Kirai tips?

[jonahmaul]

8 hours ago, Mantis Toboggan said:

Honestly, I almost never use the Seishin for the +2Ca, I find them much more frustrating for the opponent as healers. Especially if you don't immediatly use them can build up a few. Nothing seems more frustrating for opponents than to have wail on Izamu and get him a few dots away from death and them a bunch of wee ghosts run up and undo all their work. And like I said, handy for getting funky angles on Swirling Spirits.

You should have enough Seishin around to do both!

[Adran]

the +2 Ca is very useful when you don't get the great hand, and allows the moderate cards to get you your summons off. 

But the heal is also good. 

Whats best will depend on that moment. 

[Pyrflamme]

I'll hopefully be playing Kirai in a tournament this weekend. It's single-master with emphasis on thematic crews (actual prizes are randomly drawn with enough in the pool for everyone, placement prizes are cheap trophies). As such, I don't think I'll be taking a Flesh Construct in general. Has anyone tried summoning off Izamu t1/maybe t2 and using his innate heal to mitigate it?

[MEGAHORSE]

4 minutes ago, Pyrflamme said:

I'll hopefully be playing Kirai in a tournament this weekend. It's single-master with emphasis on thematic crews (actual prizes are randomly drawn with enough in the pool for everyone, placement prizes are cheap trophies). As such, I don't think I'll be taking a Flesh Construct in general. Has anyone tried summoning off Izamu t1/maybe t2 and using his innate heal to mitigate it?

So long as he is safe from attacks from the opponent, it's not a horrible move. I prefer to summon off Seishin/Mindless Zombies/Flesh Constructs/Necropunks(Joe Wood uses a single hire of a Night Terror for turn 1 summons), who either are expendable, or heal themselves and are durable enough. 

[Pyrflamme]

12 minutes ago, MEGAHORSE said:

So long as he is safe from attacks from the opponent, it's not a horrible move. I prefer to summon off Seishin/Mindless Zombies/Flesh Constructs/Necropunks(Joe Wood uses a single hire of a Night Terror for turn 1 summons), who either are expendable, or heal themselves and are durable enough. 

Alrighty. I'll also obviously have Seishin/Night Terrors available, and got approval to use the Emissary (have Kirai's avatar) so Mindless are also  possibility. Just really wanted to ask about Izumu.

[BigHammer]

I have, in a pinch, used Izamu, but I prefer to use Seishin, Ikiryo and Mindless Zombies (I often give Kirai Maniacal Laugh for this purpose) as the basis for my summons. Tactically killing one of your own models with a summon can have its uses (to remove a model with Distract/Cursed Object/etc on it, for example, or to prevent an enemy killing it), in which case just about anything is fair game.

Izamu himself isn't a bad target not only for his own heal, but also because the Lost Love (if you use it) can heal him relatively easily. Between the two of them it's very easy to get one or two summons and have Izamu back near his full wounds, while Datsue Ba can keep him moving forward (and I use a Doxy for the same thing as well).

[Obeisance]

The two list set format was the next event. 

[Pyrflamme]

Sorry, another question. If Raspy casts through a model with Frozen Heart and tags a qualifying model for Malevolence, I can drop Ikiryo right on her and cut off any further attacks besides the one on her upgrade, yeah?

[Tayne]

30 minutes ago, Pyrflamme said:

Sorry, another question. If Raspy casts through a model with Frozen Heart and tags a qualifying model for Malevolence, I can drop Ikiryo right on her and cut off any further attacks besides the one on her upgrade, yeah?

Yes, except that Raspy has a 0 close attack as well that she could use.

[jonahmaul]

Yeah don't summon off Izamu!  You don't want to cause him wounds if you can avoid it.  Seishin are your friends here.  One of our playgroup plays Kirai occasionally and he never hires a FC but uses Seishin to summon off instead.

[nunorod]

Last time I tried to go heavy on summoning as much as was possible every turn. And tried it without the FC It would consume a lot of seshin, and would deplete my hand because I would have to summon Seishin every turn and then regular summons. then I would have no seishin to heal or protect. So, The summoning needs to be toned down or have a FC not to sacrifice so many seishin.

And I was summoning Hanged and/or Shikome every turn!

[Dassenkop]

On 4-1-2016 at 2:53 AM, MEGAHORSE said:

Alternatively, you can use seishin as your summoning batteries and play support, hiring mostly beatsticks and support, and Swirling them in.

You mean summoning spirit of a summoned Seishin?

No card handy but I was thinking about this possibility last night.

Before this podcast it never occured to me that you can sommon spirits off 1 hit point undead/living/construct models thereby killing it. The resulting corpse (or scrap) can then be used for feeding a gaki some health points for example.

[Obeisance]

Rules question that came up in my game today.

Was playing Kirai vs. Somer. Opponent had annoying gassy mosquitoes.

First turn, I had two of them flying like 20" and sit in the middle of Lost Love, Imazu, Datsue Ba and a Gaki. They would have repeatedly passed through the melee zones of various models, including terror causers.

He said that flying models ignore all other models when moving. So no disengaging strikes/etc.

Then later, I had my Shikome engaged by Gremlin and wanted to move out, she'd need to take a disengaging strike.

My opponent was far more experienced than me, so I let both slide.  Both correct?

[jonahmaul]

Yes, you only need to take Disengaging Strikes if you start the move action engaged. Similarly you only take Horror duels if you target a model with the Terrifying rule or end a walk action in their engagement. Note that they can't just fly their full two move AP in one go. They have to land after the initial move (10" I assume but haven't got books to hand) then spend a second AP to complete the second move so firstly the must have room to land somewhere after the first AP, secondly if they end next to a Terrifying model they must take the Horror duel and thirdly if they're engaged after the first AP they must defend a disengaging strike to be able to make the second move action. 

[Obeisance]

Do you don't take disengaging strikes at all if you pass by an enemy model?

That seems.. weird.

I'm looking at the game through a lens coloured by six years of Warmachine.

[Bengt]

You are only subject to disengaging strikes when you declare the walk action, never during it. Also, Flight (and Incorporeal) does not prevent disengaging strikes, it only lets you move through other models once you get going (this is in the last paragraph on p 44).

[sinistercats]

So the issue would have been on the first Walk/Fly. If they were engaged at that point they'd have to do disengaging strikes.

It is weird after Warmachine. Hard to unlearn other games baggage sometimes!

[jonahmaul]

21 minutes ago, sinistercats said:

So the issue would have been on the first Walk/Fly. If they were engaged at that point they'd have to do disengaging strikes.

Not necessarily, it's whether you begin the Walk action engaged, not begin your activation engaged. So if you flew 10" and ended up landing in a models engagement range you would then have to defend a disengaging strike to move with your second AP. You can't 'combine' your two AP to do a single 20" move, they have to be completed as separate actions. 

[Obeisance]

I understand, thanks guys. 

 

You're playing Kirai against Gremlins. Table is fairly dense,lots of terrain. 

Stake a claim is the strategy (which reckless gremlins seem great at) 

Distant, deliver a message, assassinate, line in the sand, protect Territory. 

I picked deliver and protect Territory. What would you have taken? 

[Phototropic]

i would likely have taken the same but possibly distract since there are so many gremlins to give it too. gremlins have too many triggers to get out of combat and ways to reduce damage for assassinate. i would definitely have had dats hunting scheme runners and some necro punks dropping the claim markers. 

[Dassenkop]

Just wanted to double check that if Kirai, through her summoning, reduces a target model to 0 or less wounds that model is regarded as being killed by Kirai's summoning and hence drops a corpse or scrap maker but also activates the upgrade (forgot the name) that summons a seishin in btb contact if within 6 inch of the model with the upgrade and could drop a scheme market through activating another upgrade (forgot the name, something with spirit whisper) - right?

So by having Kirai 'kill' a target model through her summoning I could potentially end up with a corpse or scrap marker (if target living, undead or construct), a summoned seishin in btb and a scheme marker.

[Tayne]

Yes. She is dealing damage to them, rather than sacrificing them so they drop markers.

As for your plan, it gets better if you use a drowned. Walk it forwards, drop a scheme marker. Put up the aura from the upgrade (spirit beacon/whispers? I can't remember which), then summon off the drowned enough to kill it. You can a second scheme marker from the aura and a third from Finish The Job, plus a seshin for discarding a card.

That's set up/detonate the charges/plant explosives/spring the trap done, or a whole load of schemes for Philip to munch on. 

[jonahmaul]

33 minutes ago, Tayne said:

As for your plan, it gets better if you use a drowned. Walk it forwards, drop a scheme marker. Put up the aura from the upgrade (spirit beacon/whispers? I can't remember which), then summon off the drowned enough to kill it. You can a second scheme marker from the aura and a third from Finish The Job, plus a seshin for discarding a card.

I love doing something similar with Jackdaw.  Makes ALiTS nice and easy to achieve.

[Tayne]

Unfortunately, it doesn't work for Convict Labour as the markers have to be over 2" apart. It was awesome for aLitS though, absolutely.

[sinistercats]

On 2/7/2016 at 0:23 PM, jonahmaul said:

Not necessarily, it's whether you begin the Walk action engaged, not begin your activation engaged. So if you flew 10" and ended up landing in a models engagement range you would then have to defend a disengaging strike to move with your second AP. You can't 'combine' your two AP to do a single 20" move, they have to be completed as separate actions. 

Agreed. Said much better than I first tried too.