"End of the turn" summoning

[Erik1978]

Carrion Emissay has a rule that states "At the end of the turn, remove all friendly shard markers. Before removing the markers, a mindless zombie may be summoned in base contact with them."

Does that mean the mindless zombie is summoned but can't activate, since the turn "has ended" or does it have it's 1 action?

Similar with Ashes and Dust when it reforms, then the new ashes and dust is summoned "at the end of the turn".

Leveticus might have something similar when appearing instead of his hollow waifs.

 

[Adran]

They return after the time when they can activate. 

[Tawg]

Page 34 of the big book states:

Quote

Turn Sequence

1. Draw Phase
2. Initiative Phase
3. Activation Phase
4. End Phase

and since all models are Activated during the Activation Phase, I would say it is fairly clear that anything appearing during the End Phase (Perhaps also a Witchling could appear, due to death by burning in a Criid Crew?  There is probably many more examples as well) does not have a chance to Activation nor generate AP (Which is the first step in Activating a model).

 

EDIT:

As an interesting point that I just realized I have never noticed before:  If what I stated is in fact true (Which I believe it is), then the summoned model gains Slow during the End Phase, and it should persist into the next turn.  I don't know that I have ever played that correctly against the Carrion Emissary, I think the Mindless Zombies have always simply acted as normal the following turn, which should be incorrect.

However the non-interact clause of Summoning should not effect the model being summoned during the End Phase, since that only effects them the turn they are summoned.  So the end result should be a Slow model that may interact the first time it gets a chance.

[santaclaws01]

26 minutes ago, Tawg said:

Page 34 of the big book states:

and since all models are Activated during the Activation Phase, I would say it is fairly clear that anything appearing during the End Phase (Perhaps also a Witchling could appear, due to death by burning in a Criid Crew?  There is probably many more examples as well) does not have a chance to Activation nor generate AP (Which is the first step in Activating a model).

 

EDIT:

As an interesting point that I just realized I have never noticed before:  If what I stated is in fact true (Which I believe it is), then the summoned model gains Slow during the End Phase, and it should persist into the next turn.  I don't know that I have ever played that correctly against the Carrion Emissary, I think the Mindless Zombies have always simply acted as normal the following turn, which should be incorrect.

However the non-interact clause of Summoning should not effect the model being summoned during the End Phase, since that only effects them the turn they are summoned.  So the end result should be a Slow model that may interact the first time it gets a chance.

Mindless zombies should always be slow anyways, so that's not an issue either way. But slow goes away when the model generates AP, not at the end of the turn, so there's no issue with end of turn summoning and slow.

[Tawg]

2 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

Mindless zombies should always be slow anyways, so that's not an issue either way. But slow goes away when the model generates AP, not at the end of the turn, so there's no issue with end of turn summoning and slow.

Ahh, then the Mindless have not been played incorrect, because they can't .

I wasn't saying there is an issue with the rules, just that, in answering that question, it's the first time I ever thought about that.  So I may have played it wrong in the past, forgetting to apply Slow or keep it on the summoned model.  But considering the Mindless Zombie is probably the most common End Phase summon, it probably just hasn't even come up.

[Erik1978]

So ashes and dust is in fact, slow, the turn after he "ressurects"? Since it is summoned.

[zeeblee]

Except for the part where Ashes and Dust is immune to all conditions.  I think end-of-phase summoning is mostly an issue for Sonnia and McMourning with their summon-on-death-via-condition abilities.

[Dassenkop]

NRBH but Leveticus can come back if the situation is right at the end of the turn, right? If so do you still count him for VP purposes for that same turn in case he is positioned correctly for, for example, Turf War?

Just wondering since we had this question when we played him for a first time last week and didn't find a conclusive answer at the time.

[solkan]

12 minutes ago, Dassenkop said:

NRBH but Leveticus can come back if the situation is right at the end of the turn, right? If so do you still count him for VP purposes for that same turn in case he is positioned correctly for, for example, Turf War?

Just wondering since we had this question when we played him for a first time last week and didn't find a conclusive answer at the time.

From the End Phase

1. Upkeep
The Upkeep Step is where the end of the Turn bookkeeping takes place. Effects that do not list a specific duration, or which end at the end of the Turn, end during the Upkeep Step.

That's the same time that you would resolve any abilities that happen at the End of the Turn, like Dreamer's Imagination Land.  Because there's no other step for that to happen.  For that matter, that's the step you resolve something like Poison +5 in, even though the condition isn't going to end and is just going to reduce to Poison +4.

The step after that is when VP are earned:

2. Earn Victory Points
Crews will earn VP for Strategies and Schemes (see pg. 66) that take effect at the end of each Turn during this step.

 

[BigHammer]

18 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Mindless zombies should always be slow anyways, so that's not an issue either way. But slow goes away when the model generates AP, not at the end of the turn, so there's no issue with end of turn summoning and slow.

Agreed on the Mindless Zombies point, but Slow actually ends at the end of a model's activation, not the start of it. Thus a model with Slow has Slow while it is activating, even after it has generated AP (and this is the reason that models that gain Fast or Slow during their activation gain no benefit/suffer no consequences from those conditions, as they end well before they next generate AP).