Show me your all corner Smoke & Shadows/Last Blossom list

[MagicGis]

Hello everyone,

I am still new to Malifaux. I know you should build your crew after the strategy etc, but I would like to build something somewhat flexible and thematic for the masters I own.

To learn the mechanics of masters and minis one by one.

So for Misaki which I wanna get a bit deeper into I would like to have a somewhat last blossom centric list. For that I think playing around Smoke&Shadows which to me coming from WM&H seems completely insane to be honest, seems natural since it pairs well with the insane mobility Misaki herself has.

So I would like to collect lists for Outcasts and Ten Thunders, that feature at least 4 Blossoms (don´t all have to be minions and Misaki counts) and Smoke and Shadows. I would like to limit myself to models that exist. Since I feel proxys will make the learning just harder for me and that way the model pool is at least a bit limited. However whatever excists as a model (or is previewed to come out already till feb) is fine for me.

I will also post my first ideas here, and would ask everyone to share their take on such a kind of list.

So first:

Ten Thunders Misaki:

 

Misaki +Recalled Training + Misdirection+ Stalking Bisento

Hans + Hidden Agenda

Yamaziko + Smoke & Shadows + Smoke Grenades

Oiran

Oiran

Oiran

Shadow Effigy

Torakage

4ss pool

 

 

So my thoughts behind the choices:

Misaki the lady will have to do the heavy lifting and maybe also provide a very fast target to change the flanks via teleports I hope Misdirection and Recalled Training make her reasonably survivable .

Hans: I wanted a ranged Enforcer in the 8-10 SS range to carry hidden agenda. There seems to be a lack of that in Ten thunders, since his goal also should be to deal damage around once a turn. Hans seemed costly but kind of perfect for it. He looks  to me like he wants to sit in a sniper nest with a lot of LoS all game hand out his focused shot to some degree anyway.

Yamaziko: Cheaper than ototo and more mobile with nimble, she also provides some blasts, a great tactical that can discourage charges, potential discard, and can carry smoke and shadows. I played her only a few times but so far I really like here, I hope Smoke Grenades will help with her somewhat weak def.

Oiran: With the extra skills from S&S as well as potentially fast and focused for free every turn, this girls seem rather flexible and cheap to me, their def is kinda ok, and the whole crew seems really good against something I see a lot here...terrifying... especially when supported with WP bubbles. Sure you could also take the upgrade on Misaki, but this crew looks to me like they will be fine without it.

Effigy: A little extra def for Misaki, a kind of tanky cheap minion, and a lot of other minions to use his skill with, also he fits well optically ^^... I know bad reason.

Torakage: I had 6 points left and to be honest no better idea so I thought why not add even more mobility and S&S use... the model with his even stats always strikes me as kind of an alrounder.

 

So that is my noob take on this idea  Lets let me see your ideas and lists.

[Bumpasses]

Well old boy, I'm not sure if that is an auto correct, but 3 Oiran?

1 seems like too many, I have yet to find a spot for an Oiran.

If I could put it into a joke fer ye;

 

"A young blonde woman is distraught because she fears her husband is having an affair, so she goes to a gun shop and buys a handgun. The next day she comes home to find her husband in bed with a beautiful redhead. She grabs the gun and holds it to her own head. The husband jumps out of bed, begging and pleading with her not to shoot herself. Hysterically the blonde responds to the husband, ”Shut up…you’re next!”

 

shooti'n yerself in the foot I says.

 

 

-Bump

 

 

Edited December 6, 2015 by Bumpasses

[Pyrflamme]

To give you a more extensive answer, Oiran look appealing (...literally! Oh ho hooooooooooooo!) at first since they have decent defensive stats, the Wp buff, and the Lure ability. In reality, they sometime struggle since their Lure doesn't have the innate suit built in, meaning you have to sandbag high Crows to have a chance of it going off, rather than being able to just flip a high card like with the other models that have Lure. Their attacks are slightly on the weak side. No Witnesses is kind of funny in that if an Oiran is pinning something by itself, it has to rely on non- Ca actions or trying to disengage to be able to attack anything, but the base attack is unreliable. I believe someone did the math on the Flutter trigger and it turned out to be worse than just using the other attack twice, due to Poison.

The upgrade buffing Oiran found in book 2 is kinda nice, especially since the only real cost is an upgrade slot, but right now I would suggest tinkering with your crew to allow the full complement of Tokarage. They're very nice for combat, and two can engage the same model and still retain their flying solo buff with proper positioning. It's also hellish trying to shoot them, particularly if they're also in cover while benefiting from their buff. Finally, they actually make excellent scheme runners in that they can just walk away from stuff trying to engage them. Run perhaps 1-2 Oiran, taking the book2 0SS upgrade that can give them Fast and Focused+1 when the carrying model kills something.

I know you prefer to build to both Outcast/TT, meaning LB models and mercs, but I'd suggest looking at the Guild Pathfinder box for TT. Hiring traps and even Pathfinders means your Tokarage has Shadowstep targets up the board from Smoke and Shadows, which can save an effective 1-2 AP if you position the traps such that the Tokarage won't get killed easily t2 (and they can benefit from the shooting bonus, having arrived near a Trap). Also of interest might be the Crossroads 7 box. Lust (TT) provides more consistent Lure-like effects and can even hand out effective free movement to a member of your crew t1 by pushing it towards another member. Also on the TT side, consider Shenlong's box at some point. The master is very effective and tricky, and it comes with Sensei Yu, who most TT players have hailed as one of the most awesome models in TT. If Misaki takes the Stalk limited upgrade, he and Misaki just start moving around the board at warp speed (Use Sensei Yu's (0) to copy Misaki's Stalk (0), Stalking a model that hasn't activated yet. Airburst Misaki 5 inches. Walk, maybe placing a scheme marker if you need. Get to walk again if the Stalked model moves. Then Misaki gets her movement and Stalk movement plus is 5 inches farther up the board).

 

 

[Rurouni Benshin]

In the games I've played using the Last Blossom theme, here is how the list generally looks, when catered to the right schemes and strategies.

Misaki: (Cache: Potential 7)
- Stalking Bisento
- Recalled Training
- (Open Slot, depending on which faction I'm facing)
Shang
Yamaziko
- Smoke and Shadows
Sensei Yu
- Wandering River Style
Shadow Emissary
- Conflux of Thunder
Oiran
Oiran

The open slot on Misaki is dependent on whether or not I'm playing against Neverborn or Ressers, since there are a good number of Terrifying models from those factions.  If I'm facing them, then I take "Untouchable" for the ability to pass Horror Duels without needing to cheat cards.  If I'm not facing either of those factions, then "Hidden Agenda" goes on Misaki.  In the past, I've had moderate success with Hidden Agenda on her, since she's usually always in the thick of battle, and the Oiran generally have an easy time keeping LOS of her.  Two Oiran are more than enough for the list, I find.  They and Yamaziko are the primary scheme and strategy runners, while Misaki and the Shadow Emissary keep the opposition preoccupied.  Sensei Yu is there for the extra pushing and faster movement that's needed for the crew.  I had previously liked running a low cache with Misaki, but have since started playing with a larger one, and have just adjusted my soulstone usage a bit more liberally.  Otherwise, depending on what the scheme pool is, a Shadow Effigy could work well with this list, although I find that the 2 Oiran usually suffice.  A Monk of Low River for condition removal would work just as well.

If you want a long range damage dealer for Hidden Agenda though, Fuhatsu is a great candidate for that.  He's Ht 3 and has a good chance of hitting most things, so good chance you'll be getting your Focus & Fast from him.

[mattbird]

Not sure why one would take Oiran over TT Bros...?

[Pyrflamme]

Some people have their own reason, but for me, it's because I came to Malifaux around 2e start, and I don't have TT brothers due to a combination of generally wanting to wait for the plastics because I like their sculpt quality better, and the metals being rare enough that I'd prefer not to deal with the hassle of finding them or paying a markup on them. I know they're pretty good, but in the meanwhile I make do.

Oiran can also Smoke Bomb, which isn't bad.

[Rurouni Benshin]

Not sure why one would take Oiran over TT Bros...?

It's the "Last Blossom" characteristic that they have that makes them work with the list.  Nothing against TT Brothers, but they're not Last Blossom (anymore, from what I understand).

[mattbird]

so in that case Torakage > Oiran, no? 

[96p]

Not sure why one would take Oiran over TT Bros...?

Because they are fast + Focus every single turn if played right, can smoke-bomb , can't be charged and have Lure (yes Lure is still powerful with only one Symbol, you'll just use it more on your own models)

 

They were situational until their 0SS Upgrade was released, now they are plain awesome (though hard to use right)

Edited December 7, 2015 by 96p

[Rurouni Benshin]

so in that case Torakage > Oiran, no? 

Torakage cost 1 ss more though, so it depends on how the rest of the list works.  If they were the same cost, I'd take Torakage all the time though. 

[RarerMonsters]

Personally I will always take an Oiran in a Ten Thunders list. Their Appealing aura is extremely effective (people seriously neglect WP defense on their models) and their Lure, although it requires a Crow, is an extremely important tool to have since its high cast makes it effective in a pinch (It can often mean costing an opponent a VP or putting a target in Misaki's range.)

Throw in Hidden Agenda if you have the spare slot but it isn't huge, since the Fast and Focus doesn't really make their offense better since they just plain don't have useful attacks.

 

That said, the same thing also makes them less than useful in groups: You don't have enough Crows to throw at multiple lures, and the Appealing Aura doesn't stack.

Edited December 7, 2015 by RarerMonsters

[Eclipse]

I find that it is preferable to carry the "Smoke and Shadows" upgrade on Yamaziko in most cases. I find that she combines best with Torakage (as Granny is cheap) and probably would go even better with Jorogumo (when they come out :P).
If I am to take Oiran, I always take the (0) Hidden Agenda upgrade and put it on a ranged attacker - Hans is a good choice for this, I usually stick with Fuhatsu. Oiran do get better with Hidden Agenda and Smoke and Shadows. When I take them, I have the S&S on Ototo. He is not as good a carrier as Yamaziko, because he wants to go in, get hurt, then smash face. However, he rounds up the Oiran with his tank-like abilities (be careful though, he can die as easily as almost anything else in the game). To be honest, he not the best with Misaki - she often goes in deep and desires Sensei Yu's pushes - which Ototo does as well. For this reason I thought of more defensive, scheme-oriented Misaki build:

[Misaki] - 2 SS pool
+ Disguised (2)
+ On WIngs of Wind (2)
+ Untouchable/Recalled Training (1)
[Ototo] - (10)
+ Recalled Training (1)
+ Smoke and Shadows (1)
Sensei Yu (9)
+ Wandering River Style (2)
+ Recalled Training (1)
[Fuhatsu] - (10)
+ Recalled Training (1)
+ Hidden Agenda (0)
[Oiran] x 2 - (10)

Misaki runs schemes together with the Oiran (Untouchable vs. most Neverborn, Ressers, Jack Daw; RT vs. all else). Sensei Yu pushes her and Ototo (control, movement, AP) and can (0) her upgrade as well. Ototo has Fast + pushes and can get into position to cover a lot of ground with his engagement range (this is his role here, protecting your holdings in place of the 10T Bros). The occasional Flurry is hardly something to scoff at either. Fuhatsu gives you suppressive fire and has more of a mind control/deterrent effect: He almost never deals more then 2 Wd (ehough to trigger HA), but... what if he did the severe with the blast? The Oiran cover more ground with the vanishing trigger and try to end schemes early. This way the enemy forces have to either A.) split to extinguish your markers and 'runners, or B.) give up (and let you score your points) to try and compete in other areas. A.) If they split, use Misaki to harass them, kill some smaller models, use Downburst to get others out of position maybe. If you have the chance, Assassinate stuff! The 2 SS is only troublesome for Ototo, who usually needs more SS, while Misaki herself is happy to trigger Risky Ventures, and Yu and Fu rarely (if ever) need stones. B.) If they stay together, shoot Ototo straight in the middle of the enemy forces, try to keep him alive as long possible - he stays there until he dies! Use Misaki for hit-and-run attacks again, thinning their support pieces, slicing at their Master if possible. Support them with Yu, if needed - make him Wind Gust an enemy that gives you trouble. If you have good crows you don't need (as you might not try to Assassinate all the time with this version of Misaki), Lure your models or even better, the enemy ones, out of position to mess with their synergies and placement. Anything to sow discord and confusion in their ranks, while giving two layers of pressure: Psychological (can I kill his 10T fast enough to score!?) and tactical (can I put my team where I need them to beat his 10T and keep them there/push them out?). Be as soft and flexible as water, as unyielding as stone, as untouchable as wind, as intangible as shadow. Strike like Thunder and disappear just the same
This might not be answer you were looking for: Much depends on what models you have (and plan to have), what you playstyle is like, etc. Not to mention that while most plans are sound on paper, they usually end up run in the ground Word to the wise with the above list if you are facing summoners (or minion-horde masters): They will out-activate you and give you much, much trouble.

[Rurouni Benshin]

6 models seems a little scarce for a 50 ss list, but that's just my opinion.  You could probably do without Ototo in this particular case, since you're bringing so much offense between Misaki and Fuhatsu already.  For what the crew seems to "want" to do, replacing Ototo with Yamaziko and Smoke and Shadows would serve the same purpose.  That way you've got 3 ss left over for Shang. 

As much as I like Recalled Training, it's been wasted on Sensei Yu, in my experience playing with it on him.  The only time Sensei Yu ends up with Recalled Training is when he picks it up via Promising Disciple after Shenlong has used it.  Otherwise, I find that I'm using him to push models more than going after enemy models to make the best use of it.  Again, that's just in my experiences with him and Recalled Training.  If you've experienced positive results with it, please do share them though.  Although I've yet to play Misaki with "Disguised" and Sensei Yu together, I find that they're "bread and butter" tactic is with "Stalking Bisento".  I used to fall into this trap, of trying to have my crew do a little bit of everything, instead of trying to specialize them and cater to their strengths strictly.  Misaki is good with "Disguised", but is far better with "Stalking Bisento", especially if Sensei Yu is with her.  She's a glass cannon, for sure, but she'll go down fighting, and hopefully do enough damage before she's taken out.  Past couple of games with Misaki, I've actually managed to keep her around to the end, and that came with practice in tactics.  At this point, I think I've gotten to the point where I'm comfortable with her playing style.

[MagicGis]

Thank you for all the feedback and everyone who posted a list. 

 

I personally believe that  this kind of thread could be very useful for new players getting into the game. It is sometimes hard to find lists on the forums and get good ideas. Rightfully often is said that the list building depends on the strategys etc, 
However I believe with all the models out there and the amount of interacting rules on the cards thats a lot to ask from newer players. 

Their themes often show a basic playstyle of the master, and can form a solid base for many schemes to adapt their lists, from what I have seen so far. So I hope this can help some other new players too, by getting some lists collected for them. I also think keeping models that need metals that are out of sale or need to be proxied is good for newer players. Tons of rules to learn only on minatures that you can actually directly link to the cards, proxys just make the start harder.

I do not have much experience yet, but personally I believe hidden agenda makes Oiran pretty potent. I also think it is a bit harsh to say fast and focused does nothing for them. 1 1/2 the AP you normally have seems good for everything, moving, doing schemes or even that little bit more damage. 3 bad attack actions still seem better than 2, or one lure and a charge 8 to tie something up. Also Smoke and Shadows always givees them something to do with the AP.

Fuhatsu and Sensei Yu all seem like really nice options , and I like how different the lists look you build around them. I also like to see a list with disguise here, and how different it looks to give newer players good ideas. I chose Hans, because I hoped that he can proc Hidden Agenda from Turn 1 onward to give T1 full mobility and the chance to pop smoke all over the place to the Oiran.

However I see the point made for Torokage they really seem much more flexible and independent which is really important. So please keep the lists coming (maybe even some Outcast ones with Last blossom import even if this is the TT forum), and the discussion going on themed lists.

I will collect the lists in the first post later :=) If this continues to go this well maybe doing it for the other 2 masters I own makes sense too.

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2015 by MagicGis

[Eclipse]

6 models seems a little scarce for a 50 ss list, but that's just my opinion.  You could probably do without Ototo in this particular case, since you're bringing so much offense between Misaki and Fuhatsu already.  For what the crew seems to "want" to do, replacing Ototo with Yamaziko and Smoke and Shadows would serve the same purpose.  That way you've got 3 ss left over for Shang. 

As much as I like Recalled Training, it's been wasted on Sensei Yu, in my experience playing with it on him.  The only time Sensei Yu ends up with Recalled Training is when he picks it up via Promising Disciple after Shenlong has used it.  Otherwise, I find that I'm using him to push models more than going after enemy models to make the best use of it.  Again, that's just in my experiences with him and Recalled Training.  If you've experienced positive results with it, please do share them though.  Although I've yet to play Misaki with "Disguised" and Sensei Yu together, I find that they're "bread and butter" tactic is with "Stalking Bisento".  I used to fall into this trap, of trying to have my crew do a little bit of everything, instead of trying to specialize them and cater to their strengths strictly.  Misaki is good with "Disguised", but is far better with "Stalking Bisento", especially if Sensei Yu is with her.  She's a glass cannon, for sure, but she'll go down fighting, and hopefully do enough damage before she's taken out.  Past couple of games with Misaki, I've actually managed to keep her around to the end, and that came with practice in tactics.  At this point, I think I've gotten to the point where I'm comfortable with her playing style.

Your evaluation is absolutely correct and I couldn't agree more. Six activations is indeed scarce - but I am content with this much so long as I know the opponent is not bringing/summoning terribly many models (it's not a big meta). I find Old Yama generally better, it's just that I want Misaki and Ototo in the same crew to actually work, so I have decided on fitting my ideas in the same box, so to speak  I intend to test the theory in practice soon (meaning I will play the crew like this and see how well it works) and then share the results here (if the OP does not mind). I have had success with six model Misaki (only lost her) against Perdita (wiped out) before - and even then I could have probably saved her if only I had played better and positioned her so that I would be able to use Misdirection on the nearby Dawn Serpent (2 mm too far :P)
Oh, and the Recalled Training on Yu is rather the result of me always using my SS to the brim (I usually run with cache only). It could be Smoke Grenades, or SoSD for that matter. A peculiarity of mine. Anyway, thanks for the feedback. From what you say (the user name and avatar don't give you away at all :P) it seems like you really enjoy Shenlong and put a lot of thought and play into becoming better with him. I look forward to learning more useful stuff from you in the future

[Skull on a chair]

I really enjoy these "what if..." and themed posts as I just started and enjoy thematic over WAAC - I'm in it for the cool models. That being said, I just started and have The Thunder set, Yamaziko, Ama No Zaku, Shadow Effigy, and Katanaka Snipers, with Oiran in my sights. Using Smoke & Shadow is so crazy-wonderful. With Misaki movements, I can run her up one side with a sniper covering, send Yamaziko or Ama No Zaku up the center (and the plan is to do this with an Oiran), and the rest on the opposite side. Snipers let you weaken a side and then S&S as needed to the other side makes for some wicked fun "castling".