 7 with spiders hanging onto the target is hard to get around. 

[The Warlock]

Thanks for all the help everyone, I've got a much better grasp on how to run Ramos- next game I get I'll try some of these tips out.

From what's been said:

Spiders- expendable, primarily to be summoned with one or two bought for scrap generation. Joss's charge or Ramos's magnetise should be used to destroy for scrap further up-field. Used to tie things up and reduce Df before Howard 'Murderising Killbot' Langston comes into the melee.

Ramos- Keep on scene to lay down arcing screen for positive twists to Df and to lay down some supporting fire.

Joss is handy to generate scrap and to have Bleeding Edge Tech to heal any summoned spiders/ other nearby consturcts.

Just another couple of questions:

-Where does the brass arachnid come in? Stoke seems rather situational unless it's in a good position to use rewire in addition to having a good hand.

and does damage/ AP usage on steam arachnids carry over to a swarm?

 

Sorry for asking so many questions but I'm still trying to get a solid grasp on rules Thanks again though for the advice so far

 

[Adran]

It is good to be able to reactivate a big beater, especially if you have activation control, and it will get 2 turns with out retaliation. 

I wouldn't bother destroying my own models for scrap, unless I really need the scrap. Normally after the first turn or 2 I can expect my opponent to kill my spiders for me, so I don't have to waste AP on doing so. Of course, there are sometimes when it is still worth killing your own for scrap, such as then being able to  get them into a scoring position.  Summon electrical creation can be pretty useful for this also, but its not essential, and it does start to be very card reliant.

Likewise, once I have plenty of scrap on the table, you can use it for the heals, but I would focus on making sure I have enough for spider summoning. It really is Ramos' best action. 

A summoned swarm doesn't care what state the arachnids that created it where in, it'll come in on full wounds regardless. 

[JoeJones]

I've found the Brass Arachnid to be situational at best. On the one hand, putting Reactivate on Howard or Joss can be a game-changer. On the other hand, getting Reactivate requires a high Tome card which Ramos needs for summoning more spiders. My advice is to test it out to see if it works for you. (Note: In the interest of full disclosure, I am somewhat biased against the Brass Arachnid since I greatly dislike its model. I recommend that you try it out, though, since some people swear by it.)

When Steam Arachnids form a swarm, the swarm comes into play at full health and ready to be activated. However, it counts as being summoned so it comes into play with the Slow condition and cannot perform Interact actions on its first turn.

[MR TORGUE]

11 minutes ago, JoeJones said:

I've found the Brass Arachnid to be situational at best. On the one hand, putting Reactivate on Howard or Joss can be a game-changer. On the other hand, getting Reactivate requires a high Tome card which Ramos needs for summoning more spiders. My advice is to test it out to see if it works for you. (Note: In the interest of full disclosure, I am somewhat biased against the Brass Arachnid since I greatly dislike its model. I recommend that you try it out, though, since some people swear by it.)

When Steam Arachnids form a swarm, the swarm comes into play at full health and ready to be activated. However, it counts as being summoned so it comes into play with the Slow condition and cannot perform Interact actions on its first turn.

Won a game once by the brash arachnid giving reactivate to a damaged steam arachnid; my opponent scoffed at the concept at the time as i was behind two points - the arachnid activated, healed for bleeding edge, moved and moved.  Then next activation moved and swarmed with two other arachnids - the swarm then activated and discarded all scheme markers denying the opponent points. pulled me back into the lead by one point. 
Highly situational but the brash arachnid is a possible game changer and generally gets ignored. 

Definitely worth powering through and having more games with the brass arachnid.. It must have more depths yet left unplumbed.

[MR TORGUE]

Just now, MR TORGUE said:

'brash arachnid'

heh.

[Fictor]

T1

Toolkit gives Howard + to atack (better than dmg for 4 minimun)

Joss kill toolkit for scrap

Ramos use scrap for 2/3 arachid

Sobreactivate enemy

Brass arachid reactivate Howard

Howard discard imbuyed energied to charge with + or if Ramos is near ++ and flurry, reactivate and flurry, kill most important model/master or 2 and use the triger to drain all SS

Win the game xD

[Rurouni Benshin]

8 hours ago, The Warlock said:

Thanks, this is quite helpful indeed

Activation is Spider -> Joss -> Ramos then to get scrap and spiders further up field? Reading over Arcane Reservoir and Ramos's reliance on tomes, I can see how it'd be useful (huzzah for 20:20 hindsight). Also, as Joss drops two scrap per construct killed it's useful with combat mechanic to heal summoned arachnids?

Pretty new to Arcanists and Malifaux itself - only been playing for a month.

 

A Mobile Tool Kit would serve the same purpose here, if all you're doing is sacrificing it for 2 scrap markers.  Most importantly, it'll save you 1 ss.

[Breng77]

See that needs too much going right to happen for me to use it.

it needs high cards for summoning and reactivate, needs activation control, needs clear path for Howard, needs him not to flub his attacks etc.  then he dies turn 2 if you don't get luck.

[LunarSol]

Ramos is definitely a master I find easy to fill up a crew with great options, but out of curiosity, how few models are people comfortable running with him.  With a rather expensive set of personal upgrades, Joss/Howard/Johan/"thing that dies to give you scrap" alone can fill up a list pretty quick.  Obviously Ramos himself goes a long way towards making up the difference, but how low are people comfortable with?

[Rurouni Benshin]

Just now, Breng77 said:

See that needs too much going right to happen for me to use it.

it needs high cards for summoning and reactivate, needs activation control, needs clear path for Howard, needs him not to flub his attacks etc.  then he dies turn 2 if you don't get luck.

Not necessarily.  The Mobile Tool Kit only has 3 Wds, and so long as it doesn't get out of Cg range of Joss, Joss can easily kill it (even taking into account the Black Joker coming up once).  Ramos may not be able to summon 3 Spiders on every turn, but at the very least he can summon 2.  All things considered, that's not the worst thing in the world.  The Brass Arachnid can get silly too, if you have the cards to make the 3 Reactivates happen in a single turn too.  Not something I'd rely on, but funny if you get it to work.  I wouldn't attempt to try it unless I had the cards in my hand though.

[Adran]

29 minutes ago, Breng77 said:

See that needs too much going right to happen for me to use it.

it needs high cards for summoning and reactivate, needs activation control, needs clear path for Howard, needs him not to flub his attacks etc.  then he dies turn 2 if you don't get luck.

To be fair,  you don't have to commit to anything other than killing the tool kit for scrap until about 8 activations into the turn, well after you know what hand you have, and after you know how the opponent has moved that turn. Nimble, fast walk, charge, flurry, Nimble away if it all goes wrong on a Ml 7 minimum damage 4 model is about as close to a sure thing as you can get for model removal. 

any 8 and a stone gets you 2 spiders. Any 10 can get Reactivate on Howard. Ml 7 doesn't need much support from the hand to hit when you have 5+attempts at it. 

The 30 ish ss talked about here already gives 6 activations  before you need to start to move Howard, who has 18" threat on activation 1. 

It won't always work but it's a fairly solid plan A. 

[madaxeman]

I find that summoning 2 spiders is almost better than summoning 3:

• - its easier (and so more reliable) and uses less SS
• - they come in with just 1 wound (after applying armour), so heal up t full strength immediately they activate
• - you still have good cards left for other stuff
• - if you set out and expect/plan to do this every turn, you don't end up getting annoyed about having the cards for summoning three ! 

I like the use of the Toolbox to "upgrade Howards attack before it dies" idea in here, but one of the other non-obvious-to-a-newbie "tricks" is that Brass Arachnid can add a tome to itself, and then re-wire itself in its first activation, and that means it can then reactivate 2 different models in its second (re) activation. But the dammed thing is very slow, and has a fairly short range, so is definitely not a no-brainer include.

[Breng77]

2 hours ago, Adran said:

To be fair,  you don't have to commit to anything other than killing the tool kit for scrap until about 8 activations into the turn, well after you know what hand you have, and after you know how the opponent has moved that turn. Nimble, fast walk, charge, flurry, Nimble away if it all goes wrong on a Ml 7 minimum damage 4 model is about as close to a sure thing as you can get for model removal. 

any 8 and a stone gets you 2 spiders. Any 10 can get Reactivate on Howard. Ml 7 doesn't need much support from the hand to hit when you have 5+attempts at it. 

The 30 ish ss talked about here already gives 6 activations  before you need to start to move Howard, who has 18" threat on activation 1. 

It won't always work but it's a fairly solid plan A. 

Sure you don't need to do it, but I disagree on it being a solid plan A but that probably goes back to playstyle,  I find that against good opponents and strong models the chances of killing something better than Howard is low.  Now in frame for murder it is a great plan, I just find it a plan where you are trading him sir something and at 12 stones that needs to be a really good something.

[The Warlock]

Ok, so the brass arachnid is situational but can shine if I have good cards.

Where can I find a mobile toolkit? I can't seem to find one doing a cursory google search :/

[Bengt]

9 hours ago, The Warlock said:

Ok, so the brass arachnid is situational but can shine if I have good cards.

Where can I find a mobile toolkit? I can't seem to find one doing a cursory google search :/

It hasn't been released in plastic yet and the metal one has been out of production for a while. If you want to proxy/build one you can see what it used to look like by googling "mobile toolkit malifaux".