"Net Lists"

[Mxbedlam]

So Malifaux is touted as being a game where you have large amounts of freedom when constructing lists, and at the table no less. However, I have noticed that some masters are so themed that the lists are nearly set in stone to make the use of them. How flexible are you when making a list? Do you pick a master then make the list or make the list and then pick the master to go with it? Are there any "crutch" models you rely on too much? (Definitely the Illuminated for me) What solution do you use when you find yourself playing the same list over and over again?

[D_acolyte]

Neverborn wise I play Pandora, Dreamer, Liliths as my main 3 and have dabbled with Colodi and Lynch but only 2 games with Lucius.

So how I build my list is I start with master and then pull out everything I want and cut or add as needed. I find my main 3 do not need to stay with a "theme" as much as Colodi or Lynch, even my Dreamer tend to only by 3 models constantly for a total of 15 stones (a teddy and 2 daydream) the rest tends to very.

It is hard to find a list that i have with out at least one of the fallowing models: Teddy, Nekima, Mature Nephilim or Barbaros. If I have the points and do not know what to add I grab a Young Nephilim. I almost always have Retribution's Eye a min 3 damage enforcer.

My biggest recommendation to brake the monotony of list is say today i am playing with these 3 in my list no matter what.

[Ludvig]

It's very easy to get stuck in picking the same models a lot but I don't find that all my lists come out identical.

When I get bored with my lists I force myself to pick a certain model and try to make it work. You can also force yourself to not pick your go to model. 

I think it's essential to do if you want to challenge yourself and grow as a player.

[Munindk]

8 hours ago, Mrbedlam said:

I have noticed that some masters are so themed that the lists are nearly set in stone to make the use of them. How flexible are you when making a list?

When you say "themed" do you mean models that are thematic fluffwise or models with obvious synergies?

[Adran]

Every time I will look at my mission and decide how I am going to do this. 

Sometimes this will be crew based, and I'll then pick a master to support what I want, othertimes It will be master based, and I'll then pick the crew to support the master. 

Even if you are playing your list on a narrow theme, there is still a decent amount of choices to consider. Looking at Jacob as a model with a tight obvious theme, for example, are you heading with Good Huggy, or suicidal huggy? How many Illuminated do you take? what Upgrades are on those that can take them? Are you looking at other models with a discard theme? (Tots and Gupps spring to mind in neverborn). Are you going to pair Graves and Tannen? Do you want the tar pits of the Depleted?

 

If I am just learning a crew or a new model then I will try and limit the changes I make game to game so I get a better understandign of what they do,  and how things work together, but I am not the kind of person who is going to play a fixed list. Even my Campaign lists are quite variable once I gain some upgrades and so actually have a choice

 

 

 

 

[Patzer]

I try to stay as flexible as possible. When hiring a crew I try to choice models that are the best at achieving strategy and schemes while denying VP for the opponent. With that said, there are a bunch of usual suspects depending on the pool and which master I bring. 

The first thing that comes to mind is what master is best suited for the strategy. The focus then shifts to models who can do schemes. Be it speed, tricks, or hitting power that is required. The final stage is everything else. Models who can do the strategy as well as deny victory points. All of these groups are overlapping, but they must be balanced in some sense, meaning that they must be thought about separately. 

The models I tend to bring regardless of master are Primordial Magic, Doppelganger, Mr Graves, and Johan. Illuminated needs to have an honorable mention, but they are in the second tier* of hiring for me. Overall I like models with a high minimum damage and who doesn't rely on other models to perform a task. 

*NB, I am not calling them second tier models. 

[HPN]

At the moment, especially due to my noobness, i have to admit my broblem about writing a neverborn list without the Doppleganger. 50 stones are really 43+"the girl" for me.

Flipping initiative shifts from a thrilling moment that needs to be carefully planned one turn in advance to a mere formality, and there's always atleast a turn each game were i would have happily paid half my stones for her, to be able to go first, so i never regretted taking her. Even if the list has nothing interesting to copy (and well, this also means no heavy hitters and no ranged/tool models, so what is the list supposed to be made of, Alps?), she is a decent scheme runner on the flanks, and might happens to get some interesting enemy ability to lend for a turn.

 

Recently i played a game against a friend who was using Trixiebelle, so the two Ill Omens were almost "neutering" each others. I had forgot how painful was to flip initiative without having control on it! XD

 

[RobertSirc]

My "crutch" model is the Primordial Magic. If it is Lilith or Pandora I just almost auto include it. I recently picked up the Lucius box set. Looked at the scribe and thanks what is OURS for the Primordial Magic. I look at the scheme pool first then try to anticipate what my opponent might take before i select a master and build a list

[Math Mathonwy]

31 minutes ago, RobertSirc said:

My "crutch" model is the Primordial Magic. If it is Lilith or Pandora I just almost auto include it.

I think that Cherub has his place in Lilith lists with the correct Scheme pool.

[RobertSirc]

1 minute ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I think that Cherub has his place in Lilith lists with the correct Scheme pool.

Not arguing with you on this. I am addicted to that extra card draw, hard to give that up.

[Math Mathonwy]

6 minutes ago, RobertSirc said:

Not arguing with you on this. I am addicted to that extra card draw, hard to give that up.

I know how you feel. I always try to somehow fit Arcane Reservoir into my Arcanist lists and it isn't always easy!

[Strangely Brown]

My Nicodem list is almost always Nicodem with full cache, maniacal laugh, love thy master & undertaker, Mortimer with corpse bloat, Chiaki, and a Nurse. I them have 21 points to spend on opponent, start & scheme related models.

 

I justify it to myself since I pretty much summon in a bit of everything over the course of a few strats, but I have promised myself a break from Nico once Gertfaux is done.

[D_acolyte]

In first ed I felt my arcanists where pretty much locked into a list depending on the master, but I think that that is less the case in second ed.

[Mxbedlam]

Thanks for the replies. When I said themed lists I mean more the thematic models, such as Nephilim for Lilith, Puppets for Collodi, Brilliance models for Lynch, etc. I will say it is very hard not to bring a doppleganger in nearly any list I play and with good reason. The only reason I don't bring primordial more often is that I've been on a Collodi kick and I love the movement shenanigans that a marionette or two provide.

What I've found though is that with Collodi I tend to bring an illuminated, stitched together, doppleganger, trapper, brutal effigy and a scheme runner of some sort. I have a hard time deviating from this path as its both effective and works well with him. I wanna try bunraku with him, but I see how great a personal puppet candidate the Illuminated is and its hard to steer away.

[orkdork]

I have what I call the "neverborn allstars", which are basically a set of models that have insane synergy:

Nekima

Doppelganger

Lilitu or Graves

Honorable mentions are Johan and primordial magic.

From there, it's basically about what is the right mix of waldgeists, silurids, effigy, and madnesses. Tots show up sometimes as well. Depleted and illuminated should be in my mix, but I just love my trees too much. They were my first wyrd models

If I go Zoraida, you will see Iggy and possibly juju.

If I go Dreamer, you will see daydreams and no Johan. 

If I go Lilith or Pandora, you will see primordial magic. Johan is extra likely with Lilith.

 

 

 

[lusciousmccabe]

I often find myself padding my lists with "power duos" like Mr. Tannen + Mr. Graves, Candy + Iggy, or Doppelganger + ...another model. 

It's nice to have models you know will synergise with eachother even if the rest of your crew is tightly themed and doesn't interact with them. Usually I think of them as a unit but a lot of the time they can end up creeping in because I wanted half the pair and the synergy makes the other one that much more attractive. 

[thebarbalag]

It's easy to get into a meta rut, seeing your regular opponents take the same/similar crews, and doing the same in response, then you hit a tournament or convention and see someone running one of your favorite Masters in a way that totally blows your mind. This happened to me last Gencon when I watched Joel (from Malifools) run Collodi with no Marionettes, and two Trappers. The list was devastating, and barely resembled what in my head was "a Collodi list."

[moxypoo]

7 hours ago, thebarbalag said:

It's easy to get into a meta rut, seeing your regular opponents take the same/similar crews, and doing the same in response, then you hit a tournament or convention and see someone running one of your favorite Masters in a way that totally blows your mind. This happened to me last Gencon when I watched Joel (from Malifools) run Collodi with no Marionettes, and two Trappers. The list was devastating, and barely resembled what in my head was "a Collodi list."

This is a really good point, and it is easy to get comfortable with a list and then never make anything other than small tweaks. My group has sort of a mix, where some people take the same models repeatedly, while others change their list every game. For me, I have a core list of models that I like with each master to fall back on if I know I need to win a particular game. This core list tends to be models that I've used in many different situations, which makes me familiar with all their nuances. Once I add the core list to my crew, I try to select a few familiar models that synergize well with the list or are particularly useful for the scheme pool. Outside of competitive games, I like to mess around and try unorthodox crew combinations.

To answer the OP's questions: I pick a master that should do well at accomplishing my objective pool and then build a crew around him/her/it. If I can't decide I default to Zoraida, because she's my best Neverborn master, in addition to being able to run nearly any crew she wants. As for crutch models, Silurids make appearances pretty much whenever I need to get to locations and interact, while I have an extremely difficult time leaving a Nurse out of any Zoraida crew.

[Mxbedlam]

Nurse in Z lists is like peanut butter with jelly, just feels right.

[orkdork]

On 1/12/2016 at 7:54 AM, lusciousmccabe said:

I often find myself padding my lists with "power duos" like Mr. Tannen + Mr. Graves, Candy + Iggy, or Doppelganger + ...another model. 

It's nice to have models you know will synergise with eachother even if the rest of your crew is tightly themed and doesn't interact with them. Usually I think of them as a unit but a lot of the time they can end up creeping in because I wanted half the pair and the synergy makes the other one that much more attractive. 

13 hours ago, Mrbedlam said:

Nurse in Z lists is like peanut butter with jelly, just feels right.

And here is how my list construction so often goes

"Nurses are awesome with Voodoo Doll for the paralyze and Obey for the utility"

"Johan is great with Nurses to clear paralyze off after a heal"

"Mr. Graves or Lilitu is great for speeding up Johan, Nurses and beaters"

"Doppleganger loves to copy Graves/Lilitu/Johan/Nurses"

"Nekima loves obey and if you have doppleganger, she suddenly can have a Mi7 3" 4/5//6 attack"

And lo' and behold, I'm back to the Neverborn Allstars once again  

 

I blame Khyodee and his podcast  

[Sybarite]

Why is Johana almost an auto include with lilith? is it because of the knockback?

[orkdork]

On 1/28/2016 at 0:21 PM, Sybarite said:

Why is Johana almost an auto include with lilith? is it because of the knockback?

Johan is a monstrously efficient piece, except that he is slow. Lilith mitigates that almost entirely with Tangled Shadows. It's also why Lilith is the best master for Bad Juju (though Bad Juju is not usually the best henchman for Lilith).

[Sybarite]

Oh okay

[Joel]

In picking a crew I follow these questions:

what master am I in the mood to play? 

- sometimes I just wanna play a given master that I am enjoying, or haven't used in a while, just because. Enjoying my masters powers is a huge thing for me.

For the strategy/scheme mix, where will I want my master to be on the board? 

- on a more skill-based level, if a scheme pool/strat mix is interact heavy/ combat heavy/ movement heavy which way do I want to go about achieving my goals.  All masters can do these things, but some have an easy time at some of them than others.

which schemes will I pick, which ones will I bluff and vice verse for my opponent?

- this informs my model selection to go with my master. I account for all 4 where possible.

what's the terrain like?

- tweaks my selections