GrengisKhan Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 I'm not going to bother repeating everyone's excellent arguments for why we all like the current system, however I feel the following Changes should be made: 1) The season now lasts from 1st Jan-30th November. 2) Increase the field to 20 players.As the scene continues to grow I believe the time is right to increase the number of possible Masters enterants similar to the way the number of attendees required for a 100pt Rankings event was increased at the start of 2015. The reason I've settled on 20 players is twofold. For starters it's very easy to add four additional players to each qualifying group. This does mean that 4 rounds would now have to be played day 1 but if you've made it to masters I assume you can cope with 4 rounds in a single day. The top 2 players in each group would advance go day 2 as usual.The second reason is that I believe more and more players are approaching the quality of play I think represents the Masters and that this increased volume of good players has pushed the marker from top 16 to top 20. 3) The winner of the Masters does not automatically gain entry to next years Masters. I don't think that winning the masters should give you the option of essentially taking a year off. Especially when it comes at the expense of denying another player a space, a player who could've been actively supporting the community, attending events etc. for the 10/11 month season. However I feel that the winner of the GT should automatically get a masters spot. I like the idea that everyone has a chance to get in, no matter how small that chance might be. Greg Piskosz 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psientologist Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 3) The winner of the Masters does not automatically gain entry to next years Masters. I don't think that winning the masters should give you the option of essentially taking a year off. Especially when it comes at the expense of denying another player a space, a player who could've been actively supporting the community, attending events etc. for the 10/11 month season. Already said I like your 20 person idea, regarding the quote. I do like the idea of the master getting a chance to defend their title but what you mention is definitely an issue that can arise.My solution would be current Master gets a slot but only if they have participated in a minimum of 4 events (or more maybe). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProximoCoal Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 20 works for me.Going back to what James Doxey said about the idea of the rankings encouraging people to attend events does make me feel that the master getting a free spot isn't ideal, but I don't have strong views on this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oshova Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 Increase the field to 20 players.As has been said, this leaves 1 player in each group not doing anything for a game. Which isn't ideal... ok, we could organise them to play each other so that they get a game in... Maybe even have those count towards the total scoring games... but I still don't think it's ideal.The winner of the Masters does not automatically gain entry to next years Masters. I think that they should, for the reason of defending the title. So far I don't think there has been a Masters Champion come to an event that hasn't supported the community in the 12 months in between. There was 1 Champion who didn't play any tournaments in between... they didn't come to the Masters, freeing up their space for someone else. Maybe a better solution would be to require them to attend 4 ranking events during the season? (Like Mr Sime said.) That way you are ensuring they are still supporting the community, but also ensuring they get a valid chance at defending their title (which no-one has successfully done yet). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahmaul Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 I think that the champion should definitely be invited back to defend their title, UEFA changed their rules and everything for it! As to groups of five I don't think having to sit out a game is too bad as four in a day can be a bit of a slog so a bit of a break would work well in my opinion and allow for some socialising. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 IMO the issue with 5 player pools is that as players have to play four games each, and sit out a round, so you've actually got to fit five rounds into day one. I'm not against increasing the size of masters when the time is right. Keep in mind though that WFB masters was at 16 players at a time when their player base was many times what ours is now. I'm not sure that we're quite at the active player base size where it's necessarily the right time to push the size of the event up. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProximoCoal Posted December 6, 2015 Report Share Posted December 6, 2015 space for 5 is intense, in fairness 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MariFaux Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 Do we really think 5 games in one day is doable? I don't, 4 games is usually straining enough, and we're there for some kind of social aspect as well. We're looking at 12 hours with breaks here...? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MalifauxMartin Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 (edited) .I'm not convinced that the competitive scene is big enough to warrant 20 players at the masters. Getting to the masters shouldn't be easy. If we extend it, we reduce the prestige and allure of qualifying. Also, if 5 rounds are required in 1 day, that's too many Edited December 7, 2015 by MalifauxMartin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psientologist Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 5 rounds in a day is insanity.You could just drop the group stages and have a cut to top 8, however I can see everyone disliking that idea although it's a fairly common practice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProximoCoal Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 I really enjoy the group stages I would really hate to lose them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soul Puppet Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 As somebody who isn't near the top 16 ranking I've never seen it as an us and them mentality and have never really got the impression that it is. Within my playgroup we've discussed those who are nearer the top and see it as a commitment more than anything. If you want to be ranked in the top 16 then you need to not only be a decent player but you need to play a decent number of events to stay up there....I've played several people in or near the top 16 and had good games against all of them. I don't know if this is substantial evidence but it's pretty good evidence against rankings turning people into douchebags. I played Luke Cocksedge on the top table in the last game of Here Be Dragons at the beginning of this year and we'd not defined a piece of terrain well before the game started and he ruled it in my favour despite the fact it meant me being able to full heal an almost dead McMourning and ultimately we drew meaning I won the tournament on VP Diff. If this isn't a sign of not-douchebaggery (I'm a sociologist, I can make words up!) then I don't know what is. If anything the top 16 players know that they are good and are near the top of most, if not all, events that they play and so the chance to win one tournament isn't the be all and end all. Not sure I completely agree with the first part of this, although I do see some correlation. For me personally, I don't get to anywhere near as many events as I would like to, real life says so! ;0) In fact, not including the Masters themselves, I attended 3 tournaments in 2012, 5 in 2013, 6 in 2014 and 7 in 2015. Next year I expect to be at a maximum of 4. I think you're a good player, our game at Deliverance was the toughest one of the weekend for me. Therefore, I wouldn't be surprised to see your name on a future list of Masters entrants.Anyway, on the second (and more important) part that I've quoted, I'm sure that anecdote about Luke is nonsense, he's a git! ;0) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clousseau Posted December 7, 2015 Report Share Posted December 7, 2015 I still believe that 16 entries for the Masters is the way forward, and not 20, for all the reasons identified. Even if we now have more active tournament players, and the points spread around the cut-off placings is small, it just makes the event the prestigious occasion it should be.Also, in my opinion, the Master should have the chance to defend his title - all part of the occasion. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProximoCoal Posted December 14, 2015 Report Share Posted December 14, 2015 In reply to comments regarding attendance at story encounters: http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/113544-twas-the-night-before-christmas-event/#comment-913709The rankings exist in Scotland. Scotland has some highly ranked players. Still fantastic turnout for their non ranked events. Ergo player demand and not the rankings which has caused lack of support for story encounters. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PotentiallyLethal Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 In reply to comments regarding attendance at story encounters: http://themostexcellentandawesomeforumever-wyrd.com/topic/113544-twas-the-night-before-christmas-event/#comment-913709The rankings exist in Scotland. Scotland has some highly ranked players. Still fantastic turnout for their non ranked events. Ergo player demand and not the rankings which has caused lack of support for story encounters. Connor, why couldn't it be ranked? Wasn't it four rounds of swiss at 50SS?Oh and thanks for finding Scheme 2, was just about to buy another box Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psientologist Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 I think the they weren't straight-up 50ss games, there was a "Krampus" and some other stuff (I wasn't there). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigHammer Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 There was a special "Krampus" model involved that was usually on the side of the attacker (in the first three games of four). The defender got a rather paltry 3 extra stones to make up for this monster (12 wounds, incorporeal Df/Wp 6/8, Spirit, 4/5/7 damage Ml7 attack with 4 triggers inc. crit strike... he was not pleasant to be up against). In addition, there were additional special rules in each scenario unique to the theme. It wasn't suited to ranked play at all, and tweaks were made to certain rules throughout the day in the name of fairness.It was still a lot of fun, though, and very well attended, as Connor points out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProximoCoal Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 It was also based on the the story scenarios from the rule book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PotentiallyLethal Posted December 16, 2015 Report Share Posted December 16, 2015 Ah - I see, we should try and come up with more badges or such for story tournaments.Will think on about this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mythicFOX Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Ah - I see, we should try and come up with more badges or such for story tournaments.Will think on about thisI've a few ideas on that front I'll send you a DM when I've gathered my thoughts. It sounds like the consensus broadly remains for the following;The 2016 season will run 01/01/16 to 30/11/16.Sixteen players will be invited to the 2016 maters, to be held at some point after 30/11/16, probably in Janurary 2017.Invites to be given as follows;No player may receive more than one invite.One invite offered to the reigning 2015 Master, who will be decided at the event in Jaurary 2016One invite offered to the winner of the UK Nationals (aka UKGT) in 2016The remaining invites are to be offered to the highest ranked players who are able to attend, based on the player rankings for UK events held in the 2016 season. Invites to be offered down the rankings until Masters is quorate at sixteen players. Player rankings and their administration are a separate matter to be handled elsewhere. Format etc of the 2016 Masters event to be handled closer to the time. Point one being the key thing which needs to be agreed immanently, Given it mean the new season will effectively start two weeks tomorrow. Any last thoughts? 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProximoCoal Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 I will send badge ideas soon too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psientologist Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 What James said is spot on, I'm not sure anyone is against the full 11 month Rankings calendar.It's simple, tidy and smart.LoEH will be my first event, but I'm fine with it not being the first one on the calendar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonahmaul Posted December 17, 2015 Report Share Posted December 17, 2015 Hmmmm, really tempted to try and make a run at the rankings next year after all the talk. Might be something to aim for. Need more cash though! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldManMyke Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 I'd like to sugget that the winners of the Regional GTs auto qualify for the masters in the same way as the winner of the Nationals do. I feel this will help add to the prestige of the GTs - which are a great thing IMO - and will increase participation which is great for the scene Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProximoCoal Posted January 16, 2016 Report Share Posted January 16, 2016 Makes so many qualify though. I liked the free ticket to the nationals though? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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