More to Sensei Yu?

[dalleron]

So I'm starting out with Shen Long and the Sensei, and boy, there's a learning curve.  Definitely not straight forward at all.  But I've come to wonder about Yu.  Is there more to him than ushering people around the board.  Granted he's boss at that, but I feel im not doing enough to get value from him.  Wonder same thing about Shen Long, but it's been precious few games with them so far.

[Bumpasses]

Admittedly, I have only used him a handful of times and that was mostly for the pushes and fast via (WRM).

But geezus, using him with Misaki is pretty....guilt inducing shall we say.

 

+1 to hit on shooters if within 3 seems clutch.

Its enough with his pushes, getting key models into position, whether to erase a baddy or for schemes or strats, it seems plenty to me.

Others are also perpleksed as well by no charge and maybe a single MI hit unless pushed by someone else, but I think hes balanced as is and he does quite a bit in my games.

 

I am liking him more and more as I use him and seeing how he could become a crutch of sorts and end up in most lists.

 

keep working him, use his focus mechanic, try all the upgrades on him, hes pretty stellar.

 

 

-B

 

 

 

[Inquisitor Wall]

The free interact action is absolutely awesome.  He is an excellent late game scheme runner/denier, and is amazing at schemes like distract, and cursed object.  I am yet to find a master that he does not work well with.  If he had a charge, he would be arguably the best model in the game.

[dalleron]

I'll for sure keep trying him.  It's something new every game I learn with the crew. 

[BigHammer]

Disciple is, in my opinion, his secret weapon. Each of the 10T masters have access to some interesting (0) actions, even the two (Misaki and Mei Feng) that don't have one printed on their card have access to a couple of unique (0) actions from their own upgrades, and they all have access to On Wings Of Wind, meaning that Yu can get access to yet another push effect.

With Yan Lo it becomes a powerful heal, and potentially even a way to attach Ascendant upgrades.

With Jacob Lynch it becomes a powerful card cycle effect (albeit with the slight limitation that you don't discard the cards you don't want, they just shuffle back into the deck instead).

With Shenlong it's usually free conditions for Yu to use (always, always focus for one of them!).

With Brewmaster it's a second, stacking bubble of Wp duels at the very least (though be careful to have them overlapping closely)

With McCabe it's another Take This!, meaning you do a ridiculous amount of extra movement with the Badge of Speed (push Yu 4" and give him Nimble for another 7" move, then Yu pushes someone else 4" and makes them Nimble too, just with the (0) actions).

With Misaki, Yu can use Stalk for her, so she can use her (0) to get a Bisento attack instead.

With Mei Feng, Yu can get access to Precise, which is probably the least useful one for him, but Mei Feng rather likes to take OWOW for the (0) push, so he ends up being more pushy in that case.

[D_acolyte]

I have seen him a few times and I always come away underwhelmed. He is often used as an expensive support model and tended to do very little vs me. The 10 thunders are not short on support models or models that can perform multiple roles but out of all of them I feel Sensei Yu gets more hype then he should, partly do to mighty gust. I do see potential with him especially as a disruptor or in an offensive role but I do not think it is anything great.

[Doomikov]

Quick question about Yu and Misaki's stalk since it's been brought up here.  Since the action states "until this model takes this action again" it's possible for both Yu and Misaki to put the stalked condition on two separate models right?  This means that Misaki get bonuses against two models instead of just the one.

[Rurouni Benshin]

12 minutes ago, Doomikov said:

Quick question about Yu and Misaki's stalk since it's been brought up here.  Since the action states "until this model takes this action again" it's possible for both Yu and Misaki to put the stalked condition on two separate models right?  This means that Misaki get bonuses against two models instead of just the one.

That's correct.  It's more the matter of keeping track of who is "stalking" who at that point.  Keep in mind though, that only 1 of the models gets to take their "stalked" walk action, after the target model makes a move or charge action.

[BigHammer]

4 hours ago, Rurouni Benshin said:

That's correct.  It's more the matter of keeping track of who is "stalking" who at that point.  Keep in mind though, that only 1 of the models gets to take their "stalked" walk action, after the target model makes a move or charge action.

Also worth noting that Yu can never take the walk action from Stalk, as he isn't a model with the Stalk action, he just has a means with which to take it. So if you do take it, it has to be Misaki anyway.

[Doomikov]

10 hours ago, Rurouni Benshin said:

That's correct.  It's more the matter of keeping track of who is "stalking" who at that point.  Keep in mind though, that only 1 of the models gets to take their "stalked" walk action, after the target model makes a move or charge action.

Well I figured since Yu doesn't actually have the stalk action that Misaki could take walk actions after either of the stalked models takes a walk or charge action. 

[Adran]

Yes, it doesn't matter who is stalking who. When a model with the stalked condition walks a model with the Stalk action gets to walk.

But BigHammer raises a great point below how it does matter. 

[BigHammer]

It matters in that, if Misaki stalks model A and Yu stalks model B, then Misaki stalks model C, models B and C will now be the ones with the stalk condition, and model A will lose it, whereas if Yu were the one that stalked C (after having stalked B), A and C would have it.

[Rurouni Benshin]

3 hours ago, BigHammer said:

It matters in that, if Misaki stalks model A and Yu stalks model B, then Misaki stalks model C, models B and C will now be the ones with the stalk condition, and model A will lose it, whereas if Yu were the one that stalked C (after having stalked B), A and C would have it.

This is what I meant by keeping track of "who's stalking who".

[Ludvig]

Make little stalk markers with shadows on them and the letters Y and M to place by the enemy models. Markers are great since there's less chance to forget stuff than only writing on the card. 

[Tokapondora]

Sensei Yu is basically a model that can guarantee any marker based scheme goes off. Top that off with the constant giving out of fast/slow, the constant pushes, the 7Wk and the fact that he can copy his leader's 0 action... He's almost unparalleled in scheme play. He just doesn't do much in terms of killing or holding key points; he does it through the units around him. I usually have to look for a reason not to take him, frankly. 

[Rurouni Benshin]

Sensei Yu is the 8th Ten Thunders Master.

[tomjoad]

44 minutes ago, Rurouni Benshin said:

Sensei Yu is the 8th Ten Thunders Master.

This is really my one complaint about him: He's so good, and so much like a Master than I frequently have to remind myself he only has 2ap and then I'm sad.

[santaclaws01]

6 hours ago, tomjoad said:

This is really my one complaint about him: He's so good, and so much like a Master than I frequently have to remind myself he only has 2ap and then I'm sad.

Which is where the shadow emissary comes into play.

[Tawg]

On 1/6/2016 at 0:01 PM, D_acolyte said:

I have seen him a few times and I always come away underwhelmed. He is often used as an expensive support model and tended to do very little vs me. The 10 thunders are not short on support models or models that can perform multiple roles but out of all of them I feel Sensei Yu gets more hype then he should, partly do to mighty gust. I do see potential with him especially as a disruptor or in an offensive role but I do not think it is anything great.

I am honestly shocked.

Your statement might be the first non-affirmative I have ever heard of Sensei Yu not being the best thing since bread sliced by Katanaka Katanas.

Shenlong may have the power of the Dragon, but only because the Dragon is scared that Sensei Yu would overwhelm him if he had granted Sensei Yu his power.

 

Granted I am firmly in the camp of trying my best to NOT take Sensei Yu, because I find the idea of including him almost always to be rather stale and would quickly make the game unfun for me.  But honestly?  Lists that Sensei Yu does NOT enhance by being taken are few and far between.  It's not hype, he's insane.

If you have not seen him be amazing, then odds are someone is doing it wrong.  God knows every time I play the Viks I get slaughtered, rather than invoking their avatar.  But I hear tell they are pretty bomb (Pun intended).  Sensei Yu is a golden child.

 

As for "making the most" of Sensei Yu, I agree with Dumpasses's assessment.  Everything Dumpasses said is 100%, using pushes to complete goals, deny or set up kills, handing out focus or buffs to focused models?  All of it is simply amazing.  The only thing I could think is if you are using him, but not completing goals you feel are important somehow?  Like if you desire a model that is way more in the thick of it, doing the smashing, Sensei Yu might be a bad fit, or if you're using the pushes but the results end up not as favorable as you would have liked, perhaps it's simply play errors?  All I know is I have never been disappointed by Sensei Yu (Hell, I've never been disappointed with anything 10T really).

Perhaps if you elaborated on what you feel is lacking?  Because personally, pushes are one of my favorite mechanics in Malifaux, and I would kill for them in any crew I take.  It always makes me feel naked when I am lacking in Push // Placement effects (Yan Lo is another favorite, or Lilith types).  Perhaps Pushes simply don't suit your fancy as well?

[InvokeChaos]

I am very much looking forward to breaking him out of that Wandering River mold.  Combined with Shadow Emissary, he IS a Master.

Combos I'm looking to give a strong try:

Fermented River Style in a Brewmaster list.  Combined with Moon Shine-obis, that's potentially 4 models that laugh at negative flips.  It leaves his focus from airburst to drop free schemes. And the action on Fermented River seems like good synergy.

Low River Style in a Yan Lo list. I love running Chiaki with Lo Pan as with his ancestor resurrect upgrade and heal, I'm packing a lot of recursion and resilience. Now add in Yu with a free 0 action to heal and Low River Style and I can either remove Chiaki or just enjoy the ridiculous amounts of support heals my heavy beaters will be receiving.  Again Yu still has his airburst with focus for free schemes. Plus I use Izamu in this list, and Izamu LOVES Yu.

Burning River with Mei Fang.  Adding in a bit of support beating.  With his ridiculous walk of 7 and ignoring defensive triggers, he can just walk out to scheme, help push and drop some burning love on any who gets close. I love running two heavy hitters, and Yu + Kang is all kinds of fun. 

Jakob Lynch with Low River.  Much the same benefit of Yan Lo: heals are good for this crew it seems.  Healing huggy and illuminated just seems wrong... adding in some pushes and scheme support sounds just evil.    

[D_acolyte]

I love pushes, my issue was that he was primarily used to transfer focus around or to push scheme markers around. I was so unimpressed with him that I left him alive till the end of turn 5 and killed everyone else hoping to see him used in a way that would strike me as better; when that the most memorable thing about an expensive model then the model is not a "golden" model. What makes it worse is I did this the next 2 time I saw him and through at least one of them one was complaining about needing more power to stop me. I even told one person that they needed more stopping power or armor to blunt my assault, to which they pointed out Sensei Yu can do it which just cause me to shake my head. After looking at him, I would use him more to push enemies and give them slow with the Wandering River Style. His damage is nothing to right home about either or even to be impressed at. So he is probably useful , I just use him differently from what I have seen. Is he the golden boy, I think that is a much harder sell than people think but he is a useful Jack of All Trade model but that is all he is.

[InvokeChaos]

One thing to remember, is that while his damage spread is only 1/3/5 (I believe, might be worse; don't have his card in front of me), he passes out conditions on hit.  So burning can be stacked, making him 2/4/6, or poison if you need that synergy.  He can also pass over slow.  He ignores defensive triggers, which is huge. His copy 0 ability is off the chain... is he the golden god of 10T? No, but he is a force to be reckoned with when played properly.

I think the problem is that typically his role is relegated to that of push-bot.  And in that case, yes... he can be underwhelming.  Two pushes with one fast hand out is good. On the right model (Misaki, Ototo, Swordsman, Izamu)... it's downright amazing. But that's 11pts for a push bot. Yu's strength is his flexibility.

Now that being said, I've run him exclusively push-bot so far. I deliver swordsman regularly with Yu, and it's brutal. But I'm new to Malifaux (not miniature games), and I really love the shenanigans of passing out fast, pushes and the like with him and the emissary. Especially as I main Misaki. But there's a ridiculous amount of potential to be had from him.  

You just have to remember his rules. And that there are three other limited upgrades he can take.

[Tokapondora]

I'd say it seems the problem with that guy is the rest of the crew, not Yu. He's amazing, but he is still a support piece. If there's nothing decent to support you're naturally going down. Yu is essentially made to disrupt the opponent's schemes and set yours in place at key moments. Any moment's he's not doing that he's gonna be spending his turns pushing everything where it does or doesn't want to go, handing out fast and slow respectively. He's not gonna floor crews. That's not what he's made for. He's made for scoring VP.

[D_acolyte]

1 minute ago, Tokapondora said:

I'd say it seems the problem with that guy is the rest of the crew, not Yu. He's amazing, but he is still a support piece. If there's nothing decent to support you're naturally going down. Yu is essentially made to disrupt the opponent's schemes and set yours in place at key moments. Any moment's he's not doing that he's gonna be spending his turns pushing everything where it does or doesn't want to go, handing out fast and slow respectively. He's not gonna floor crews. That's not what he's made for. He's made for scoring VP.

This is probably true, but the 10 Thunders have a good number of support models.

[newsun]

I have recently been running Yu with J.Lynch and running On Wings of Wind/Wandering River combo. Then support that with Huggy+Ama for two fast beaters who don't care much about terrain and OMG is this crazy good. With a solid hand you can alpha strike a model dead so fast with one of the beaters from so far away with 4 pushes available. Or you can get the whole crew up faster and still have Yu move up with JLs help. Or you can grab enemy schemes and push them out of position. Or use cover, LoS blockers, but still get charges off because of pushes into LoS.  Or push enemies into a better spot for your models to pounce. Or simply use the pushes to disengage someone else's beater and run away. Just so many uses.

The only times Yu has not been helpful are when I would love to charge someone right in front of Yu, but I gotta walk up and take a single swing instead.