"Pact", and you!

[Rurouni Benshin]

Hi all,

Recently picked up Lilith's crew box, and I'm going over all the upgrades available to the faction.  Came across "Pact", and wanted to know your take on it.  It's situationally great, but is it worth the 1 ss to be able to cheat the BJ on the one (or up to 3) model(s) it's on?

Please share your experiences, whether their positive or negative.  Thanks!

[D_acolyte]

So the one time I wanted to have it and did not is when I was taking Nekima attacking a terrifying 10 model and drew the black joker. This left her open to die without doing anything, and die she did.

[Rurouni Benshin]

lol, well that definitely sucks.  But would it encourage you to take the upgrade on her for future games?

[D_acolyte]

It is one of those things where you do not need it till you really need it. So if your one of those player that is overly paranoid about the black joker, it is worth it, if not or if you run up grade tight then I would be just fine without it.

I always think about it and then I tend to skip it but it is always tempting especially on Huggy or Nekima because they tend to be in great danger when it goes wrong.

[Tinweasel]

I view it as the Neverborn version of December's Pawn for Raspy.

 

i have it in my lists to take for models that are going to burn through a lot of cards in a turn, like Teddy in a Dreamer crew, say. You could (I would) have Teddy loaded with Pact for statistical reasons. Between 3 pushes + Ml actions from The Dreamer and to hit/damage flips, plus possible cheating, Gobble You Up, and then a Flurry with all those to hit/damage flips plus possible cheating I figger you could cycle through maybe a third of the deck just on Teddy. Being able to override a Black Joker and surprise the hell out of your opponent? Priceless!

[lusciousmccabe]

I never really take it. I've played games where I would have done better if I had (no damage after setting up to Paralyze Killjoy who'd popped up right in front of the Dreamer comes to mind), but a single Soulstone has also swung a lot of games for me and tends to give you more flexibility.

[Nical]

I agree with Lusciousmccabe. Pact is too situational upgrade. For Example, if you draw(not flips) Black Joker, you don't need to use Pact. And if your non-Pact model filps Black Joker / your Hand is empty, Pact never works in these situations, neither. So I think normal 1 SS is usually better than Pact and we have other important upgrades.

[Ryin]

if it was more soulstones but crew-wide, or maybe an aura or something, I think it might see more play. It's often not worth putting on a Master because they usually have better things to do with their upgrade slots, and any other model either also faces the same problem or, it's a crap shoot at best. The other thing is, even the times when the black joker is flipped, it's still a small amount of THOSE flips that are game changing and USUALLY there's very little that isn't recoverable from somehow

[zeeblee]

Bag of Props Collodi may be the only truly efficient carrier of Pact due to the sheer number of cards he can personally flip. Even there it might not be worth it though.

[Munindk]

I see it as an insurance policy and try to weigh the risk vs the premium. With Pact (and similar opgrades) I think the the risk is too low to justify the cost.

[Adran]

I've used if for the dreamer as I needed to get the 4 waking a turn, and so couldn't risk the failing due to black joker. 

It is entirely insurance. If there is one model you want and need to always perform, then I would say it is worth the stone to give you that control. 

At that point it is largely on your play style. 

If you flip 10+ cards on a model every turn, then look at it. (remember that is both Attack and defence). If you flip 20+ cards a turn with it consistently, then look very seriously at it. 

[moxypoo]

There's lots of good advice in this thread, and I have to agree with the majority that I never use it since it's effect so rarely comes up and is completely unpredictable. Also, I try to layer multiple redundant layers into my lists and strategies, so failure of one particular model doesn't destroy my entire plan (even though it still does sometimes!).

However, if I was going to use Pact, it would be on a model that could flip a large number or cards like Teddy with Dreamer or Bag of Props Collodi (both of which have been mentioned in this thread). It's probably also only worth using on a very high value model, such as your master, whose AP is very valuable.

[Fetid Strumpet]

If it was available in Ressers it would also make it's way onto models which have abilities that can only be used once per turn. Having the black come up, either on the attack or damage flip of Seamus' gun, or when Molly tries her Whispered secret is just heartbreaking, and I'd certainly pay 1 SS on either of them to have insurance that the black couldn't screw up their flips.

Essentially its worth it on a high value model that you count on their attacks working, and not much of a good investment any other time I feel.

[PeregrineFalcon]

I almost always take it on Barbaros and Nekima for reasons above. For them to be effective you need them to succeed on everything they do and they (for my playstyle) are the two best candidates. But I also agree with other concepts mentioned above.

[dominus nox]

I'll always take Pact  with summoning Dreamer as I'll generally only try to summon models that I have the card in hand for.