Model removal timing and impact on triggers

[wurtz]

Hi all,

I'm relatively new to Malifaux (which is awesome by the way) and these forums, so forgive me if there has already been a ruling, I might have missed it in my quick search. 

After some discussions on other forums we concluded that the general trend of the various rulings about it has been that after a model is killed, if there are any relevant effects that are supposed to happen to that model, you resolve those before removing said model. Two different plays on this interaction:

Example 1:

Teddy attacks a Fire Gamin -> Fire Gamin is killed and drops a Scrap -> Fire Gamin explodes -> Teddy's Peekaboo Trigger pushes Fire Gamin, and pushes Teddy into base contact -> Fire Gamin is removed.

Example 2:

If a Ronin kills a model and applied a push effect to itself, and there was nothing keeping the killed model in play, you could remove it and push through the space where it used to be?

The FAQ mentions - "After succeeding triggers occur after Step 5 of the Action sequence, so after applying the results of the action."

So the result is 'dead model, removed from table' so that occurs in Step 5 and then the push into base contact kicks in - but the base no longer exists so the Ronin example is the only viable option or would the dead model actually block the Ronin's push in that direction?

Any assistance would be appreciated!

 

[solkan]

When dealing with triggers, there's special timing rules for four timing instructions.  Peekaboo uses one of them, after damaging.

•After damaging: These effects happen after Step 5 and only if the target suffers 1 or more damage from the Action. These effects are resolved before the damaged model is removed if it was killed by the damage.

Since Peekaboo has an "after damaging" trigger, when you kill the model, you leave in place long enough to resolve the trigger effect, and then you remove it.

 

[Artiee]

Timing for triggers is found on big book page 32. For abilities of 46.  Triggers are resolved 1st

The triggers happen before the model  is removed   

 

for the teddy question.

Teddy damages fire gamin (kills) -> Teddys peekaboo trigger pushes the gamin and moves into base contact -> gamin explodes -> gamin drops marker -> gamin is removed from the table. 

 

Example 2. 

Ronin kills a model. Her trigger happens before the model is removed.  So she can't move thou the model.  

[cegorach]

Where does the text in red come from? Is that from a new version of the FAQ (or am I just missing it in the old one)?

edit:

I don't have the rulebook on me but I found the following reference

 

Declare Triggers section (big rule book pg 32)

After succeeding: These effects are resolved after Step 5, and only if the model with this Trigger wins the duel.

After damaging: These effects happen after Step 5 and only if the target suffers 1 or more damage from the Action.  These effects are resolved before the damaged model is removed if it was killed by the damage.

 

Edited November 27, 2015 by cegorach