Kirai tips?

[MEGAHORSE]

Another fun way to get around your opponent summoning Ikyro is to fit yourself near some models/terrain where Ikyro cant pop out. ie surround your model with other figures and terrain so when you attack your opponent's model, ikyro is unable to be summoned b2b due to the size of the 50mm base. 

[lusciousmccabe]

8 minutes ago, Adran said:

Unfortunatly, that little know rule specifies that Actions can't summon models outside of line of sight, and Ikiryo isn't summoned by an action, so can still be summoned out of LOS of Kirai. 

So it turns out it was so little known, I didn't even know it myself! 

 

[Obeisance]

Played with Kirai today. My girlfriend's first game with Pandora. Quite long due to 1) our both being newbies and 2) new masters.

We were playing Reconnoitre on corner deployment. Pool was: Line in the Sand, Breakthrough, Entourage, Cursed Object, Bodyguard.

I opted to take Line in the Sand and Entourage (Kirai). Alice took Breakthrough and Entourage (Pandora). I declared Line and she declared Breakthrough.

Kirai (7 cache, 0 push, shears, Seishin damage bounce), Datsu (call Seishin), Imazu, 2 Gaki, Onryo, Flesh Construct, Lost Love.

...

So Kirai was interesting. First turn she was like, walk, call a Seishin, eat the Seishin for +2 CA, summon The Hanged. Tag Teddy with Adversary. Accomplice Hanged who halves Teddy and never heal again. Was solid. She spent the whole game bouncing around, tossing out spells and dropping Seishin who would just go run into annoying placed and force disengaging strikes/waste resources killing them.

Ikyrio was sweet. Originally I was like, I'm never going to get to summon her. Then things were getting desperate for Alice. Over four turns I summoned her four times. Once she survived a round and once Candy killed her and I immediately resummoned when Candy spent her last activation point casting Self Loathing on an Onryo. Alice hated her so much. lol.

Pandora was interesting. Far less of a horror than previous edition. Still great, though. She ended the game near my deployment zone due to having so many pushes.

Final scores:

Alice - Reconnoitre (1), Breakthrough (3), Entourage (0) = 4

Me - Reconnoitre (3), Line in the Sand (3), Entourage (2) = 8

...

Yeah, I really liked Kirai. 

 

 

 

[jonahmaul]

Don't forget that Ikyro can sacrifice herself too so you can take an attack with her the sacrifice ready to be summoned again immediately if your opponent takes another attack action against your models. The psychological advantage can be great.

[Tayne]

16 hours ago, Obeisance said:

Ikyrio was sweet. Originally I was like, I'm never going to get to summon her. Then things were getting desperate for Alice. Over four turns I summoned her four times. Once she survived a round and once Candy killed her and I immediately resummoned when Candy spent her last activation point casting Self Loathing on an Onryo. Alice hated her so much. lol.

Sorry to say, but the Onryo is neither living nor undead, so you cannot summon Ikyrio from them being damaged by an enemy. Same holds true for Seshin, Night Terrors and Gaki.

 

Otherwise glad to hear you enjoyed Kirai, sounds like fun was had.

[Obeisance]

Oh. Well then. I played the game completely wrong. Crap.

Ikyrio seems far less good now. Maybe that's the point. =p

[Obeisance]

There a list of models that are both Spirits and Undead somewhere?

I wish the Schemes and Stones ep on Kirai would air already now. =p

[jonahmaul]

Kyle has said that the Kirai episode has been recorded so it'll be edited and put up soon!  Ikyro would be too powerful if she could be summoned from Spirits as well but gives you a reason to take some good Undead options and is one of the reasons that people suggest Flesh Constructs as summoning batteries.

[BigHammer]

From her summons, Shikome, Drowned and Hanged are both Spirits and Undead.

For hires, Phillip, Izamu, the Lost Love and Datsue Ba (and maybe Jakuune Ubume?) are both Spirit and Undead.

However, her ability triggers off any living or undead model, it doesn't need to be a spirit, so in theory she could play without spirits at all (not recommended, of course).

[Obeisance]

Problem is, if they're not spirits they won't get Adversary.

But yeah, means I have to change up my list design a bit. 

There's like no reason to run Gaki I guess. May as well just take Crooligans or something.

 

[Tayne]

Oh, when you see the Gaki swarm, then you'll see the reason to run them. Giving other Gaki a (1) melee attack is good, as is Kirai and Datsue Ba being able to summon them by killing models - this is always great for any model.

Beyond that, they are still fairly quick, cheap significant models with Df6. They can threaten better than a Crooligan I find.

[Phototropic]

and the gaki can heal off corpse counters which you won't be using, as well as getting +ve from adversary, really nice if you are using them to hold the enemy in place

[Adran]

You do have to make a decision about going strongly Spirit for Adversary, or strongly Undead/living for Ikriyu, or a bit of both. 

Gaki can hit stupidly hard in groups. They are also easily summoned by kirai and Datsuba, so are worth owning for that. Not always something to hire, but its common to have them show up mid game. 

[nunorod]

You can also use Belles which are always handy, they are sturdy and a good target to soak damage to throw iKyrio. Since they have a long range with Lure they can stick close to kirai and you can trick the opponent by exposing them a bit so they are tempted to shot them. And since they are note spirits they can take a bit of damage from Ca actions also. Nurses can also do it but are more frail. But they are good to heal/paralise the flesh construct, since he is mainly there to be a summon spot. 

Like the guys said, Hanged, Shikome, Datsue-ba, are also good to unleash iKyrio and you can take advantage of adversary. The same with Izamu.

[MEGAHORSE]

On 1/18/2016 at 1:54 AM, Tayne said:

Sorry to say, but the Onryo is neither living nor undead, so you cannot summon Ikyrio from them being damaged by an enemy. Same holds true for Seshin, Night Terrors and Gaki.

 

Otherwise glad to hear you enjoyed Kirai, sounds like fun was had.

This is a mistake I made in my first game, and it comes up alot in this faction. You "assume" everything is undead, or a Spirit, etc. For example, I kept assuming Yin was a spirit, due to her model, 10T cross faction, and how she's so good with Spirit masters. Just assumed! Oops. It really forces the Kirai player to hire a specific set of models, but summon another set. It's on your opponent to catch which models can/cant summon Ikyro once you KNOW which ones can/cannot, and you can play mind games! 

[Tayne]

22 minutes ago, MEGAHORSE said:

This is a mistake I made in my first game, and it comes up alot in this faction. You "assume" everything is undead, or a Spirit, etc. For example, I kept assuming Yin was a spirit, due to her model, 10T cross faction, and how she's so good with Spirit masters. Just assumed! Oops. It really forces the Kirai player to hire a specific set of models, but summon another set. It's on your opponent to catch which models can/cant summon Ikyro once you KNOW which ones can/cannot, and you can play mind games! 

It gets more fun when you take an Onryo or two and charge them off:

"Will hitting this summon Ikiryo?"

"Nope, but it pulses out adversary when struck and a possible slow when killed. And yes, that is a Hanged lurking behind, who will summon Ikiryo. Take your pick of bad choices!"

[MEGAHORSE]

One thing I really messed up, coming from Nicodem, is spamming summons. He spoils you to other summoners, or even masters, due to his Anti-slow bubble. It makes summoning by and large much more powerful than most of his other actions. In addition to handing out AP like candy. 

Kirai and Molly cant do this as efficiently. They want to be shooting to apply adversary/- on duels. Or bouncing around playing support/sniper. My next few games with Kirai I'm gonna give that a shot!

[Obeisance]

If you were going to play in a two list 50ss tournament, what do you really need? 

Schemes and Stones Kirai ep was really good. Unfortunately his list was a little too specialised for a beginner, but the ep was super useful. 

Kirai with Unforgiven and Swirling Spirits was exactly where I was going. 

The idea of hiring what you can't summon is interesting. 

How do you build Ressers to cover everything? Seems weird. 

Kirai seems like she can handle a lot. 

What mix of spirits and malevolence triggers is decent? 

[Obeisance]

Kirai, Unforgiven, Swirling Spirits 

Lost Love 

Datsue Ba, create Seishin 

Imazu, Decaying Aura 

Flesh Construct 

3 Gaki 

50 and 6 cache 

[jonahmaul]

8 hours ago, Obeisance said:

Schemes and Stones Kirai ep was really good. Unfortunately his list was a little too specialised for a beginner, but the ep was super useful. 

The idea of hiring what you can't summon is interesting. 

I don't think it's too specialised for a beginner, it just needs a wide pool of models as a couple of them (Sebastian and P&N) come in different crew boxes and it was designed entirely around getting Kirai to work.  I'm not convinced on the Sebastian/Canine Remains trick myself as it seems Crow intensive but then Joe has won a tournament with said list so I'm inclined to take his word!

 

Hiring what you can't summon is the Resser motto

[MEGAHORSE]

10 hours ago, Obeisance said:

Kirai, Unforgiven, Swirling Spirits 

Lost Love 

Datsue Ba, create Seishin 

Imazu, Decaying Aura 

Flesh Construct 

3 Gaki 

50 and 6 cache 

I would drop a Gaki. You dont need to hire them, depsite how great they can be. They cannot trigger Malevolence Plus, I think making room for Spirit Beacon is incredibly important. I also dont leave home without Phillip and the Nanny with Take Back the Night anymore. It helps relieve the strain off summoning Ikyro repeatedly and summoning Seishin. I friggin love the rules for the model, just wish the sculpt was cooler not a fan 

[jonahmaul]

2 hours ago, MEGAHORSE said:

I would drop a Gaki. You dont need to hire them, depsite how great they can be. They cannot trigger Malevolence Plus, I think making room for Spirit Beacon is incredibly important. I also dont leave home without Phillip and the Nanny with Take Back the Night anymore. It helps relieve the strain off summoning Ikyro repeatedly and summoning Seishin. I friggin love the rules for the model, just wish the sculpt was cooler not a fan 

Hah, I think the opposite!  I love the model for P&N but struggle to find 8SS to put it in my list.  I do really need to start using it more though.

[MEGAHORSE]

28 minutes ago, jonahmaul said:

Hah, I think the opposite!  I love the model for P&N but struggle to find 8SS to put it in my list.  I do really need to start using it more though.

I was the same way man, 8ss+1ss for the upgrade too feels really not worthwhile, but she synergizes so well with Datsue ba, procs Malevolence, and provides an insane amount of card draw. I'm not too afriad to lose her mid to late game either, as usually by then she's made her points up in what she provides your list. I'm a huge fanboy for the model nowdays.

[Mantis Toboggan]

I love Kirai. I play Ressers basically just because of her. 

Unfortunatly I don't get to play her as much as I like because we're new to the game and my opponents just don't know how to deal with her. Between Ikiryo summoning and Call Forth and then using Swirling Spirits to teleport Izamu about and all the healing it feels unfair a lot of the time.

Generally I go about her crew with the mindset of "what can I summon rather than hire?". Datsue-Ba and Izamu are pretty much auto-includes, after that its basically what I feel like. Onryo and Gaki are low priority because they're easy to summon and can't trigger Ikiryo.

Honestly, I almost never use the Seishin for the +2Ca, I find them much more frustrating for the opponent as healers. Especially if you don't immediatly use them can build up a few. Nothing seems more frustrating for opponents than to have wail on Izamu and get him a few dots away from death and them a bunch of wee ghosts run up and undo all their work. And like I said, handy for getting funky angles on Swirling Spirits.

Also, plastic Jaakuna Ubume when?

[Kogan Style]

On 1/25/2016 at 0:39 AM, Obeisance said:

If you were going to play in a two list 50ss tournament, what do you really need? 

How do you build Ressers to cover everything? Seems weird. 

You never play just 2 lists in Malifaux, you adapt your crew to the demands of the Strategy, scheme pool, Terrain, and sometimes the opponents faction.  A warmachine approach to the game won't enable you to get the most out of the faction.

What you can do is understand which pieces are core for that master/your playstyle and then when you get to the table decide what else you need to accomplish the mission.