Frustrated Playing Ophelia

[Soulless Life]

So, what are people's solutions for playing against her?  Regardless of who I play, it seems, I just get shot off the board before I really get to do anything.  Between Rami sniping someone off first activation, Ophelia blowing away 1-2 people a turn, Merris lighting me on fire, Rafael going bonkers, and all the rest, I can't seem to do anything.  Super frustrated, and I had to walk away from the last game.  I don't mind losing, but against her and Misaki, I don't even get to play the game.  

[Artiee]

How much Terrain are you playing?  Do you have cover?

[Kirby]

You definitely need plenty of terrain when fighting against Gremlins, and Ophelia especially.  What master(s) and crew(s) are you using?  Von Schill and Freikorps can do well with Hard To Kill and lots of healing and condition removal.  Freikorps Trappers are a nice response to Rami's sniping since he can peg Rami back or kill off Slop Haulers.

[Rat King]

If you push all the terrain to one side of the table, it should still cover 1/3 to 1/2 of the table. 
If you're playing with less than that, it could be the problem.

Keep in mind also, that hills don't count towards this, since they let you see over stuff, essentially making them anti-terrain.

[Dirial]

How well do you fare against other ranged Masters like Sonnia, Dita or Rasputina? Is Ophelia the issue, or is it the ranged aspect?

[Jafar]

If I hear Gremlins I take Hans. Few of games I mostly won, because he killed something at first turn (for example slop hauler).

As someone mentioned VS is good, I take some Freikorps models, Hans nad Rusty. Rusty for summoning so I won't be outactivated so badly

 

[valhallan42nd]

Who is your chosen master? Most masters have unique solutions to the gremlin problem: VS's quasi HtK aura and armor, Tara's 6 shot counter sniper list, Hamlin and Levi can take Crooligans (who have a soft cover aura). I'm sure there's more, though.

 

[Soulless Life]

Playing with about 1/3-1/2 the table covered.  

I have everything available to Outcasts.  I played in M1, and always played outcasts and did well with them, so when the pretty new models came out, I started rebuying all my Malifaux.  

I usually play Viktorias, Tara,  and Leveticus with a smattering of Hamelin.  Haven't really busted into Jack Daw or Von Schill yet (I only play with painted stuff, they're still on the table).  

As far as trouble masters, the only two I have legitimate trouble with are Misaki (that damn Smoke Bombs upgrade) and Ophelia.  Everyone else I can at least do something against.  

Valhallan42nd: Tara 6 shot counter sniper list?  Never heard of such a thing.  

 

[CapnBloodbeard]

How are your Viks getting shot off the board?  They should be hopping up the field in cover until they're ready to strike. I got frustrated against Gremlins the other day (my recent post in this forum), but that was more because I couldn't kill anything because of the goddamn Squeal trigger.  Left me thinking that Gremlins are virtually a hard counter for any charging master.  

[Math Mathonwy]

17 hours ago, Soulless Life said:

Playing with about 1/3-1/2 the table covered.

How much of it is LOS blocking?

[Adran]

Ophelia effectively ignores cover and can do enough damage to remove a Vik in 1 shot.  That can be hard to avoid on some boards. 

The Vik Slingshot can work quite effectively against Gremlins, as you get a model to move a long distance and put out the hurt without them getting to react. But the downside is you are fragile, and if you get your placement wrong, you will die. If there isn't plenty of Blocking terrain, then I wouldn't bother trying this. 

Tara herself is a fairly hard counter to Ophelia. That hole in the chest will largely keep her safe from so many attacks. 

 

[Soulless Life]

The squeal trigger is one of the big problems.  I can indeed get a vik into combat.  They then squeel away, and proceed to shoot the balls off of everything.  

Think I may try Tara against him.  

[CapnBloodbeard]

Yeah, I feel like Squeel is a hard counter to the slingshot.  Having to spend 2AP on a single attack really kills the effectiveness of the Viks.  I almost feel like you're better off using Oathkeeper on Pokey Vik to slingshot Shooty Vik to about 3-4" away so she can shoot, and even after Squeel they're in range of another shot.

Aside from that, if you slingshot you HAVE TO make that first shot count, so buff the bejeesus out of her....which is useless against anything with high wounds, that you're unlikely to cause severe against or that can use SS to prevent damage.

 

Slingshot then Squeel means you have 2 Viks completely open.....

[Math Mathonwy]

9 hours ago, CapnBloodbeard said:

Yeah, I feel like Squeel is a hard counter to the slingshot.  Having to spend 2AP on a single attack really kills the effectiveness of the Viks.  I almost feel like you're better off using Oathkeeper on Pokey Vik to slingshot Shooty Vik to about 3-4" away so she can shoot, and even after Squeel they're in range of another shot.

Squeel is a Push away from the Attacker. It's pretty easy to stop, though it might need some set-up so you can't blindly execture the Vik-slingshot but need to think a bit.

[CapnBloodbeard]

How do you stop it then?  Backing them into a corner is quite situation-specific, and any half-competent Gremlins player should be aware of that anyway.  Even if you manage to get 2 into combat (which can be difficult), you're still depending on them being in the right place.

[Adran]

if they are in a group of models, then its pretty easy to make sure the line of the push hits another model before they leave your Ml Range. Might mean you aren't in quite as nice a position as you wanted to be, but thats the choice to make. 

Also if you are expecting them to squee away, so you are only getting the one attack, make it a good one.  You might be better to walk with Pokety Vik, Focus and then use Ml expert and make sure that the hit is a truely solid one. There isn't very much with Squee that survives an attack that does 8 damage and ignores most defenses. 

And if it is going to survive that and has squee, then its probably not a good slingshot target. 

[FacelessOne]

I had some decent luck against Ophelia with Daw and Lovelace combo. Lovelace is handy as she stops people from squeeling away if close enough to her. And Daw himself in cover is hard for snipers to hit. Convict gunslingers are also handy if you need to counter snipers. Their defensive trigger lets them shoot back regardless of range. Daw also is an effective counter to the pigapult if you bring a strongarm suit. After tormenting him, with scout the field you can charge up 28 inches from your board edge on turn one (ignoring terrain and LOS on the charge). Just watch out for moon shinobi, as they get pluses to hit and damage Daw.

[MagicGis]

Why dont you just use the Misaki smoke package yourself if you think it handels shooting that well... 

 

Misaki can hire 4 last blossom and smoke and shadows is a split faction upgrade. You can bring Yamaziko to not even have to give it to misaki. 3 models with smoke should be enough.

Add in an Hodge Effigy etc... and you fight one thing that hives you trouble with the other learning the weaknesses of Misaki at the same time

[izikial]

I would recommend jack daw for all the damage auras as they don't trigger squeal

Tara as she targets wp alot letting you avoid alot of squeals, and burrying helps even out activations

or Ann Lovelace with anyone, make her a sister and chuck her in with the viks. Drop her out of taras bum on some grems. Hamlin can obey and pipe her up the bored. Vonschil can use the emissary to stop randomization and then fire over her head

p.s. If grouped use blasts, the target squeals but the collateral wont

[Khoregard]

Clever use of ashes (2) action pretty much disables squeal as long add you bring one other sister for the ride

[dropdeadcriminal]

+I Pay Better, 2 Trappers and Hans. It will eat your entire hand, but that is 6 focused sniper shots. Definitely an egg all in one basket kind of play, but if you are having that much trouble with them it may be worth it to try.