Line of Sight Ht 3 vs Ht 1

[Design Dragon]

So about line of sight.

Let's say there's a height two wall in between a height one model and a height 3 model. Is it true that the height 3 model ignores the height 2 wall and can see my height 1 model which is positioned behind it?

Edited November 29, 2015 by The MechE

[solkan]

Just to be thorough about this, it's not just the Ht3 model ignoring the blocking terrain in this situation, because the Ht1 model can see the Ht3 model, too.

From Elevation, Core Rulebook, page 41:

The Ht of the acting model, target, and intervening objects can effect whether or not the acting model has LoS. If the blocking object (terrain or model) between the Attacker and target has Ht lower than the Attacker or target's Ht, then the blocking object is ignored for LoS quality (but not cover).

Is the blocking terrain's Ht lower than the attacker's Ht?  It doesn't block line of sight, but still counts for cover.

Is the blocking terrain's Ht lower than the target's Ht?  It doesn't block line of sight, but still counts for cover.

If you were using physical geometry to figure out whether the taller model could see the shorter model behind the intervening wall, you'd end up having to use trigonometry to figure out the answer to "Given the attacker is X distance from the wall, and how far the target model is from the intervening blocking terrain (distance Y), and heights A, W, and T, compute whether line of sight exists.  Remember to account for the fact that Ht values may represent a value rounded up to a whole inch of height."

Because the game is pretty much designed so that you can play it looking at the board from the top-down perspective, that's what you'd be looking at.  "Just lean over and look for yourself" has all sorts of problems when the table starts getting crowded in terrain.  Or when you're playing on Vassal and there's no physical table. 

[Bengt]

Yes. Only the taller model matters. Also remember that it goes both ways, if one model is tall enough to ignore an object, both have LoS.

[Myyrä]

The heights are abstractions and Ht 2 isn't necessarily twice as tall as Ht 1. It's difficult to say who would see what in reality.

[Design Dragon]

Okay, just seems so weird because in reality you wouldn't be able to see the height 1 model but I guess that's why it's a game.

[MrDeathTrout]

Okay, just seems so weird because in reality you wouldn't be able to see the height 1 model but I guess that's why it's a game.

Yes.  I don't remember who said it, but when playing any game we need to remember "It is a game, not a simulation of reality". That really put all the odd things into perspective for me.

[drafterman]

Okay, just seems so weird because in reality you wouldn't be able to see the height 1 model but I guess that's why it's a game.

Perhaps, in that instance. But if the HT2 wall was up against the HT3 model, then he would be able to see it, but nothing has changed from a game perspective (i.e. the HT2 wall is still between a HT1 and HT3 model) and I don't think we want to the game to require trigonometry to play.

Alternatively, you could make a vantage-point-like rule, that the HT2 wall does block a HT1 model unless it is within a HT's worth of distance from the taller model (similar to how vantage point ledges are ignored) but we're just getting too complicated.

Also, it's not necessarily even unrealistic. "HT1" models can vary greatly in size. A Steam Arachnid, Ice Gamin, and Essence of Power are all HT1, but have significantly different, real "heights." And, if we're imagining this as a battle, things are constantly in motion, not just the static positions they are on the bases. Models are moving around, bobbing and weaving, trying to see each other to attack. So even though this static scene has the HT1 model obscured by the HT3 model, in "reality" the HT3 model would be trying to look over the wall, or even blind firing (he has penalties to his accuracy after all) and the HT1 model is perhaps poking its "head" (or equivalent) over/around the obstacle to fire back, etc.

Edited December 2, 2015 by drafterman